Thoughts on Flutie

[RLflutie7]

I have to pile on here... because I think there is so much confusion and revisionism about Flutie and his time here... so here goes:

 

Yes, Flutie played great in 1998 in relief of RJ. He threw deep, essentially saving Moulds' career, and he won a ton of exciting games. Whether he "saved the franchise" is in the eye of the beholder, but he was certainly good enough to keep RJ nailed to the bench in 1998...

 

BUT.... even that year he proved vulnerable to a disciplined defense that did not lose its focus. The Parcells-Belichek Jets beat the Bills with Flutie twice, allowing only one touchdown and five field goals in those two games. The inability to beat the Jets (combined of course with "Just give it to them" and Vinny's helmet TD) kept the Bills from winning the East. It is also important to remember that, although he racked up big numbers against the Fins in the playoff game, he also turned the ball over TWICE when the Bills had first and goal inside the 10. That red zone problem was another thing that exposed the weakness in his game... smaller field meant less room for the defense to get spread out, which exposed how difficult it was for Flutie to zing the ball into tight spaces.

 

Those problems were then exposed even more in 1999. Even though the Bills had a solid record, anyone who watched them that year will remember how the offense sputtered. Part of this was because of Joe Pendry's sophomore slump as OC (especially the failure to settle on one running back), but Flutie had many problems as well. His numbers were down, the offense was much less explosive, and the Bills not only lost big to Indy (on opening day) and Seattle on the road, as well as a late-season 17-7 loss to the Jets (in which Flutie fumbled in the end zone to give the Jets a TD), but also lost games at home to the Giants and Raidahs in which the offense was simply unable to get anything consistent going at all. This is why when RJ came in on the last Sunday of the season against Indy and put up 21 points in the first quarter (one of I think only two times the entire year that the Bills scored three touchdowns at all), Ralph (with Wade's assent, grudging or otherwise) felt that the offense needed the change...

 

My point is not to attack Flutie. I was a big fan when he played at BC, and I am a confirmed laundry-rooter for anybody who plays for the Bills (a subject for a different rant), but I think it is possible to see the limitations in his game withoutt having to fall victim to any Kremlinology about whether or not he was a locker room problem. RJ turned out to be a disaster as well, but I do not think the Bills can be faulted for wanting to see what the kid could do. By late 1999, they saw exactly what Flutie could do, and although there was much good there, one could also see many growing problems.

 

Go Bills!

692515[/snapback]

 

 

Not having Thurman Thomas for the whole season and Eric Moulds for a few games and Pendry all combined to hurt the Bills offense in 1999.

 

It's funny how Belichek says Flutie is the one of the hardest guys to defend and people here say it's so easy.

[Astrobot]

QUOTE(AVP @ May 16 2006, 03:49 PM)

I still have a box of Flutie Flakes.  I wonder if they are worth more now?? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

$5.50

 

The Flutie Flakes shirt is worth $15.50, and less moldy.

[Risin]

Not having Thurman Thomas for the whole season and Eric Moulds for a few games and Pendry all combined to hurt the Bills offense in 1999.

 

It's funny how Belichek says Flutie is the one of the hardest guys to defend and people here say it's so easy.

692530[/snapback]

 

 

Flutie was the reason we didn't have Thurman.

 

[The Dean]

Now there's a word you don't see every day.  Where can a guy find a good factotum anyway?

692392[/snapback]

 

 

Well, right here, actually:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087685263...glance&n=283155

 

Factotum is a terrific Charles Bukowski book...one of my favoirtes, actually. It's a perfect Bukowski starter book, along with Post Office.

 

There is now a movie, starring Matt Dillon, which i have yet to see:

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0417658/

 

I'll see the movie, but Bukowski should be read before viewed.

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

mmmmm....flutie flakes.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Not having Thurman Thomas for the whole season and Eric Moulds for a few games and Pendry all combined to hurt the Bills offense in 1999.

