All these "Bills leaving" news stories

[PromoTheRobot]

All the press that Ralph Wilson has received, pro or con, is an interesting study of "spin." The truth is never simple. You can make a story go anyway you want, just by asking the right questions.

 

Take the recent Ch.2 story for instance:

http://www.wgrz.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=38205

 

The reporter asks: "Is Ralph Wilson losing money?" The guest answers no.

"How much money are the Bills making now?" Answer: about $36mil a year.

"How like are the Bills to move in the next few years?" Not likely.

 

Now we're all set up to think that Ralph is crying wolf. That this whole mess is in his imagination.

 

But what question DIDN'T get asked? "Are the Bills still profitable when the salary cap goes up $10mil? $20mil? $40mil?" I hear what Ralph is saying. I can't believe no one else gets it.

 

He's saying the Bills are okay now, but not down the road if things don't get fixed. It's like Ralph asking to have a sprinkler system installed in a building, but everyone says "Why? I don't see a fire!" Ralph wants to keep the Bills safe before the fire rages out of control.

 

But sometimes facts get in the way of a good story.

 

PTR

[Niagara Bill]

I can live with the 4 hour rule for tailgating because I love football and the Bills

I can live with the ticket price increases because I love football and the Bills

I can live with Moulds and his mouth and Flutie Flakes because I love football and the Bills

I can live with players from the "U" and their arrogance because I love football and the Bills

I can stand bad teams because I love football and the Bills

I can stand bad coaches because I love football and the Bills

I can stand bad General Managers because I love football and the Bills

The only thing that would make me give up my season tickets is this constant threat of leaving.

Ralph, if you are going....then FFSake go...if not STFU (shut the F... up)

Move in the middle of the night..whatever...

Ursay was right, Model was right...just do it or shut up.

 

This is my view on this matter....and all the news guys who try to make a living on speculating on the subject STFU...I refuse to be their pawn in this game

 

Go Bills...I mean stay Bills, I mean..."Go Bills"

[Lori]

But what question DIDN'T get asked?  "Are the Bills still profitable when the salary cap goes up $10mil?  $20mil?  $40mil?"  I hear what Ralph is saying.  I can't believe no one else gets it. 

 

He's saying the Bills are okay now, but not down the road if things don't get fixed. It's like Ralph asking to have a sprinkler system installed in a building, but everyone says "Why?  I don't see a fire!"  Ralph wants to keep the Bills safe before the fire rages out of control.

 

But sometimes facts get in the way of a good story.

 

PTR

696787[/snapback]

Right on. What's the standard stock-market disclaimer? Something like, "Past performance does not guarantee future results."

[Bob Lamb]

All the press that Ralph Wilson has received, pro or con, is an interesting study of "spin."  The truth is never simple.  You can make a story go anyway you want, just by asking the right questions.

 

Take the recent Ch.2 story for instance:

http://www.wgrz.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=38205

 

The reporter asks: "Is Ralph Wilson losing money?"  The guest answers no.

"How much money are the Bills making now?"  Answer: about $36mil a year.

"How like are the Bills to move in the next few years?"  Not likely.

 

Now we're all set up to think that Ralph is crying wolf.  That this whole mess is in his imagination.

 

But what question DIDN'T get asked?  "Are the Bills still profitable when the salary cap goes up $10mil?  $20mil?  $40mil?"  I hear what Ralph is saying.  I can't believe no one else gets it. 

 

He's saying the Bills are okay now, but not down the road if things don't get fixed. It's like Ralph asking to have a sprinkler system installed in a building, but everyone says "Why?  I don't see a fire!"  Ralph wants to keep the Bills safe before the fire rages out of control.

 

But sometimes facts get in the way of a good story.

 

PTR

696787[/snapback]

 

 

The story is continued in Oakland, San Diego, Minnesota, Jacksonville, New Orleans etc .. etc

 

It's not a story after a while - it's a repeat

 

Still watching "Cheers" on TBS ?

[Kelly the Dog]

The other question that didnt get asked is, "Ralph, you do know that your TV rights you're going to get exceeds the new salary cap rise by tens of millions this year alone, don't you?"

[PromoTheRobot]

The other question that didnt get asked is, "Ralph, you do know that your TV rights you're going to get exceeds the new salary cap rise by tens of millions this year alone, don't you?"

696911[/snapback]

Well that's a terrific question that no one has bothered to investigate. Take what Ralph said about rising cap, see what Buffalo's projected revenues are, and calculate if the curve ever dips into the red. It's not rocket science. I believe we have enough data to make an educated guess.

