Most NFL teams are lacking with their QB depth.

[Tipster19]

Outside of maybe 4 or 5 starting QBs, the rest of the league really don't have dominate starters. To compound this position even further is what the teams have as back-ups. While we may not have a clearcut starter or a bonafide star at this position, I will state that I think that we have at least 2, if not all 3, QBs that are comparable in their abilities. This situation could be viewed either as the glass half empty or being half full. If our starter does go down then the production shouldn't suffer too greatly with our back-up filling in. Alot of the teams around the league either have a superstar with barely an adequate back-up or just a run of the mill starter with not much of a back-up to speak of. If the Bills can play within their means and not count too heavily on our QB then we should be pretty consistent with our QB roster's production. I think that it's better to have a consistent line up than to have an average QB with not much of a back-up. Now of course if one of our QBs can step up and shock us and the world and suddenly come out of the ether and become a superstar, then that would only sweeten the season. Go Bills!

[cantankerous]

We have the worst quarterback in the NFL...who are you trying to convince? At best we have a starter that's supposed to be a back-up. C'mon.

[Tipster19]

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or serious but I think that we are going to be ALOT better at this position than what people are expecting. I don't know if it's going to be Losman or Nall, but I do believe that one of them WILL step up and be a pretty decent QB. Holcomb on the other hand is just going to be a fill in. Let all the bashing and doubting continue but I will remind you later in the season that we were going to be alright in this area.

[cantankerous]

I'm talking about Losman...I know nothing about Nall so I can't comment on him...My gut tells me Losman will stink up the place again, and constantly look like a spazzzzzz and over throw his receivers like he did last year. Let's all hope my gut is lying...maybe it's all that taco bell I just ate.

[Tipster19]

Maybe this will help settle your stomach. Here's a little excerpt from KFFL.

 

J.P. Losman had perhaps his best day this offseason in the new system. He made some solid reads, particularly on some hot reads and was accurate with his passes in 7-on-7 and in team work.

 

 

I hope you feel better.

[cantankerous]

Wow, he had a good practice...we're saved!!!!!!!!!

 

I don't feel any better, in fact I think i'll go take a Rob Johnson.

 

EDIT: for those who don't know, taking a Rob Johnson = taking a sh--.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

While I personally feel JP Losman will never be a success, I didnt like him coming out of college and was especially not enthralled that we traded numerous picks to acquire him, now that he's here I chose to look at the bright side. At his current rate he'll be kyle boller v2, and hopefully with a strong enough running game and solid defense we can overcome bad qb play and be competative.

 

At his best he's jake plummer v2, and hopefully with a strong running game he'll be able to make plays while passing but never be forced into a position where he has to outright win games and our run game and defense can carry us into the playoffs. Hopefully it's somewhere in scenairo B.

[Fla Bills Fan]

I'm with you Tipster, last year was JP's 1st as he redshirted his rookie year due to injury. He looked like a rookie, sometimes good, sometimes not so much. I look for him to hit his stride this year. Some of the IDIOTS on this board would have been glad to be rid of Favre or P Manning had they played their rookie year for us.

[Coach Tuesday]

Most teams have a clear-cut starter...

[BuffOrange]

We have the worst quarterback in the NFL...who are you trying to convince? At best we have a starter that's supposed to be a back-up. C'mon.

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I bet he was saying this same stuff in 1997.

[stinky finger]

EDIT: for those who don't know, taking a Rob Johnson = taking a sh--.

696833[/snapback]

Thanks for elaborating........cantankerous for brains.

[apuszczalowski]

Right now Buffalo has 3 mediocre to good QB's on their roster, while most teams have one solid starter, and a mediocre at best QB to back the starter up.

 

Buffalo (as of right now) do not have a QB that can outright win them games, but are decent enough to be considered a starter and not much of a drop off in Quality to the Back up. To compare, What Buffalo lacks in starting QB, they make up for in depth at 2nd and 3rd string QB.

