Bill Basher Adam Schien at it again...

[Tom]

Anyone hear him today? Still saying Ralph is basically an idiot for his comments on the Collective Bargaining Agreement (where many others have actually supports RW) and killing our Draft again. He's trashing Willis for being on the NFL Total Access show and the 11 veterans not at our OTA (Not that I disagree), Killing our He's also saying that Marv is out of line for his comments in an LA newspaper that Lienhart is a Hollywood QB and he never considered drafting him but he signed Craig Nall, etc.

This guy is an SU grad & has been to Bills games & claims he loves WNY but man, he sure blasts the Bills any chance he gets. He admits to being a Giant fan but I notice he usually glows over every move the Jests make. He's starting to become unlistenable now.

[Bill from NYC]

Anyone hear him today?    Still saying Ralph is basically an idiot for his comments on the Collective Bargaining Agreement (where many others have actually supports RW) and killing our Draft again.  He's trashing Willis for being on the NFL Total Access show and the 11 veterans not at our OTA (Not that I disagree), Killing our  He's also saying that Marv is out of line for his comments in an LA newspaper that Lienhart is a Hollywood QB and he never considered drafting him but he signed Craig Nall, etc.

This guy is an SU grad & has been to Bills games & claims he loves WNY but man, he sure blasts the Bills any chance he gets.  He admits to being a Giant fan but I notice he usually glows over every move the Jests make.   He's starting to become unlistenable now.

698866[/snapback]

 

I am not going to get into each individual comment, but what would you truly expect a football broadcaster to say about the state of the Bills these days? Do you think that recent moves by the Bills, especially the stupid ass draft are worthy of praise?

 

Nobody on this board has more contempt for the jests than do I. They literally sicken me. I actually prefer the dolphins to the jests.

That said, they drafted the top LT and OC in the draft. We in turn wasted 3 of our first 4 picks on defensive backs and gave away an early pick in the process; sheer idiocy.

If you are waiting for a professional football commentator to portray the above act of stupidity as a good thing, I hope that you are a patient man.

[Max997]

Anyone hear him today?    Still saying Ralph is basically an idiot for his comments on the Collective Bargaining Agreement (where many others have actually supports RW) and killing our Draft again.  He's trashing Willis for being on the NFL Total Access show and the 11 veterans not at our OTA (Not that I disagree), Killing our  He's also saying that Marv is out of line for his comments in an LA newspaper that Lienhart is a Hollywood QB and he never considered drafting him but he signed Craig Nall, etc.

This guy is an SU grad & has been to Bills games & claims he loves WNY but man, he sure blasts the Bills any chance he gets.  He admits to being a Giant fan but I notice he usually glows over every move the Jests make.   He's starting to become unlistenable now.

698866[/snapback]

 

 

I actually agree with everything he is saying...this team is in disarray, they wont sniff the playoffs until they have a new owner and front office. The only thing that Marv has shown me as GM is that he is in completely over his head

[BuffOrange]

Well it's pretty rare that I agree with everyone in a thread but:

A) Yes, Adam Schein sucks.

B) Yes, the Bills suck.

[SilverNRed]

Who's Adam Schien?

[Dibs]

I actually agree with everything he is saying...this team is in disarray, they wont sniff the playoffs until they have a new owner and front office. The only thing that Marv has shown me as GM is that he is in completely over his head

698891[/snapback]

Wow, way to be negative.

The only way we will know if Marv is in over his head is by waiting a couple of years to see how his team is formulating & developing.

There is no question that his first draft went counter to what most thought it should but it has been shown subsequently that there was a definite method to the supposed 'madness'.

 

I can understand people giving up on TD since he had 5 years to implement his plan & it came to nothing.

I can't understand people giving up on Marv before the team has even had one snap.

Just because people in power might make descissions that you disagree with, it does not mean that they are wrong. It might simply mean they are different.

[ExWNYer]

Anyone hear him today?    Still saying Ralph is basically an idiot for his comments on the Collective Bargaining Agreement (where many others have actually supports RW) and killing our Draft again.  He's trashing Willis for being on the NFL Total Access show and the 11 veterans not at our OTA (Not that I disagree), Killing our  He's also saying that Marv is out of line for his comments in an LA newspaper that Lienhart is a Hollywood QB and he never considered drafting him but he signed Craig Nall, etc.