 

PTR

[Dr. Trooth]

"He's saying the Bills are okay now, but not down the road if things don't get fixed. It's like Ralph asking to have a sprinkler system installed in a building, but everyone says "Why? I don't see a fire!" Ralph wants to keep the Bills safe before the fire rages out of control."

 

Promo speaks the "trooth" here. A lot of the wallers are either transplanted WNY'ers or 13-30 year olds that really don't have a conception of the economic climate in upstate NY. They have no conception of what it's like to pay $10,000 a year in property taxes (more than a mortgage payment) on their home that is assessed for $225,000, an electric bill that averages almost .12/KWH (highest in the continental US), not to mention taxes on gas and some counties have as much as a 9% total sales tax to keep afloat. Add to this an economic rate of growth that is 10 percentage points below the national average, and the economic picture is as pretty as Rossanne Barr.

 

What does this all mean for the Bills? Well, once Ralph has passed, the team is going to go up for sale. The next owner is going to want a return on his investment. The venue in which the Bills are located in has little or no economic viability to support an investment like that. Because of the high taxes, the high energy costs, the impotent political climate, eroding tax base (people leaving the state), etc. No business or corporation wants to locate (or even keep) their operation in a venue which considerably raises their operating costs. When a government contract is up for bid or an international company has plans to locate a facility in this country, NY state is usually the first place that is excluded... simply because of the ridiculous high cost of operation and the political machine they must go up against. So, the Bills are sitting in the middle of this and a new owner is not going to tolerate rising costs and a dwindling economic base, leaving him no option but to locate his business (the Bills) in an ecomically viable venue. I don't specifically no where that would be, but I know it aint in this state.

 

I am sorry for the long and depressing rant. As a life long resident of NY it pains me greatly to see this. And I must admit, I am in the planning stages of relocating out of state... for good. When Elliott Spitzer made the "Appalachia" comment when characterizing a ride from Schenectady to Niagara Falls, he was dead on accurate. But my reaction was "Hello.... WTF"? this is 2006, NY state has been in an economic freefall for the past 30 years, and a light has gone on for some politician? And then, after that comment, Spitzer has the balls to say to the graduating class at Hamilton College last weekend to "stay and work in NY". Where? and doing what? and for how much (afer taxes)?

 

Sorry my friends... I know it's a depressing thought to think that the Bills would move. It won't happen soon, but the reality is, the new NFL is profit driven and an entrepreneur can't make a reasonable ROA in this state. 10 years from now, unless there is some dramatic and almost impossible turnaround, they are gone. Folks, the Bills are the last NY pro football team. The Jets and Giants moved out long ago... and all efforts to bring them back within the NY State borders have been unsuccessfull. Ralph aint stupid, and never was. I think more than anything, while he's alive, he's sounded the alarm... perhaps even fighting his last fight for WNY, before he passes.

[obie_wan]

Promo speaks the "trooth" here.  A lot of the wallers are either transplanted WNY'ers or 13-30 year olds that really don't have a conception of the economic climate in upstate NY.  They have no conception of what it's like to pay $10,000 a year in property taxes (more than a mortgage payment) on their home that is assessed for $225,000, an electric bill that averages almost .12/KWH (highest in the continental US), not to mention taxes on gas and some counties have as much as a 9% total sales tax to keep afloat.  Add to this an economic rate of growth that is 10 percentage points below the national average, and the economic picture is as pretty as Rossanne Barr.

 

What does this all mean for the Bills?  Well, once Ralph has passed, the team is going to go up for sale.  The next owner is going to want a return on his investment.  The venue in which the Bills are located in has little or no economic viability to support an investment like that.  Because of the high taxes, the high energy costs, the impotent political climate, eroding tax base (people leaving the state), etc.  No business or corporation wants to locate (or even keep) their operation in a venue which considerably raises their operating costs.  When a government contract is up for bid or an international company has plans to locate a facility in this country, NY state is usually the first place that is excluded... simply because of the ridiculous high cost of operation and the political machine they must go up against.  So, the Bills are sitting in the middle of this and a new owner is not going to tolerate rising costs and a dwindling economic base, leaving him no option but to locate his business (the Bills) in an ecomically viable venue.  I don't specifically no where that would be, but I know it aint in this state.

 

I am sorry for the long and depressing rant.  As a life long resident of NY it pains me greatly to see this.  And I must admit, I am in the planning stages of relocating out of state... for good.  When Elliott Spitzer made the "Appalachia" comment when characterizing a ride from Schenectady to Niagara Falls, he was dead on accurate.  But my reaction was "Hello.... WTF"? this is 2006,  NY state has been in an economic freefall for the past 30 years, and a light has gone on for some politician?  And then, after that comment, Spitzer has the balls to say to the graduating class at Hamilton College last weekend to "stay and work in NY".  Where? and doing what? and for how much (afer taxes)?