[DE Bills Fan]

Outside of maybe 4 or 5 starting QBs, the rest of the league really don't have dominate starters. To compound this position even further is what the teams have as back-ups. While we may not have a clearcut starter or a bonafide star at this position, I will state that I think that we have at least 2, if not all 3, QBs that are comparable in their abilities. This situation could be viewed either as the glass half empty or being half full. If our starter does go down then the production shouldn't suffer too greatly with our back-up filling in. Alot of the teams around the league either have a superstar with barely an adequate back-up or just a run of the mill starter with not much of a back-up to speak of. If the Bills can play within their means and not count too heavily on our QB then we should be pretty consistent with our QB roster's production. I think that it's better to have a consistent line up than to have an average QB with not much of a back-up. Now of course if one of our QBs can step up and shock us and the world and suddenly come out of the ether and become a superstar, then that would only sweeten the season. Go Bills!

696809[/snapback]

The Bills have the worst QB situation in the league. Let's see a 1st round draft pick who looks lost, a journeyman QB who is, at best OK, but onlt periodically and a #3 QB from another team who may win the starting position. pathetic, just pathetic!!!

[ans4e64]

I'm talking about Losman...I know nothing about Nall so I can't comment on him...My gut tells me Losman will stink up the place again, and constantly look  like a spazzzzzz and over throw his receivers like he did last year. Let's all hope my gut is lying...maybe it's all that taco bell I just ate.

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thats why i stick with mighty taco

[Pyrite Gal]

Right now Buffalo has 3 mediocre to good QB's on their roster, while most teams have one solid starter, and a mediocre at best QB to back the starter up.

 

Buffalo (as of right now) do not have a QB that can outright win them games, but are decent enough to be considered a starter and not much of a drop off in Quality to the Back up. To compare, What Buffalo lacks in starting QB, they make up for in depth at 2nd and 3rd string QB.

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I'm curious what you judge as being a solid starter?

 

By my judgment, about a third of the teams in the NFL have what I consider to be a solid starting QB, The rest IMHO (including the Bills) have a troubled situation with their starting QB that runs the gamut from hopeful to quite doubtful regarding their QB prospects.

 

This is an interesting question so I hope I find the time over the next few days to look at this with some specificity. However, mostly through strength of numbers I would put the Bills much more toward the hopeful.

 

Just as an off-hand example without having examined this with the detail needed to make a very good argument, a few examples of my judgments are:

 

1. Skins- Starter Mark Brunell finished with not a bad QB ratin last year, but given that they have none other than Todd Collins and a rookie behind him, this strikes me as a troubled situation at best which given Brunell's mileage and history of injury and the not ready at all to start talent behind him. One can be charitable and reasonably give the team the benefit of the doubt here as they did crawl into the playoffs last year, but even if one has enough grace to call Brunell a solid starter you would reasonably call this a troubled situation and have real doubts about their QB play being even adequate in 2006.

 

2. Chicago- I do not think there is anyway one can describe this 2005 playoff team as having a solid starter at QB. Rex Grossman is the best performer they got and he has been a victim of so many serious injuries as a player one has to put them in the doubtful category. Fortunately for them, having a solid QB is not a "must-have" to proviude a slot in the playoffs and make it a successful season, but the more mediocre your QB the better your D needs to be.

 

3. Tampa Bay- Here is yet another 05 playoff team where one at least flirts with and probably goes over the line calling him a solif starter. His QB rating (a very flawed statistical measure of QB performance but the best QB stat around) was at about the 80 level which in some folks minds divides th adequate from the inadequate, but if you play TB an opponent is looking elsewhere to stop this team than focusing on Simms who I think one can onky call solid if you give him credit for making the playoffs which other stars on this team carried him to,

 

Will the Bills make the playoffs in '06? Very doubtful.

 

Will any of the 3 Bills who might become the starter have a successful season? Doubtful also any of these individual wiil.

 

Will the Bills have a successful player at QB in 06. The asnwer could well be no, but I think the answer is probably yes.

 

In my sense the odds for the individuals are these:

 

1. Holcomb- I would put the chances of him being a successful starter at no higher than 25%. However, I give him this 1 out of 4 shot at producing a QB rating in the upper half of the NFL and leading the team to at least a reasonable shot at the playoffs though i doubt they make it (remember in '04 even that team led by Bledsoe came within a game and posted a winning record. Jauron would have to ptoduce the same D results he had when he was NFL Coach of the Year with Chicago a few years ago. While no one will get rich banking on this team being a defensive juggernaut, one would also be silly to totally say it is impossible that this team which will bring back a reinforced core of a D which finished second statistically in the NFL year before last wil not post impressive results this year.

