Do we have the right linebackers to run the

[Tipster19]

I'm only asking a question. This whole defensive scheme is built on speed and while it's obvious that we have speed in our secondary, it's also important to have it in our LBs. Our 1st stringers, which is the only personnel that I'm familiar with, makes me wonder if what kind of shape we are at this position. Although Fletcher is all over the place he's not that big of a LB and he is older than one would like him to be. Spikes, IMHO, is really an unknown factor with his foot injury recovery. At least his back-up has had some valuable playing time last year in case things don't pan out so positive for him. Posey on the other hand though has been scrutinized in the past on his play. Does he posess the necessary speed that's needed to cover alot of ground? I read alittle about some of these back-ups and their bios but I must admit that other than what's on the Bills official website, I don't know anything about these players. Can I have some input on whether these are positions of need or if we are alright in these areas. Thanks.

 

PS. Here's a link on the Cover 2 defense.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ramblings.php?p=167&cat=1

[Rico]

Not to worry... if these LBs can't cut it, Marv will take care of it in the 2007 draft on Day 1.

[ans4e64]

yes

[Astrobot]

Fletcher has been criticized in the past about his ability to cover receivers over the middle. He's awesome as a tackling machine (157 tackles and assists, 4 sacks in 2005), and part of his job will be to continue saying hello to the opposing RB's. This might even improve withour new DT's.

 

As I understand the Tampa2, London won't be expected to be the first-line defender of those receivers over the middle; the answer to your question as regards London Fletcher is he'll be fine.

[Tipster19]

I think more importantly is what our back-ups' abilities are. They are mostly unknown and unproven. This is not meant to be critical, just an observation. The way that they go may be the difference in our success this season. I was hoping to hear some input on these players in particular. I live in Florida now and I can't follow the progress of the lesser known players as much as I would like.

 

Thanks for your input Astrobot. I hope that anyone else who responds makes as much of an honest effort in expressing their opinion.

[Pyrite Gal]

Actually as far as the Cover 2 goes I think the key thing is less speed than it is football smarts. Speed is important obviously, but more so because a player can use it as a crutch to make up for errors. However, the key to a good cover 2 (particularly with the LBs who need to make diagnostic judgments on whether the O is running or passing and if its a run pinch in to the point of attack because the DL players are shooting the gap rather stopping the run, correct LB diagnosis is key.

 

This is the main reason i am not concerned at all about Fletcher because as D captain he has continually demonstrated an ability to know whats going on with the football game incredibly fast. In addition, he is a high motor player and should be fine both in deep pass coverage the Tampa 2 calls for and to stop the run.

 

Specifically (since you ask) the back-ups on the depth chart are:

 

SLB

 

Stamer- Contract was recently exteneed by the Bills indicting the coaches judge him to be a valued player. He has shown some prowess on ST and even some atheticism as a back-up position player for the Bills with a nice INT where he blocked a pass and stayed focused on it for the INT in 2004. He has been a pro long enough and seen plays from both sidelines and on the field that I doubt one should be extremely worried about him playing the Cover or Tampa 2.

 

Ellison- Obviously as a rookie picked late in draft one would be likely throwing him to the wolves if you depended upon him to be a key player in a complex D scheme. However, one can see why the Bills picked him because he was a player who gained a great ST rep in college. He apparently has showed very good track speed, but I think his primary use is going to be on ST until he demonstrates he has learned the game in practice.

 

MLB-

 

Ezekial- Probably the biggest questions about the back-ups are with him. He actually got activisted early last season after TKO got hurt and saw some ST duty with OK results, but rather than sticking and forcing his way onto the field, as we got more confidence in Crowell making the move successfully from back-up MLB to WLB, and it became clear he had left his back-up MLB role behind him then Ezekial got that job but was inactive most if not all the rest of the way. My guess is if London goes down you will see Crowell move back before Ezekial plays/

 

Digregorio- camp fodder as best as I can tell.

 

Carothers- also camp fodder.

 

WLB

 

Crowell is 2nd on the depth chart behind TKO and will probably be at WLB until TKO proves he has recovered (all things look good right now and even 80% of TKO is better than 100% of most LBs. I expect that when TKO is officially judged as back then the recently extended Crowell takes on and challenges Posey for the Sam job. As a former MLB who competently called D signals in pre-season last year, I have few doubts he can work in a cover 2.

 

Haggan is 3rd on the WLB depth chart and this recently extended player has shined on the #1 ST in the NFL, he has also seen a lot of plays though mostly from thje sidelines, but given his ST performance, his longevity and the team feeling good about him I think he is not a cover 2 worry.

 

Hunter- Signed as an FA last year and hung on as a PS guy. Things may get a little crowded at LB with TKOs recovery and particularly if Posey stays he is a likely goner.

 

Overall, i think we are very deep and good at LB. We really have 4 starters and though Posey appears to be the odd man out, we actually have the cap room that we might hang onto him (particularly if there are any questions regarding YKPs recovery. Posey got continually zapped by some of the knowledgable TSW posters over the years, but despite complaints about him turning the wrong way or taking bad angles, these complaints were never supported in 03 and 04 to pointing out specific cases where these alleged problems led to TDs or big gains by opponents.

 

Yet, the entire D fell apart last year and Posey was one of those. He will need to show some things this pre-season in orfer to justify his staying even to supporters such as me. The strongest part of Posey's game in the zone blitz scheme has actually been his ability to correctly diagnose whether the opponent was going to run or pass. This skill will be played to in LBs duties in the cover 2 and I though I think Crowell is the better player who should beat him out for the start at SLB, i would suggest not writing him off completely yet. Moving to the cover might extend his career as a Bill a year particularly if we find a way to liberate the pass rishing chops he showed when he got 8 sacks his last year in Texas.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Probably not, but who cares? We got lots of defensive backs.