 

Sorry my friends... I know it's a depressing thought to think that the Bills would move.  It won't happen soon, but the reality is, the new NFL is profit driven and an entrepreneur can't make a reasonable ROA in this state.  10 years from now, unless there is some dramatic and almost impossible turnaround, they are gone. Folks, the Bills are the last NY pro football team.  The Jets and Giants moved out long ago... and all efforts to bring them back within the NY State borders have been unsuccessfull.  Ralph aint stupid, and never was.  I think more than anything, while he's alive, he's sounded the alarm... perhaps even fighting his last fight for WNY, before he passes.

696985[/snapback]

 

 

It's pretty sad when a guy from Detroit fights harder for Buffalo than the "deep caring" locals.

[Mickey]

I can live with the 4 hour rule for tailgating because I love football and the Bills

I can live with the ticket price increases because I love football and the Bills

I can live with Moulds and his mouth and Flutie Flakes because I love football and the Bills

I can live with players from the "U" and their arrogance because I love football and the Bills

I can stand bad teams because I love football and the Bills

I can stand bad coaches because I love football and the Bills

I can stand bad General Managers because I love football and the Bills

The only thing that would make me give up my season tickets is this constant threat of leaving.

Ralph, if you are going....then FFSake go...if not STFU (shut the F... up)

Move in the middle of the night..whatever...

Ursay was right, Model was right...just do it or shut up.

 

This is my view on this matter....and all the news guys who try to make a living on speculating on the subject STFU...I refuse to be their pawn in this game

 

Go Bills...I mean stay Bills, I mean..."Go Bills"

696823[/snapback]

 

I think you are overestimating your importance in this game by referring to yourself as a "pawn". Pawns are in the game, we are not. Ralph's heirs and their estate attorneys are going to decide what to do and it won't matter what we do or say or what the press does or says. Economic reality is going to decide it or some white knight who maybe wants to do Buffalo a favor like Golisano.

 

I think Ralph is worried that under the current CBA and revenue sharing scheme, at some point economic reality is going to dictate that the team moves, whether that day arrives while he is still around or long after he passes away, it doesn't matter. When that day arrives, the team is almost certainly gone. He is trying to get that situatiion addressed to improve whatever years he has left with the team or to pave the way for a new owner to at least have the option to keep the team here.

 

I think he is doomed though I appreciate the effort. The question isn't whether the team is viable here which is something his current efforts might help, the question rather is whether it is more profitable to move the team elsewhere. If it is, then it is probably just a matter of time and circumstances before it moves.

[Niagara Bill]

I think you are overestimating your importance in this game by referring to yourself as a "pawn".  Pawns are in the game, we are not.  Ralph's heirs and their estate attorneys are going to decide what to do and it won't matter what we do or say or what the press does or says.  Economic reality is going to decide it or some white knight who maybe wants to do Buffalo a favor like Golisano. 

 

697340[/snapback]

While I support your logic abbout the business reality, I still believe we are a pawn...Ralph and the NFL keep trying to use us to make their point thus pulling us into the game. That is why I mentioned just leave in the middle of the night..I will not play the game and will give up my tickets if Ralph and the NFL continue to use me in their game. Maybe Ursay saved the Colts fans a lot of heart ache..

They should either do it behind closed doors or move...I have had enough of the emotional rollercoaster... I just want to talk football, JP, Nall, McGahee, Ko, Coy, & TKO...

[Draconator]

I've been hearing a LOT of talk about San Diego, Jacksonville, and New Orleans relocating to L.A.. Yesterday, there was a report in the S.F. Chronicle stating that Eddie DeBartolo and Carmen Policy want to buy a current team, and their object of desire is the Raiders. Article here. I've neard nothing about the Bills moving.

 

It's starting to appear that the Bills are not even an appleaing option for a L.A. team. There has been absolutely no mention of the Bills in regards to the NFL and L.A.

[PromoTheRobot]

I've been hearing a LOT of talk about San Diego, Jacksonville, and New Orleans relocating to L.A..  Yesterday, there was a report in the S.F. Chronicle stating that Eddie DeBartolo and Carmen Policy want to buy a current team, and their object of desire is the Raiders. Article here.  I've neard nothing about the Bills moving. 

 

It's starting to appear that the Bills are not even an appleaing option for a L.A. team.  There has been absolutely no mention of the Bills in regards to the NFL and L.A.