 

If Jauron finds a way to produce good results from this Cover 2 unit with undersized DTs (going by the traditional run stopping model), Holcomb could make some noise leading this team. He has produced as a playoff QB episodically in his career and he now has even more expeerience which allows him to get mileage out of mundane performance in a Brad Johnson like way.

 

2. Nall- I would put his chances at having a productive season as starter at no more than 10%. However, he has been watching Brett Favre for a while which has to help in the book knowledge area. In addition, with the brief performances he got backing up Favre he actually was quite productive on the field.

 

Finally, the Bills braintrust saw something in him they liked a lot and even though I give him a slim chance of working it out, it is possible.

 

 

3. JP- I know some TSW folks have written him off and it is quite true he has not produced as a QB in his truncated by injury rookie year or running the D until he was benched first full season. However writing him off now and acknowledging how stinky his 05 play was are two very different things. While in no way making a claim JP is the equivalent of Favre or Young, the lessons of reality have simply been taught about jettisoning a QB too early.

 

JP was a ballsy productive stud running for his life at Tulane. Between those accomplishments (which were no guarantee he could be an adequste Pro QB) TD at least was smart enough to see that Bledsoe could not be counted upon to do the job and that the 2005 drafts had little offer at QB. His mistake was promoting JP to starter since he was so frustrated with Bledsoe (whom he was mistaken to extend).

 

I was impressed with JPs initial pre-season work as a rookie til hhe got injured (where not you and if not what problems do you point to).

 

I was impressed with the continual improvement in JPs performance that season after MM taught him a valuable lesson (if you put on the uniform be prepared to play) by throwing him to the wolves to mop up against NE and in future mop=ups he improved from being garbage to being quite impressive by the end of /04.

 

I thought he sucked last year even despite flashes of brilliance as in pre-season and in the first quarter of the Miami game.

 

He may have been ruined in terms of development by operating within a virtually totally dysfunctional O and team last year, but to write him off at this point would judt be silly.

 

I think he has the same real talents he had coming out of college, and I give him a 1 ot of 3 chance at being productive this year.

 

Now if (and its probably a big IF) the Bills braintrust is smart enough and strong enough to let this be decided on the field, rather than make the same fatal mistakes Butler made with promoting TC, spening on Hobert, and pre-maturely giving a bonus to RJ, or the mistake TD made of extending Bledsoe after a horrendous season and then promoting JP who had not taken the job on the field, then the Bills can actually add together the chances of these three players to compute their chances for finding a successful QB in 06,

 

I think a 10% chance for Nall, a 25% chace for Holcomb, and a 33% chance for JP adds up to well over a 60% chance the Bills will find a successful QB from one of these three. The key will be for the braintrust to have the smart and the strength to let this play out on the field.

 

I like these chances much better than I do those of the three teams I mentioned above.

 

So I agree that about 2/3 of NFL teams are troubled at the QB position and sheerly through strength of numbers of each of these men being doubtful to work out, but in reality someone can step up. I'd go with us as QB. The more critical issue for this team getting Ws will be wether the ST maintains its good production (quite likely I think as Marv et al will make it an evern higher focus than MM) AND the D is productive (maybe it will be as a former NFL coach of the year with defensive chops has probabbly forgotten more than you orI remember about NFLs Ds. However, I do not see how we will get it done.

 

However, I watch the game every weekend because I am surprised every weekend and am not a legend in my own mind (depsite the length of my posts) who thinks he knows it all.

[stuckincincy]

...and am not a legend in my own mind (depsite the length of my posts) who thinks he knows it all.

697398[/snapback]

 

 

Never got that impression. Your commentary is useful and appreciated.

[Bill from NYC]

Never got that impression. Your commentary is useful and appreciated.

697403[/snapback]

 

I second that. I get the feeling that my posts drive PG nuts, but I have appreciated his for many years.

[cantankerous]

Thanks for elaborating........cantankerous for brains.

697031[/snapback]

 

 

Now now, was that necessary billsoverdue? No need for such bitterness...Let me guess, you're a JP Losman lover upset that I said he sucks?

