ajzepp Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Tampa had a great defense and won the big one with Dilfer. 695623[/snapback] Passing Efficiency to the Burger King in games that mean something: Dilfer: 3/385 0.8% 1TD Bledsoe: 248/532 46.6% 134TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 When I offered this opinion, I was not talking about an entire career, otherwise a case could be made for Alan Page for example being one of the all-time great DTs. Page however was shoved around as players got bigger. I am only talking about a few seasons. For a couple of years, Lett was unstoppsable. Kent Hull actually said this to a friend of mine. Nobody pushed him around, and he even brought some pass rush to the table. Whether it was conditioning, drugs, attitude, injuries, etc. that prevented him from having a career like Joe Green (my selection for best DT ever), I don't know, but lack of talent surely wasn't the problem. 695635[/snapback] bill, i agree with you about lett. for about a 3 season window, he was one of the more unstoppable forces i've ever seen. the same goes for erik williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 bill, i agree with you about lett. for about a 3 season window, he was one of the more unstoppable forces i've ever seen. the same goes for erik williams. 695708[/snapback] Sadly (because he is a cowboy), Erik Williams was probably the best pure RT to ever play football. As for Lett, I simply can't think of anybody but Joe Green (and perhaps Bob Lily but he was a bit before my time) who was as good as him during this window. Things are slow here, and all-time greats position by position would make a great thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Sadly (because he is a cowboy), Erik Williams was probably the best pure RT to ever play football. As for Lett, I simply can't think of anybody but Joe Green (and perhaps Bob Lily but he was a bit before my time) who was as good as him during this window. Things are slow here, and all-time greats position by position would make a great thread. 695867[/snapback] The NFL 75th Anniversary selections. http://www.nfl.com/history/legends/75th-anniversary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Passing yards, not in the top 20. Behind such luminaries as Steve Deberg and Kerry Collins. Passing TDs, barely in the top FIFTY. Aikman was a very good QB... but let's not kid ourselves here. He's going into the HOF because he had Emmitt in the backfield, a line full of Pro Bowl players in front of him, and Irvin to throw to. John Elway would have won a lot more than two Super Bowls if he'd had talent like that surrounding him. Aikman might never have gotten to a Super Bowl with the pre-Terrell Davis teams Elway carried there. (Can anyone even name Denver's starting RBs in Elway's first three SBs?) Hell, for all the Brady-haters on here, try telling me his supporting cast ranks within a country mile of Aikman's... and yet, he also has three rings. Aikman = Hall of Famer? Yeah. Among the best ever? Debatable. Aikman = Bob Griese. JMO. 695057[/snapback] Aikman v. Kelly: Aikman 3 SB appearances, 3 SB wins. Kelly 4 SB appearances, 0 wins. And yet Kelly is in the hall of fame? Not to say Kelly wasn't great, he was. But Aikman closed the deal better than just about any QB in history, Elway included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Every time our Buffalo BILLS played Aikman's Cowboys in games not ending in a Roman Numeral, we beat them - regardless of who was at QB or how many injuries we had. 695626[/snapback] This brings up an interesting point. The Bills must be the only team ever to twice beat their Super Bowl opponent on the road in the regular season and lose to them in the big game - the Giants in 90 and the Cowboys in 93. Another tragic stat for our beloved Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 This brings up an interesting point. The Bills must be the only team ever to twice beat their Super Bowl opponent on the road in the regular season and lose to them in the big game - the Giants in 90 and the Cowboys in 93. Another tragic stat for our beloved Bills. 695873[/snapback] and for all the talk about nfc dominance during the bills run, the bills were 14-2 against the nfc during the regular season from 1990-93. moreover, the two games they lost were season enders after they had already clinched home field -- against the skins in 90 and the lions in 91. in both games, the stars rested. so, basically, they were 14-0 against the nfc during the regular season in the super bowl years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemhoff Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 1. Aikman = winner2. Bledsoe = loser Simple as that. 695021[/snapback] Rico, that should have ended this thread right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 The NFL 75th Anniversary selections. http://www.nfl.com/history/legends/75th-anniversary 695871[/snapback] Thanks, but they omitted several deserving players, including Bruce Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Thanks, but they omitted several deserving players, including Bruce Smith. 695908[/snapback] I was surprised cheap-shot artist Jack Lambert was in it. He couldn't cover a pass to save his soul, played between Ham and Russell, with the iron curtain in front of him and a fine backfield. It was a historical look, though, so some recent players had to fall out. The older players played under rules - or lack of - that would make a lot of contemporary players cry for their mommies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I was surprised cheap-shot artist Jack Lambert was in it. He couldn't cover a pass to save his soul, played between Ham and Russell, with the iron curtain in front of him and a fine backfield. 