This guy is an SU grad & has been to Bills games & claims he loves WNY but man, he sure blasts the Bills any chance he gets.  He admits to being a Giant fan but I notice he usually glows over every move the Jests make.  He's starting to become unlistenable now.

698866[/snapback]

 

I've been saying that about this guy for quite some time now. Analysis is one thing but he goes out of his way to slam the Bills about everything. He seems to be overly pissed off that the Bills did not draft for "value". What does he care? He's a fugging Giants fan. When was he ever a scout or GM of an NFL club?? His "value" is about as meaningful as Kiper's and the other self-proclaimed "draft experts" who have never worked in the NFL. Nobody will truly know how the Bills or any other team did for three or four years, at least. Whether or not you agree with how the Bills drafted, saying that they had a horrible draft before there is any empirical evidence of such is asinine. Seems to me that many of these same experts were crucifying the Colts for taking Peyton Manning over Ryan Leaf and we all know how that turned out. Schein's a blowhard with a horrible voice for radio. I don't much care for his takes on non-Bills related issues either. In a word, he's an ass.

FWIW...another Sirius NFL Radio guy, Pat Kirwin, said that he liked the job that Marv and the Bills did. He's a former defensive assistant coach, assistant pro personnel director and director of player administration. He also managed a salary cap, negotiated player contracts and trades, and evaluated pro and college personnel. Again, time will tell how the Bills did.

BTW...I hope Schein enjoys Rob Johnson as Eli Manning's backup!

[Max997]

Wow, way to be negative.

The only way we will know if Marv is in over his head is by waiting a couple of years to see how his team is formulating & developing. 

There is no question that his first draft went counter to what most thought it should but it has been shown subsequently that there was a definite method to the supposed 'madness'.

 

I can understand people giving up on TD since he had 5 years to implement his plan & it came to nothing.

I can't understand people giving up on Marv before the team has even had one snap. 

Just because people in power might make descissions that you disagree with, it does not mean that they are wrong.  It might simply mean they are different.

698995[/snapback]

 

 

its being realistic not negative

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

its being realistic not negative

699068[/snapback]

 

 

Obsessive, consistent pessimism is not realism, it is clinical depression.

[Max997]

Obsessive, consistent pessimism is not realism, it is clinical depression.

699070[/snapback]

 

 

its being realistic about the Bills and their chances

 

where is the cause for optimism? is it in the players Marv has signed? NO

Is it in the players Marv drafted? They might turn out to be good players but he did not draft a single impact player

 

Where is the optimism for the O-line? and D-line?

what about QB? and now WR is big question mark on this team

 

where is the optimism from RW? not getting any from all the moaning he's doing

 

what is the direction of this team? to consistantly sign backup players because they are so called high character guys or go into the draft with a closed mind and no plan B

 

 

I am realistic, I dont see this team going anywhere until some major changes are made and that wont happen until they have a new owner which would also mean a new front office.....ever think you're the one not being realistic

[bleedinblue]

I am realistic, I dont see this team going anywhere until some major changes are made and that wont happen until they have a new owner which would also mean a new front office.....ever think you're the one not being realistic

699092[/snapback]

A new owner means this team will be someplace else. This is a new front office made up of solid football people and they deserve their chance. RW is dead on right about the CBA and more and more owners are coming to realize it. The draft was solid and both 1st rounders will contribute, "impact" players from a draft are few and far between. Though not with the big names many would like to see, substantial improvement has been made on both lines (Fowler, Triplett, Reyes). Though I would agree that the Bill's are a long ways from being a contender, I think there is a definite direction and identity being developed. I just hope that it comes together before a small group of greedy owners who lack the slightest bit of foresight destroy the game.

[BobbyC81]

Wow, way to be negative.

The only way we will know if Marv is in over his head is by waiting a couple of years to see how his team is formulating & developing. 

There is no question that his first draft went counter to what most thought it should but it has been shown subsequently that there was a definite method to the supposed 'madness'.

 

I can understand people giving up on TD since he had 5 years to implement his plan & it came to nothing.

I can't understand people giving up on Marv before the team has even had one snap. 

Just because people in power might make descissions that you disagree with, it does not mean that they are wrong.  It might simply mean they are different.

698995[/snapback]

 

Will he have a couple years?? He's taken on a very stressful position. We don't know how he'll handle it.

 

Despite the questionable moves that make Marv and this franchise a laughing stock throughout the country, I'm willing to give Marv the benfit of the doubt until proven differently.