 

It's funny how Belichek says Flutie is the one of the hardest guys to defend and people here say it's so easy.

692530[/snapback]

 

 

I never said it was easy to defend him... a defense had to play well, be disciplined, not rush him but contain him. But if you did that, he had a hard time beating you... If you over-pursue (as the Bills d-line did in 2001 when he ran for that late touchdown), he could kill you. My point was not to demean Flutie's abilities, but rather to say that there were limits, and those limits had become obvious by late 1999.

[Frez]

If Flutie would have started that playoff game instea of Rob Johnson we would have won that game.

 

 

What a killer mistake that was for Wade Phillips. We had the #2 defense that year to take this team deep into the playoffs.

[bflo83]

If Flutie would have started that playoff game instea of Rob Johnson we would have won that game.

What a killer mistake that was for Wade Phillips. We had the #2 defense that year to take this team deep into the playoffs.

692634[/snapback]

Let me preface this by saying I am not an RJ fan. RJ didn't lose the game for us that day. To the contrary, he brought the team down field on a drive for the go-ahead field goal and had the special teams held up their end of the deal on the ensuing kick off "Shoeless" Rob Johnson would have gone down as a hero in the annals of Buffalo sports history.

 

I believed before that game that the team that won that day would end up in the Super Bowl - unfortunately Tennessee won and the Bills didn't. There was a certain Buffalo satisfaction to see them come up inches short of tying the game at the end of the Super Bowl.

 

BTW, thoughts on Flutie...thanks for the memories but it's been time to go for a long time. While the 98 season was a fun one, there are a lot more players who have come thru town that I hold in a lot higher regard.

 

I'm also glad he didn't get a gift SB ring like RJ.

[Bob in SC]

If Flutie would have started that playoff game instea of Rob Johnson we would have won that game.

What a killer mistake that was for Wade Phillips. We had the #2 defense that year to take this team deep into the playoffs.

692634[/snapback]

 

Have to agree. Regardless, Flutie has been the most exciting Bills' QB since Kelly. I will never unerstand the hatred he evoked. A gutsy, talented little guy who gave it his all. What if Doug had been 6' 4"? Think of it! Would there have been as much negativism?

[dave mcbride]

I have to pile on here... because I think there is so much confusion and revisionism about Flutie and his time here... so here goes:

 

Yes, Flutie played great in 1998 in relief of RJ. He threw deep, essentially saving Moulds' career, and he won a ton of exciting games. Whether he "saved the franchise" is in the eye of the beholder, but he was certainly good enough to keep RJ nailed to the bench in 1998...

 

BUT.... even that year he proved vulnerable to a disciplined defense that did not lose its focus. The Parcells-Belichek Jets beat the Bills with Flutie twice, allowing only one touchdown and five field goals in those two games. The inability to beat the Jets (combined of course with "Just give it to them" and Vinny's helmet TD) kept the Bills from winning the East. It is also important to remember that, although he racked up big numbers against the Fins in the playoff game, he also turned the ball over TWICE when the Bills had first and goal inside the 10. That red zone problem was another thing that exposed the weakness in his game... smaller field meant less room for the defense to get spread out, which exposed how difficult it was for Flutie to zing the ball into tight spaces.

 

Those problems were then exposed even more in 1999. Even though the Bills had a solid record, anyone who watched them that year will remember how the offense sputtered. Part of this was because of Joe Pendry's sophomore slump as OC (especially the failure to settle on one running back), but Flutie had many problems as well. His numbers were down, the offense was much less explosive, and the Bills not only lost big to Indy (on opening day) and Seattle on the road, as well as a late-season 17-7 loss to the Jets (in which Flutie fumbled in the end zone to give the Jets a TD), but also lost games at home to the Giants and Raidahs in which the offense was simply unable to get anything consistent going at all. This is why when RJ came in on the last Sunday of the season against Indy and put up 21 points in the first quarter (one of I think only two times the entire year that the Bills scored three touchdowns at all), Ralph (with Wade's assent, grudging or otherwise) felt that the offense needed the change...

