CircleTheWagons Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Like global warming. 692543[/snapback] If 75% of your country was frozen you would want global warming too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I have to call BS on Bush this time. I am far from a Bush fan, in fact, most of you know of my apathy toward any type of Bipartisan politics, but Bush is trying to play both sides here. The National Guard is NOT going down there to militarize the border. I hope no one was fooled into thinking this was the case. We are not talking about guardsmen with M16s patroling the borders apprehending illegals. Quote from the Chimp's speech: "The Guard will assist the Border Patrol by operating surveillance systems, analyzing intelligence, installing fences and vehicle barriers, building patrol roads, and providing training. Guard units will not be involved in direct law enforcement activities -- that duty will be done by the Border Patrol." So building roads is going to help, building fences is what they will be doing. Great plan. Why don't you uphold the fuggin laws of this country jack-off!!!!!! This is what kills me, here is another quote: "Second, to secure our border, we must create a temporary worker program. A temporary worker program would meet the needs of our economy, and it would give honest immigrants a way to provide for their families while respecting the law. HUH???? Did I hear that right. So let's get this straight. We are securing the border by creating more incentive for illegals to swarm over the border now. He didn't actually mention the "A" word, but this is what is will sound like to ALL illegal aliens. "Honest" immigrants you say? You mean folks like my Indian co-worker who has finally being sworn in tomorrow as an American after being separated from his wife for the last four years? No, he means the folks breaking the fuggin law. WHAT A JOKE!!!!!! Flame on!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 "Second, to secure our border, we must create a temporary worker program. A temporary worker program would meet the needs of our economy, and it would give honest immigrants a way to provide for their families while respecting the law. HUH???? Did I hear that right. So let's get this straight. We are securing the border by creating more incentive for illegals to swarm over the border now. He didn't actually mention the "A" word, but this is what is will sound like to ALL illegal aliens. "Honest" immigrants you say? You mean folks like my Indian co-worker who has finally being sworn in tomorrow as an American after being separated from his wife for the last four years? No, he means the folks breaking the fuggin law. WHAT A JOKE!!!!!! Flame on!!!!! 692572[/snapback] What makes you think that the guest worker program will open to illegals in the United States? I didn't get that impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I have to call BS on Bush this time. I am far from a Bush fan, in fact, most of you know of my apathy toward any type of Bipartisan politics, but Bush is trying to play both sides here. The National Guard is NOT going down there to militarize the border. I hope no one was fooled into thinking this was the case. We are not talking about guardsmen with M16s patroling the borders apprehending illegals. Quote from the Chimp's speech: "The Guard will assist the Border Patrol by operating surveillance systems, analyzing intelligence, installing fences and vehicle barriers, building patrol roads, and providing training. Guard units will not be involved in direct law enforcement activities -- that duty will be done by the Border Patrol." So building roads is going to help, building fences is what they will be doing. Great plan. Why don't you uphold the fuggin laws of this country jack-off!!!!!! This is what kills me, here is another quote: "Second, to secure our border, we must create a temporary worker program. A temporary worker program would meet the needs of our economy, and it would give honest immigrants a way to provide for their families while respecting the law. HUH???? Did I hear that right. So let's get this straight. We are securing the border by creating more incentive for illegals to swarm over the border now. He didn't actually mention the "A" word, but this is what is will sound like to ALL illegal aliens. "Honest" immigrants you say? You mean folks like my Indian co-worker who has finally being sworn in tomorrow as an American after being separated from his wife for the last four years? No, he means the folks breaking the fuggin law. WHAT A JOKE!!!!!! Flame on!!!!! 692572[/snapback] I don't think the guest worker program equates to "amnesty" - though I'll be the first to admit it's wide open to interpretation. My interpretation, though, is that "amnesty" is a global, no-questions-asked, forgiveness of any legal violations...basically equivalent to an umbrella presidential pardon. The work program, on the other hand, is more of a quid pro quo situation: you do for us, we'll do for you. Pay your taxes and fines, put in your time, and we'll give you citizenship. In effect, it reduces the penalty for illegally crossing the border to a stiff fine while increasing the tax and SS base... ...which, when you think about it, is a pretty smart idea all around. Of course, this administration has a long demonstrable history of taking smart ideas and implementing them atrociously...but it's still a pretty smart idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I don't think the guest worker program equates to "amnesty" - though I'll be the first to admit it's wide open to interpretation. My interpretation, though, is that "amnesty" is a global, no-questions-asked, forgiveness of any legal violations...basically equivalent to an umbrella presidential pardon. The work program, on the other hand, is more of a quid pro quo situation: you do for us, we'll do for you. Pay your taxes and fines, put in your time, and we'll give you citizenship. In effect, it reduces the penalty for illegally crossing the border to a stiff fine while increasing the tax and SS base... ...which, when you think about it, is a pretty smart idea all around. Of course, this administration has a long demonstrable history of taking smart ideas and implementing them atrociously...but it's still a pretty smart idea. 692585[/snapback] Yeah, I was actually suggesting this program in a conversation before the speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Well, I guess I have to come clean. My ass is one of the causes of global warming. 692545[/snapback] I guess you should have thought about that 2 days before the day after tomorrow. We didn't listen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I don't think the guest worker program equates to "amnesty" - though I'll be the first to admit it's wide open to interpretation. My interpretation, though, is that "amnesty" is a global, no-questions-asked, forgiveness of any legal violations...basically equivalent to an umbrella presidential pardon. The work program, on the other hand, is more of a quid pro quo situation: you do for us, we'll do for you. Pay your taxes and fines, put in your time, and we'll give you citizenship. In effect, it reduces the penalty for illegally crossing the border to a stiff fine while increasing the tax and SS base... ...which, when you think about it, is a pretty smart idea all around. Of course, this administration has a long demonstrable history of taking smart ideas and implementing them atrociously...but it's still a pretty smart idea. 692585[/snapback] Perhaps the worker program will turn out ok, I certainly hope so. I am worried about the NG thingie though. I don't think it will do a GD thing to alleviate the problem from growing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Perhaps the worker program will turn out ok, I certainly hope so. I am worried about the NG thingie though. I don't think it will do a GD thing to alleviate the problem from growing... 