[Tipster19]

Seems like Posey could be more effective as a pass rushing specialist than just having LB duty. If Spikes does make a complete recovery than would Crowell play where Posey does and move Posey more up on the line? Here's a link on more of Posey's abilities.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=3783

[Billsjunkie]

The first thing that I thought of when reading that article is that Realfootballwhatever.com that people have been ripping on broke this story a couple weeks back and people called him a moron. Including me.

But now it may seem that this website could have some PR pull with the Bills. Even if its just a little bit.

[Fixxxer]

Seems like Posey could be more effective as a pass rushing specialist than just having LB duty. If Spikes does make a complete recovery than would Crowell play where Posey does and move Posey more up on the line? Here's a link on more of Posey's abilities.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=3783

696507[/snapback]

 

The thing with Posey is that he's not fast nor explosive.

 

Maybe it's a misconception of mine, but I see the LBs in the Cover 2 as being guys with a certain explsosiveness or suddenness added to their game.

 

I don't see Posey or Haggan as being dinamic enough to be effective LBs in this defense, physically speaking.

Wheter they can overcome their physical limitations with awareness is up to the coaches to determine.

[Billsjunkie]

Actually Haggan is a very fast LBer. One of our best special teamers.

He may be one of the faster LBers on the team.

[silvermike]

He's fast? The tell me his goddamn 40 time!!

[Fixxxer]

Actually Haggan is a very fast LBer. One of our best special teamers.

He may be one of the faster LBers on the team.

696563[/snapback]

 

This is the same guy that couldn't run the 40 time under 5 seconds at the Combines.

 

He's great as a ST player but the guy is not fast.

 

Mario Hagan

Outside Linebacker

Mississippi State

Status: Senior

6-2/255

40: 5.02

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DJ Boyer

 

1-30-03 Strength: Size Forcing fumbles

Weakness: Speed Pass coverage

Assessment: Mario Haggan has a great deal of experience but struggled during his senior season. Haggan is a big, strong and physical player who seems to lack the top-notch speed to be a 1st round consideration. Struggles in pass coverage and will have trouble staying with his man if the play goes for more than 10 yards downfield. Haggan would thrive as a run-stuffing linebacker in the right system. Range is somewhat limited so Haggan needs the right scheme. Has been known to make big plays with penetration and is one of the best at stripping ball carriers. Should go by the 3rd round in the draft.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew Gambill

 

1-18-03 Mario Haggan and Mark Brown were both steady. Both showed a good feel for the game and both reacted well to the ball. Neither appeared to be very athletic and I don't see Haggan as more than a two down, run stopping middle backer.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pro Football Weekly

 

1-15-03 Mississippi State LB Mario Haggan has gained quite a reputation for being outgoing and vocal. Monday, he shuffled through a few personnel types at the Adams Mark Hotel, Senior Bowl headquarters, to introduce himself to Chiefs head coach Dick Vermeil, interrupting Vermeil’s conversation in the process. The coach and future NFL player shared a few laughs, then Haggan moved on.

12-12-02 “Mississippi State LB Mario Haggan has not had as good of a year as he did a year ago. I thought he just didn’t play as well, but it could be that the team hasn’t played as well either. They already canned half their coaching staff and both coordinators. Coming into the year, he was one of the top two inside ’backers.”

[Pyrite Gal]

The thing with Posey is that he's not fast nor explosive.

 

Maybe it's a misconception of mine, but I see the LBs in the Cover 2 as being guys with a certain explsosiveness or suddenness added to their game.

 

I don't see Posey or Haggan as being dinamic enough to be effective LBs in this defense, physically speaking.

Wheter they can overcome their physical limitations with awareness is up to the coaches to determine.

696548[/snapback]

 

I think the major thing needed for an LB in the cover 2 (or Tampa 2) is a good footnsll brain. More than the DL whose job is to shoot the gaps anp pressure the QB, or the safeties whose job is to play centerfield or the CBs whose job is to cover tightly in the short zone, the LBs will need to read the play and decide whether to pinch in to run stop or hold off and cover the short middle zone.

 

I think this D was made for a player like London Fketcher who has a great football mind and a constant motor. IF TKO's wheels are OK it suits him as well because of his experience and the quick reactions he had pre-injury. Ironically, while most of us were willing to say goodbye to Posey, this D style suits him more than the zone blitz does as both he an Denny seemed to operate in the zone blitz with an emphasis on making the correct read and either drop back in coverage or pinch up to the POA for run support.

 

I am also hopeful for Crowell as he showed a bit of goog football acumen subbing for F;etcher last pre-season. He adusted well to filling in for TKO and clearly is not physically as good, i think he made a few standout plays because he has good intellect and reads plays well..

 

If we are gonna depend on speed to make the Cover 3 work, Pryton Manning (andin fact most NFL QBs will have a field day picking apart our LBs who took a bad first step.

[frogger]

simple, the stress is on the weak side, moving crowell to that side and starting Spikes (once healthy) at strong cures all LB problems, except depth. Stamer is a better option in the cover 2 at strong than Posey. LBs have to be smoother in zone coverage, posey is not smooth. Fletcher will be fine, having played a little bit of in STL, he also is fast, in the c2 the MLB has to drop deep in zone (sometimes)

[K-gunner]

If i'm not mistaken M.Haggan was a DE in college and converted to LB when he was drafted.Speed is not his strong suit..

 

I like the Bills LB's.I think both Ezekial and Stamer have pretty good upside and Crowell did a good job filling in last year.I would not be too concerned about then adjusting to the C2.