 

My point is not to attack Flutie. I was a big fan when he played at BC, and I am a confirmed laundry-rooter for anybody who plays for the Bills (a subject for a different rant), but I think it is possible to see the limitations in his game withoutt having to fall victim to any Kremlinology about whether or not he was a locker room problem. RJ turned out to be a disaster as well, but I do not think the Bills can be faulted for wanting to see what the kid could do. By late 1999, they saw exactly what Flutie could do, and although there was much good there, one could also see many growing problems.

 

Go Bills!

692515[/snapback]

good post - i distinctly remember that giants game in 99. if antowain smith made that 4th and half a yard, the bills would have ended up 12-4 ...

[dave mcbride]

Let me preface this by saying I am not an RJ fan.  RJ didn't lose the game for us that day. To the contrary, he brought the team down field on a drive for the go-ahead field goal and had the special teams held up their end of the deal on the ensuing kick off "Shoeless" Rob Johnson would have gone down as a hero in the annals of Buffalo sports history. 

 

I believed before that game that the team that won that day would end up in the Super Bowl - unfortunately Tennessee won and the Bills didn't. There was a certain Buffalo satisfaction to see them come up inches short of tying the game at the end of the Super Bowl.

 

BTW, thoughts on Flutie...thanks for the memories but it's been time to go for a long time.  While the 98 season was a fun one, there are a lot more players who have come thru town that I hold in a lot higher regard.

 

I'm also glad he didn't get a gift SB ring like RJ.

692663[/snapback]

i hate to dredge this up again, but johson did not play well that game - 10-22 for under 100 yards and sacked mercilessly (including one where he fumbled into the endzone). and this against one of the worst pass defenses in the league that year -- tennessee's.

[Scraps]

If Flutie would have started that playoff game instea of Rob Johnson we would have won that game.

What a killer mistake that was for Wade Phillips. We had the #2 defense that year to take this team deep into the playoffs.

692634[/snapback]

 

I was a supporter of Flutie at the time but quite frankly, I'm not convinced Johnson vs Flutie was the deciding factor in that game and the Bills secondary suffered so many injuries in that game that they wouldn't have made it past through the next round.

[MRW]

i hate to dredge this up again, but johson did not play well that game - 10-22 for under 100 yards and sacked mercilessly (including one where he fumbled into the endzone). and this against one of the worst pass defenses in the league that year -- tennessee's.

692672[/snapback]

And yet, that same Tennessee defense was able to perform adequately against a Rams offense at its peak. Their pass D may not have been good statistically that year, but by the end of the season they were certainly coming together, and they went on to have one of the top Ds the next season.

[RLflutie7]

And yet, that same Tennessee defense was able to perform adequately against a Rams offense at its peak.  Their pass D may not have been good statistically that year, but by the end of the season they were certainly coming together, and they went on to have one of the top Ds the next season.

692702[/snapback]

 

 

A very good point that few people remember. It took the Rams four or five possessions inside the redzone to score a touchdown in the Superbowl. They moved the ball well, but they had a tough time scoring.

 

I have gone back and forth on this game regarding Flutie and Johnson. I think Flutie would have made a difference, but I'm not so sure the Bills would have scored more TDs. They probably would have scored more field goals but I'm not so sure about touchdowns.

 

Remember also the Titans had a top-5 run defense. The Rams had a top-5 run defense also, and those are the teams that end up in the Superbowl.

[RLflutie7]

A very good point that few people remember. It took the Rams four or five possessions inside the redzone to score a touchdown in the Superbowl. They moved the ball well, but they had a tough time scoring.

 

I have gone back and forth on this game regarding Flutie and Johnson. I think Flutie would have made a difference, but I'm not so sure the Bills would have scored more TDs. They probably would have scored more field goals but I'm not so sure about touchdowns.