695917[/snapback] His secondary was OK too, with Mel Blount (easily one of the best cbs of all time) and Mke Wagner. Do you think that Whitner will be as good as Wagner? If so, he would be a steal. Lambert was a small but tough mlb. Mike Curtis was about the same size, and he was simply great; far better than Lmbert imo. He was also insane. I believe that despite the increase in size of the NFL, a young Mike Curtis would come into the league and simply kick ass. The man was a true football player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 His secondary was OK too, with Mel Blount (easily one of the best cbs of all time) and Mke Wagner. Do you think that Whitner will be as good as Wagner? If so, he would be a steal. Lambert was a small but tough mlb. Mike Curtis was about the same size, and he was simply great; far better than Lmbert imo. He was also insane. I believe that despite the increase in size of the NFL, a young Mike Curtis would come into the league and simply kick ass. The man was a true football player. 695934[/snapback] Backfield = secondary. Wagner was not bad, but I put him in with Lambert - nice supporting cast. Curtis was a fine player. Funny how the pendulum swings - for years, safety, center, and MLB were ho-hum positions, but they's regained their importance in recent years. I think the Bills are nuts to contemplate some sort of Cover 2, btw. I think that scheme, when it meets with success, is because of idiot OC's that get antsy about passing and won't just shred it 5 yards at a time by running up the gut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Rico, that should have ended this thread right there. 695905[/snapback] Pretty obvious, ain''t it? I think the Bills are nuts to contemplate some sort of Cover 2, btw. I think that scheme, when it meets with success, is because of idiot OC's that get antsy about passing and won't just shred it 5 yards at a time by running up the gut. 695952[/snapback] I haven't seen anyone else in here say this, but I'm with you. Just look at last year... the Bears and Colts fell short playing pure Cover 2 in the playoffs when they came up against a strong physical team that just beat the hell out of them. I know back in the 2002 SB Tampa Bay beat the Raiders, but that was a very flukey game, with Chucky knowing Gannon & their system inside-out. Unless you've got the brainpower and the personnel (ala BB) to run different defenses depending on the match-ups, I don't think any team is going to win another championship again playing pure Cover 2 anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Pretty obvious, ain''t it? I haven't seen anyone else in here say this, but I'm with you. Just look at last year... the Bears and Colts fell short playing pure Cover 2 in the playoffs when they came up against a strong physical team that just beat the hell out of them. I know back in the 2002 SB Tampa Bay beat the Raiders, but that was a very flukey game, with Chucky knowing Gannon & their system inside-out. Unless you've got the brainpower and the personnel (ala BB) to run different defenses depending on the match-ups, I don't think any team is going to win another championship again playing pure Cover 2 anytime soon. 695967[/snapback] teams that ran a cover 2 last year: tampa bay: #1 defense overall in the nfl bears: #2 defense overall (1st in points allowed) indy: #11 overall (2nd in points allowed) pitt's rushing offense v. indy in the playoff game: 42 carries, 112 yards (well under 3 yds/carry) jets: #12 overall (#7 in 04 as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 teams that ran a cover 2 last year: tampa bay: #1 defense overall in the nfl bears: #2 defense overall (1st in points allowed) indy: #11 overall (2nd in points allowed) pitt's rushing offense v. indy in the playoff game: 42 carries, 112 yards (well under 3 yds/carry) jets: #12 overall (#7 in 04 as well) 696142[/snapback] Nice stats... but still only 1 championship, in 2002. And IIRC, the Steelers were able to convert clutch 3rd and 4th downs in that Colts game without too much problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Not to say Kelly wasn't great, he was. But Aikman closed the deal better than just about any QB in history, Elway included. 695872[/snapback] ...by handing off to Smith on thirteen of seventeen plays in the Cokeboys' two second-half TD drives in SB XXVIII. Much as I love Jimbo, I don't put him on Elway's level, either. (And for the record, I don't even LIKE Elway. Never did.) But I can remember games #12 took over, practically dragging the Bills to victory by sheer force of will. Count me among those who list the dive into the Miami endzone as JK's greatest play; can anyone come up with a similar "Kodak Moment" for Aikman? A memorable fourth-quarter comeback, perhaps, or a dominating performance? I suppose you could make a case for SB XXVII, although that game was against a beat-up Bills team that probably shouldn't have made it there to begin with. Aikman was coolly, brutally efficient... but he wasn't a game-changer. Hall of Famer, certainly better than Bledsoe, but not on that upper level of truly "Great" QBs. Just my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 My bad, although my comment was more of a broader reference to the TBD threads in the recent past that have considered Drew's HOF status. Of course, I never made that clear. 695560[/snapback] I didn't know about the Drew for HOF push....I don't want to resurface an ugly/bad argument but to me, that sounds ridiculous. I'd say it would be a tough enough job to argue Bledsoe being a 'top' let alone a 'HOF' QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 Nope. Drew is the guy who'll tease you with good early performances and fall apart late. There's always an excuse......Every time our Buffalo BILLS played Aikman's Cowboys in games not ending in a Roman Numeral, we beat them - regardless of who was at QB or how many injuries we had. 695626[/snapback] You apear to be making a good arguement against Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 You apear to be making a good arguement against Kelly. 696298[/snapback] Hardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 1. Aikman = winner2. Bledsoe = loser Simple as that. Rico, that should have ended this thread right there. 695905[/snapback] If Elway played 2 seasons fewer than he did(say due to injury), he would still be considered one of the greatest even though he had lost 3 superbowls & won none. Kelly lost 4 superbowls & won none. Dilfer & Johnson are 1 win-0 losses in the superbowl. "Simple as that."?? Yes I would think saying winner/loser is a bit simplistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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