697806[/snapback]

I guess they want a team in L.A. to win right away. (so the very short attention span of Angelinos doesn't move on to the next shiny object) Short of fixing the games, they would rather place a franchiseon the cusp of breaking out.

 

PTR

[PatPatPatSack]

Promo speaks the "trooth" here.  A lot of the wallers are either transplanted WNY'ers or 13-30 year olds that really don't have a conception of the economic climate in upstate NY.  Th......

 

I am sorry for the long and depressing rant.  As a life long resident of NY it pains me greatly to see this.  And I must admit, I am in the planning stages of relocating out of state... for good.  When Elliott Spitzer made the "Appalachia" comment when characterizing a ride from Schenectady to Niagara Falls, he was dead on accurate.  But my reaction was "Hello.... WTF"? this is 2006,  NY state has been in an economic freefall for the past 30 years, and a light has gone on for some politician?  And then, after that comment, Spitzer has the balls to say to the graduating class at Hamilton College last weekend to "stay and work in NY".  Where? and doing what? and for how much (afer taxes)?

 

 

696985[/snapback]

[PatPatPatSack]

Whilst I agree with most of the post, I disagree with the Eliot Spitzer observation. I really doubt that "a light went on" with this politician. I do believe this might have been the first time you have heard this man quoted on the subject. But he has personally done more for your tax problem (attorney general insurance company smackdown) than any one else in the last 30 years. And now he wants the postition and title of govenor. This man calls a spade, a spade.

 

There are men who wish to be king so to speak, that indeed do care about the fix we are in. But by golly, they better understand and admit the fix we are in and not give us some pollyannaish crud about how life is beautiful in Upstate New York.

 

BTW, Eliot will be appearing downtown at the ballpark on Memorial Day. Drop down and see him in person. It will help anyone to make up thier mind about a once and future king to see him in action.

 

I have met Eliot Spitzer and regard him highly. I think that his ideas would fit in the middle ground of much of what I read on the wall. And I am quite sure you would be impressed by the man too. But rather than take my word for it, go listen to him. And not just to his TV commercials and 2 second media quotes.

[K-No]

Whilst I agree with most of the post, I disagree with the Eliot Spitzer observation. I really doubt that "a light went on" with this politician. I do believe this might have been the first time you have heard this man quoted on the subject. But he has personally done more for your tax problem (attorney general insurance company smackdown) than any one else in the last 30 years. And now he wants the postition and title of govenor. This man calls a spade, a spade.

 

There are men who wish to be king so to speak, that indeed do care about the fix we are in. But by golly, they better understand and admit the fix we are in and not give us some pollyannaish crud about how life is beautiful in Upstate New York.

 

BTW, Eliot will be appearing downtown at the ballpark on Memorial Day. Drop down and see him in person. It will help anyone to make up thier mind about a once and future king to see him in action.

 

I have met Eliot Spitzer and regard him highly. I think that his ideas would fit in the middle ground of much of what I read on the wall. And I am quite sure you would be impressed by the man too. But rather than take my word for it, go listen to him. And not just to his TV commercials and 2 second media quotes.

698187[/snapback]

 

Hello, I'm Elliot Spitzer, and I endorse this ad....

[Draconator]

Well, as a shot in the dark, and something I don't do hardly at all, I wrote to Nancy Gay, who wrote the piece I had quoted earlier in this thread about DeBartolo and Policy buying the Raiders and moving them to L.A. (San Francisco Chronicle). Here's the highlights of her reply.

 

At the NFL owners meeting in March, there was a lot of talk about what existing team would move to L.A. The Bills were not even brought up as one of the teams suggested for relocation. I mentioned in my initial email, that the Bills are so interwoven into the fabric of the Buffalo/WNY community, that if the Bills left, Buffalo would never recover. The NFL realizes this. As it was told to me, the NFL isn't even considering moving the Bills, because "the NFL knows it would sustain a massive public relations hit to even consider moving that franchise."

 

In regards to the California based NFL teams, the NFL sees all 3 teams, (Raiders, 49ers, and Chargers) with horrible stadium situations, declining attendence, and continious TV blackouts. Although the NFL considers San Diego a great host city for a Super Bowl, it won't even consider another SB in San Diego because Qualcomm is "archaic".

 

She sumed it up by saying that the Bills remaining in Buffalo is "quite safe".

[PatPatPatSack]

Hello, I'm Elliot Spitzer, and I endorse this ad....

698235[/snapback]

 

Hmm. If you were Eliot you would spell your name with only one L. But seeing as how you have added such insight to this post, I guess that can be overlooked.