 

Now, if after a couple years: the team is losing heavily, Jauron has proven to be the wrong choice as head coach, Whitner is a bust and is cut, the O-line still stinks, the QB position is still lousy, the defense can't stop anyone and it's mainly due to DT play, then I'd give him heavy criticism.

 

One aspect of the hiring of Marv as GM that doesn't bode well for the future is that there doesn't seem to be an heir apparent. If a team brought in a Bill Walsh with a lot of experience and success and had a young guy that he could groom, he could leave the team in a good position.

 

Marv is learning this position on the job. No matter how good he does, I can't see him doing it for very long. So, you have Modrak as the assistant GM and he's in his 60's. When TD was fired, either Ralph didn't think Modrak could do the job or Modrak has made it known he doesn't want the responsibility. Who does that leave??

 

Jim Overdorf is the VP of Football Administration and is in his 40's but he's a business guy, who's handling things like contract negotiations and the salary cap. Could he learn the football side?? Sure. Could he be successful with it?? Possibly.

 

Hopefully the Bills "brain trust" has this aspect covered with a succession plan or it could be back to square one again in a couple years.

[Pyrite Gal]

, especially the stupid ass draft are worthy of praise?

 

698884[/snapback]

 

Do you mean the 2006 Draft, Bills drafting since the early 90s, TDs drafts or what?

 

1. If he (and or you) are refering to the 06 draft, Shein's comments are old and boring but appropriate. We are fortunately beyond the draft debatable (because reality will prove them to mostly be incorrect) claims of value and into reality here players truly demonstrate their worth.

 

Shein's comments are old because when the players take the field in a scheme developed by Jauron et al, we will begin to see with a real conclusion being made in about three years what the truth is. Shein's comments are appropriate though because he is a commentator and not a journalist. A journalist (or real newsperson) should have some sense of objective presentation while a commentator is there to have opinions even though many of them wil be proven wrong.

 

There is a logic to what the Bills did in this draft and we will find out probably rather quickly whether it is as stupid as the namecallers claim it is. If this draft was so badgiven that the Bills clrarly were looking for an immediate starter at SS and an immediate contributor at DT we will know soon enough how we did.

 

2, If the reference is to Bills drafting since the early 90s, clearly the last 10 years have produced no HOF candidates while the previous ten years produced several (Bruce, Kelly, Thomas, Reed) Part of this was the team picking in the top 10 twice (Ruben is no HOFer but the consecutive Pro Bowls make this a pick that worked and MW was a total bust). Yet overall, the odd virtually complete failure of a number of #2 picks and the failure of second day picks (besides McGee) to do much is part of this downturn. yet, I wouldn't say this downturn is more than a bad pain rather than an implosion, If anything it is an effect of the real implosion which is the horrible relationship between the team owner and his main minions since Marv deserved and got the boot (Butler shined on Ralph and left town, Wade got canned an arbitrated by Ralph, Ralph quickly hired the experienced but battered by his firing into fearful decisions TD, TD hired the not ready for HC GW, then TD hired MM who quit when TD deservedly gotcanned). Good commentary would have focused on this record of failed relationships at the base rather than nitpicked at the draft which is effect and not cause.

 

3. I still have yet to see any objectively based demonstration of a bad record of drafting by TD. I think people make the mistake of assuming that because TD does have an objectiely bad record of W?Ls and not making the playoffs in his tenure (this is a demonstrably horrendous record he deserved to be fired for) that the cause of this must have been his bad drafting.

 

Wrong!

 

His bad record and bad production was apparent in his first three years and he actually oversaw a fairly good draft in 2001. Its hard to accurately assess a draft before three years and already the hand-writing was on the wall because TD had already made hi first and horrendous blunder of hiring GW and not genral managing this team to win and make the playoffs, but instead to make sure he was not fired by a guy h hired.

 

IMHO, this all goes back to us fans placing far too much emphasis on the draft as the key to building a team. It is important but at best is simply a part.

 

The ironu here is that overall, i woul rank TDs draft management as:

 

1. 2001- Very good- He picked 2 Pro Bowl recognized players in Henry and Clements and also got a DE who was worth extending. He picked a number of players who contributed to a bad team ravaged by cap hell. The draft was not a great one as there were no potential HOF candidates selected. However, if you told me that 5 years out we would have two players stil in the squad, one of whom resigned long-term, anotherwho most feel merited a franchise designation and a thrid who you got with a first day pick from trading the other Pro Bowler who then got suspended for substance abuse on his new team, I'd say OK.