692629[/snapback] What, exactly, would you suggest that is better? Hell, half the people talking about the so called "problem" can't define what the "problem" actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spun Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Not like I think this is a great idea but it is interesting to ponder. Currently, if you are caught illegally, the Border Patrol pretty much turns you around and drops you off across the Mexican border, if you are Mexican. So, you try again and again until you succeed at getting into the country and living as you can. Well, how about making things so that if you are caught a second time you are incarcerated. Costly? Definitely. An effective deterrent? Possibly. Likelihood of ever being put into practice? Not a chance. As for the US / Mexico border being a good way for terrorists getting into the country, the US should be very concerned. If very poor farm workers from remote Mexican villages are able to penetrate the border with the help of people on both sides of the border, how do you think corrupt individuals in the immigrant trade will respond to even more cash thrown their way by terrorist types? I do think much of what the Prez said in his speech made some sense. The guest worker program apparently worked in the past so why not give it a chance? However, if not pursuing the undocumented because they have reached a certain "time in the country" requirement only encourages more immigrants to cross in hope of future "deals" (amnesty). It already is. Although tragedies such as Monday's van crash along the US / Mexico border happens fairly routinely, my guess is the desperation to get into the US is now greater than ever because of immigration reform. I was surprised that the Prez didn't say a whole lot about the current backlog of those who have tried to enter the country legally. I heard an estimate of ten years? Some Buffalonians might be able to relate to a scenario of your job being eliminated or your employer leaving the country, only leaving you to figure out what to do for you and your family. For those who lost their jobs at Bethlehem Steel and Trico, could you afford to wait ten years to make your move? Smuggler van crash: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/traffic/9221863/detail.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I don't give a rats ass if the illegals "pay taxes" send them back and enforce the laws... Why are we so worried about the ecomomy? Did anybody hear about the sheriff in Oregon that is trying to recoop the money that his taxpayers have to spend on the illegal problem? Everybody else should follow suit and start suing... This whole thing is a top heavy problem with US taxpayer getting pissed on by everyone above them... And if you cry foul, you get labeled a racist... It even happens on this very forum... Go figure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Build an electrified ence -10K volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Perhaps the worker program will turn out ok, I certainly hope so. I am worried about the NG thingie though. I don't think it will do a GD thing to alleviate the problem from growing... 692629[/snapback] Why worry? I don't think it'll help either...but is it going to hurt anything? Six thousand guys sitting in vans running surveillence equipment isn't likely to be that much of a problem either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 What, exactly, would you suggest that is better? Hell, half the people talking about the so called "problem" can't define what the "problem" actually is. 692690[/snapback] Specifically, I am concerned that by having this so called guest worker program without secure borders will cause more people to flood over the borders, as they will see this as a ticket to getting in around the citizenship laws. The guest worker program should only apply to those who are already here. But at the same time, you have to secure the borders. What do I suggest? Build the fuggin Berlin Wall on the border. Put the NG there if you like, but don't neuter them like this token gesture Chimp is talking about. Once you make sure no one can circumvent the LEGAL system, then the worker program may work. Tom, I guess it COULDN'T hurt to have the NG sitting in vans pulling thier pvds, but I hope that people don't think this is the fix to the solution... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Specifically, I am concerned that by having this so called guest worker program without secure borders will cause more people to flood over the borders, as they will see this as a ticket to getting in around the citizenship laws. The guest worker program should only apply to those who are already here. But at the same time, you have to secure the borders. What do I suggest? Build the fuggin Berlin Wall on the border. Put the NG there if you like, but don't neuter them like this token gesture Chimp is talking about. Once you make sure no one can circumvent the LEGAL system, then the worker program may work. Tom, I guess it COULDN'T hurt to have the NG sitting in vans pulling thier pvds, but I hope that people don't think this is the fix to the solution... 692899[/snapback] Minefields would work. </sarcasm> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Minefields would work. </sarcasm> 693023[/snapback] Except, given the Americans' understanding of geography, the mine placement would need to be outsourced.... </sarcasm, right back> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Minefields would work. </sarcasm> 693023[/snapback] Not cost-effective. On a per-dollar basis, "Caution! Mines!" signs would work better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Not cost-effective. On a per-dollar basis, "Caution! Mines!" signs would work better. 693102[/snapback] Preemptive nuclear strike on Mexico seems like a better option. We already have the nukes and it's only a few minutes of Pauls time to set coordinates. Minimal cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Except, given the Americans' understanding of geography, the mine placement would need to be outsourced.... </sarcasm, right back> 693080[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Preemptive nuclear strike on Mexico seems like a better option. We already have the nukes and it's only a few minutes of Pauls time to set coordinates. Minimal cost. 693109[/snapback] Actually, fake minefields are minimal cost. Cheaper than nukes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Actually, fake minefields are minimal cost. Cheaper than nukes. 693125[/snapback] But the nukes are already paid for and besides it doesn't hurt to test one on occassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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