[Tipster19]

I brought up the subject because when I look at the other teams' rosters I think that they have potential holes also. When a play-off team like Cincinnati has a superstar with a VERY serious injury and then has back-ups like Anthony Wright, Doug Johnson and now the recently signed Dave Ragone, it makes you wonder how little talent is available on the open market. I would put our 3 QBs against those 3 and think that we're more than comparable than one would think. Granted we don't have the superstar like Palmer but I think that we have more depth at the WR position which should help our QB's production. If we are emmulating Chicago's scheme than it will only make our offense less dependent on the QB. We have one of the best, if not the best, STs, good to great depth at the WR position, a suddenly very fast and competent defense, a unpredictable O-Line and a somewhat premiere RB with a decent back-up or two. No, I'm not so concerned with our QB as much as I'm curious on how well our O-Line will do. If the O-Line turns out to be decent to good, then all the more the QB should fare pretty good in our offensive scheme. Though we may still have holes to fill I don't think that they are as big as other teams are or could be. Of course this is just my opinion.

 

If the QB position is as important as some on this board make it sound than wouldn't you think that someone like Kerry Collins should be able to command big dollars as a FA? What's up with him still being unsigned? Because in the last few years concessions or compromises have been made at this position. We may not be great at this position but I do believe with right scheme that we will be consistent and solid in our play. If we are to spend any more money this year, than let it be spent on our O-Line, DT position and the LB corp.

[Pyrite Gal]

Because in the last few years concessions or compromises have been made at this position. We may not be great at this position but I do believe with right scheme that we will be consistent and solid in our play.

697533[/snapback]

 

Rather than describing the work on QB the last few years (since the beginning of the end of the Jimbo era) rather than describing the actions as concessions and compromises, I would describe them as a over focus on what turned out to be a futile search to find the next Jimbo.

 

One might accurately describe the bad players as compromises but I think our problem has been that there has been such a panicked effort to find the next Jimbo that the misallocation of resources to this search has damaged our ability to build a winning TEAM.

 

Specifically the over0allocation has beenL

 

1. Ralph himself led the charge by for whatever reason calculating that Kelly would last far longer than he did. He promised to reward Kelly in his next contract only to have Jimbo forced into retirement so there was no next contract (Ralph omly miscalculated by a few years). The truth of this was seem in that he had to pay Jimbo a million bucks walking away money. Fortunately, it did not count against the cap, but I do wonder if this transgression is behind him not getting into the HOF and it clearly set the tone of QB panic on this team.

 

2. Butler himself miscalculated badly how long Jimbo would last as I was surprised the Bills did not pick or acquire an heir apparent at QB in 1994. Instead they reached and spent a 2nd on Todd Collins the next year as the handwriting was clearly on the wall and then rushed him into starting before his happy feet were trained out of him (oif they ever could be).

 

3. Butler then added insult to injury by trading a 3rd for the idiot Billy Joe Hobert.

 

4. I'm not sure what it is that you add to the insult after injury, but the Bills did go back on their word to Flutie by giving the job to RJ, signing him to a huge bonus before he proved himself on the field (I think it would have been fine for the Bills to pay him a few extra millions if they had at least waited through pre-season and actually part of the way through the regular season before signing him to the big bucks. Even though there is some risk it only took a few games before it was clear JP was prone to injury, but we had already panicked. When Flutie actually performed as our scouts expected, we then were forced to sign him long term to pro rate the payments. Even with this move we had to cut experienced ST guys and the result was young Porter did not stay in his lane and the Home-Run Throw up occured.

 

5. As in the case of the scouts correctly prediciting Flutie's play, i do not think it was a bad move for TD to get Bledose (the alternatives were Chris Chandler and Jeff Blake). His 2002 season where he got a legitimate Pro Bowl reserve designation (if you disagree than simply name the AFC QBs more deserving of the reserve honor that year) shows this was a good move. The acquisition of a replacement 1st the next year was outstanding. However the same infection bit TD and he panicked and instead of cutting Bledsoe after a horredous 2003 on the field he extended him.

 

His adding insult to injury was that he then handed the starting job to JP who had done nothing on the field to deserve it.

 

the fact is rather than concessions and compromises the Bills have a continous history which stems from Ralph of over allocation and mis focus on the QB psotion.