 

2. 2002- Horrendous- Shades of Butlers last draft for us.

 

3. 2003- At the edge of drawing rational conclusions. TD' effprts actually saw some innovative use of the draft:

 

1. trading the first for a vet QB the year efore to replace RJ after the RJ/Flutie debacle was a great business move which worked out about as well as could be demanded in 2002 and Bledsoe's arrival (as seen by the raucous Welcome Drew event) really totally changed (breifly) the QBs role in fan feelings for their team after a 3-13 season. His 2002 play on the field bore this out as he deservedly hot a reserve Pro Bowl nod for his play (if you disagree then say which AFC QBs deserved tghe reserve nod more) and most important helped lead the team to an 8-8 finish which was the second largest W improvement in a single season in NFL history.

 

2. The trade of our first in the 2003 draft was made a wash at best though by Bledsoe's horrendoua 2003 which I think he deserved to be cut for. It can easily though be judged a wash as our lack of a first was a big part of TD taking the risk to replace the 1st by tagging Peerless and insisting on a 1st for him from AT. This 1st turned into McGahee. While it is undeniably true and significant that he is the fastest Bills RB to gain 2000 yards rushing the jury is still out on him because of his downturn at the end of last season as the Bills totally imploded (and also due to some questionable off field comments by him about "baby momma" which are irrelevant to football on the field right now but clearly is an issue to watch to see if they move into relevance later.

 

Overall, though it is still a year too early to draw rational conclusions, this draft result bodes well as not only did WM's injury allow us to get a player regarded as a top 5 talent prior to his injury at pick #23 (again the 2001 pick of Henry pays benefits as his prescence made it possible to sit WM for the year he needed to recover into a starting RB for us), but already #3 pick Crowell deserved and got extended, second day pick McGee made the Pro Bowl. and even 7th rounder Haggan got extended due to his ST play and to backstop the fact TKO got injured. Only flyer Sobieski (a talented njury player) is a gone from this draft that will almost certainly be judged to be a good effort) and if WM is utilized and performs well catching the ball, there is an outside chance this may be judged a great draft year.

 

2004- Too early to tell with by my sense 2 of these 6 being gone by opening day. Yet. Evans will be the #1 WR (we will see if he plays like one though his first two years were very good) and Losman was slotted in as starting QB before he deserved to be. No one can reasonably be said to be confident or even optimistic he will prove to work out. however, it would be both bad business and bad football to write him off before this season.

 

2005- TDs last draft overseen is way too early to draw rational conclusions, but fan optimism about half of the three players drafted (Parrish, Prestron, King) is not unwarranted. The injured Parrish did not set the world on fire last year, but this second round choice eventually showed some of the moves that excited folks about him and showed no negative signs like the droppsies which hit Reed after some initial excitement about his rookie output. There are real world examples of players of his current profile both really blossoming their second year or oing an el foldo.

 

Preston was probably the most accomplished of the 05 choices as he made the starting lime-up toward the end of the season due to Villarial injury and was generally felt to have accirded himself well as most second day picks are not even up to starting a game their first year.

 

King also showd some good signs and in this DB prospect laden team is second on the depth chart and will take on Greer for a legitimate (though still unlikely) shot at being the nickel this year.

 

The irony here is that i think many fans becajse of the too lsrge importance they assign to the draft (again it is important, but judt not that important... my guess is that there are always a couple of players on any team you can point to among their players whom they acquired by the draft and inflate that into a claim they were built by the draft, but likewise I'm sure there are also great players who acquired as high level or mid level FAs, through trades or as UDFAs who are pivotal players. Just as it would be silly to claim they were FA driven by holding up a couple of examples, it is not corrext to claim they were draft driven by siting a few examples).

 

The numbers are what the numbers are. On average a team will acquire about 8 palyers from a given draft and this is a pretty small part of the total 53 man roster

 

Even if you tried to use time to build the number of draft acquisitions to roughly 24 over three years (the length of time it tales to reasonably assess a draft, still less than half the rosters spots in the last three years were draft acquisitions and in addition to adding more acquistions one must also take the cuts into account (again for example but not proof since we had a bad team, only 2 of the 12 draftees from 2001 on the roster and only 3 of the 10 2002 draftees are on the roster).