 

Remember also the Titans had a top-5 run defense. The Rams had a top-5 run defense also, and those are the teams that end up in the Superbowl.

692729[/snapback]

 

 

I'm wrong. The Titans had only the 10th-ranked run defense. The Rams led the league in run defense.

[shibuya]

wow for such a nobody Flutie still get accolades here in Buffalo

 

let the midget die already.

 

Playoff claiber teams and good teams in general always found a way to gameplan for Flutie. that's why he has never one an NFL Playoff game, never been to a superbowl, and only once inhis entire career started a 16 game season, where he went 5-11

 

Flutie deserves very little praise for anything in the NFL. In the CFL yes, but in the NFL he was nothing more then an over achiving midget

[CajunBillsBacker]

I didn't care for Flutie, but that 98 season was definitely the most fun to watch since the superbowl years.

[eball]

Flutie was the reason we didn't have Thurman.

 

692578[/snapback]

EXACTLY. That play against Indy will be forever remembered as the video definition of "hung out to dry."

 

As soon as Thurman was able to breathe again, he should have flattened Flutie.

[eball]

I have to pile on here... because I think there is so much confusion and revisionism about Flutie and his time here... so here goes:

 

Yes, Flutie played great in 1998 in relief of RJ. He threw deep, essentially saving Moulds' career, and he won a ton of exciting games. Whether he "saved the franchise" is in the eye of the beholder, but he was certainly good enough to keep RJ nailed to the bench in 1998...

 

BUT.... even that year he proved vulnerable to a disciplined defense that did not lose its focus. The Parcells-Belichek Jets beat the Bills with Flutie twice, allowing only one touchdown and five field goals in those two games. The inability to beat the Jets (combined of course with "Just give it to them" and Vinny's helmet TD) kept the Bills from winning the East. It is also important to remember that, although he racked up big numbers against the Fins in the playoff game, he also turned the ball over TWICE when the Bills had first and goal inside the 10. That red zone problem was another thing that exposed the weakness in his game... smaller field meant less room for the defense to get spread out, which exposed how difficult it was for Flutie to zing the ball into tight spaces.

 

Those problems were then exposed even more in 1999. Even though the Bills had a solid record, anyone who watched them that year will remember how the offense sputtered. Part of this was because of Joe Pendry's sophomore slump as OC (especially the failure to settle on one running back), but Flutie had many problems as well. His numbers were down, the offense was much less explosive, and the Bills not only lost big to Indy (on opening day) and Seattle on the road, as well as a late-season 17-7 loss to the Jets (in which Flutie fumbled in the end zone to give the Jets a TD), but also lost games at home to the Giants and Raidahs in which the offense was simply unable to get anything consistent going at all. This is why when RJ came in on the last Sunday of the season against Indy and put up 21 points in the first quarter (one of I think only two times the entire year that the Bills scored three touchdowns at all), Ralph (with Wade's assent, grudging or otherwise) felt that the offense needed the change...

 

My point is not to attack Flutie. I was a big fan when he played at BC, and I am a confirmed laundry-rooter for anybody who plays for the Bills (a subject for a different rant), but I think it is possible to see the limitations in his game withoutt having to fall victim to any Kremlinology about whether or not he was a locker room problem. RJ turned out to be a disaster as well, but I do not think the Bills can be faulted for wanting to see what the kid could do. By late 1999, they saw exactly what Flutie could do, and although there was much good there, one could also see many growing problems.

 

Go Bills!

692515[/snapback]

Awesome post, RJ (not THAT RJ). I absolutely could not have expressed my thoughts concerning Flutie and the Bills any better.

[Sisyphean Bills]

But in hindsight, Flutie was the best thing to happen to this team since the glory days. Really, he was the only born winner we had since then--always finding the knack to make a miracle happen to win a game.

692384[/snapback]

 

Always. Like when he fumbled the playoff game away.