 

Folks try to make the claim that we are bad because we do not resign players (does anyone want to claim that bad starter ron Edwards, drug abuser Travis Henry or the injury prone Jonas Jennings should have been given big bucks). There is a better case to be made not that the Bills should resign youngsters but that they should pick better players (well duhh).

 

However, even this contention ignores the fact that the draft is a crapshoot. Actually in 2001 as Bills still have through negotiation and use of the franchise tag their top two picks on the roster and traded away another first day selection for a third rounder turned in Yobouty, the yield of two Pro Bowl selections and two good players and a BAP pick this year as not a bad outcome or one outrageously below what the draft yields for a good team.

 

Actually, bad drafting strikes me as more signficant as a sign of the real mistakes of the TD era mishiring his HC and the resulting staff rather assigning blame to the effects rather than the cause of this problem.

[eball]

its being realistic about the Bills and their chances

 

where is the cause for optimism? is it in the players Marv has signed? NO

Is it in the players Marv drafted? They might turn out to be good players but he did not draft a single impact player

 

Where is the optimism for the O-line? and D-line?

what about QB? and now WR is big question mark on this team

 

where is the optimism from RW? not getting any from all the moaning he's doing

 

what is the direction of this team? to consistantly sign backup players because they are so called high character guys or go into the draft with a closed mind and no plan B

I am realistic, I dont see this team going anywhere until some major changes are made and that wont happen until they have a new owner which would also mean a new front office.....ever think you're the one not being realistic

699092[/snapback]

Hey Max, don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya...what the hell are you doing here anyway?

 

Thanks for the "realistic" outlook on the Bills; we'll do just fine rooting for our team without ninnies like you around. This will be my first and last response to a post of yours.

 

A starting SS in the 1st round of the draft is not an "impact" player? How about a starter on the D-line in free agency, as well as a starting OG and OC?

 

You're a moron. You don't have to believe the Bills are headed in the right direction if you don't want to, and God knows they have a long way to climb, but you are the absolute worst kind of "fan" there is.

 

Consider yourself "ignored" from this point forward.

[Dibs]

...we'll do just fine rooting for our team without ninnies like you around.

699140[/snapback]

 

Tee hee. He said ninnies.

[Tom]

its being realistic about the Bills and their chances

Realistic or just plain Negative?

The Bills are clearly rebuilding and I don't expect them making the playoffs but the front office is building with character which should transcend to a better performance on the field. I fully expect an improvement over last year.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

its being realistic about the Bills and their chances

 

where is the cause for optimism? is it in the players Marv has signed? NO

Is it in the players Marv drafted? They might turn out to be good players but he did not draft a single impact player

 

Where is the optimism for the O-line? and D-line?

what about QB? and now WR is big question mark on this team

 

where is the optimism from RW? not getting any from all the moaning he's doing

 

what is the direction of this team? to consistantly sign backup players because they are so called high character guys or go into the draft with a closed mind and no plan B

I am realistic, I dont see this team going anywhere until some major changes are made and that wont happen until they have a new owner which would also mean a new front office.....ever think you're the one not being realistic

699092[/snapback]

 

 

I have never claimed to be "realistic" when it comes to the Bills. Personally, I think the use of such a term makes no sense when dealing with a voluntary activity in which we invest emotions in a bunch of glandular freaks in Halloween costumes who could care less about us. I love watching football; I laugh and cry when the Bills win and cry bitter tears when they lose. I am a lifelong fan. But I try to remember that there are far too many real problems in the world to waste my time being "realistic" as I visit the toy department of life that is professional sports.

[Lori]

Obsessive, consistent pessimism is not realism, it is clinical depression.

699070[/snapback]

Great line. Mind if I borrow it for a while?

[Dibs]

I have never claimed to be "realistic" when it comes to the Bills. Personally, I think the use of such a term makes no sense when dealing with a voluntary activity in which we invest emotions in a bunch of glandular freaks in Halloween costumes who could care less about us. I love watching football; I laugh and cry when the Bills win and cry bitter tears when they lose. I am a lifelong fan. But I try to remember that there are far too many real problems in the world to waste my time being "realistic" as I visit the toy department of life that is professional sports.

699243[/snapback]

Bravo. Well said.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Great line. Mind if I borrow it for a while?

699330[/snapback]

 

 

 

Lori, I am honored to provide your sig line.