Call for examples of Losman's "attitude"

[RuntheDamnBall]

I was talking with a Bills fan I met today, and he said the Bills should have drafted Leinart and gotten rid of Losman. Assuming hotter heads prevailed and this ridiculous suggestion became reality, I wanted to know why, and the gentleman said he "didn't like Losman's attitude." Now, I've heard rumors, and I saw pre-draft reports, but I would love to see some of those who are in the anti-Losman camp come up with something written, some direct quotes, or some statements from Bills players that really call attention to Losman's poor attitude.

 

What I have heard are measured responses from Bills players that seemed to say that they didn't think that his being handed the job was good for him or the team, a notion it seems Losman himself agrees with. What I have read are articles that seem to say the guy values the chance he's been given, is conscientious, likes Buffalo, and understands he needs to work hard to earn the job this year. What I'm looking for is undisputable information that says the guy is what a lot here seem to think he is.

 

What I'm sick of is unsubstantiated evidence that is giving the guy a bad rap and seen as grounds for judgment when the guy has started all of 8 NFL games. Judging him on his football merits, or worries on a lack thereof, are something quite different and, IMO, justifiable to this point. I still think the investment and the reports on him merit a real chance this year.

 

Those who feel differently and have some statements to back it up, step up, why don't you?

[UConn James]

I don't think there is any substantiated or quotable evidence that Losman rubbed the other Bills the wrong way. Mularkey clamped the lid pretty tight on players talking to the media other than the general "I'm going to go out there and do the best I can" interview --- no behind the scenes stuff, no revealing what was hurting them, no tell-alls of who didn't like who or who cut a loud fart in the film room.

 

There's the assumed veteran non-support that caused Meathead to make the switches to Holcomb, but that's surmized. Moulds wasn't very flattering toward the team in general, but I don't think even he came out and said something like "JP's a horse's ass."

 

And, even under the new admin and among our UFA losses, no one's said anything like that publicly. Probably b/c saying an essentially rookie player is a tad immature or had his struggles on-the-field is not exactly breaking news.

 

If JP is the best option, the coaches will put him on the field. If not, they won't.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I don't think there is any substantiated or quotable evidence that Losman rubbed the other Bills the wrong way. Mularkey clamped the lid pretty tight on players talking to the media other than the general "I'm going to go out there and do the best I can" interview --- no behind the scenes stuff, no revealing what was hurting them, no tell-alls of who didn't like who or who cut a loud fart in the film room.

 

There's the assumed veteran non-support that caused Meathead to make the switches to Holcomb, but that's surmized. Moulds wasn't very flattering toward the team in general, but I don't think even he came out and said something like "JP's a horse's ass."

 

And, even under the new admin and among our UFA losses, no one's said anything like that publicly. Probably b/c saying an essentially rookie player is a tad immature or had his struggles on-the-field is not exactly breaking news.

 

If JP is the best option, the coaches will put him on the field. If not, they won't.

691826[/snapback]

That's pretty much the way I've seen it.

[Pyrite Gal]

I an also interested to see if anyone has any objective evidence of a "bad attitude" on the part of JP as I haven't seen anything specific or even implied by his words that say bad attitude,

 

On the contrary, he did go on record on a TV interview (hence no linky) where he responded a question when Bledsoe was cut of saying that he had gotten the job "the wrong way" instead of with his results on the field but he would do the best he could,

 

Much of the anti-JP rantings I have seen really amount to the fact-fee opinions which we all have a right on TSW but there really is little objective evidence to support these claims.

 

Another favorite argument of these ranters is to claim that any questioning of their lack of substansenated claims is in fact an endorsement that JP is great, should be our QB regardless of how he performs, or some other extreme or outlandish claim.

 

Just because one is not ready to cut JP does not mean you think he is great. JPs performance flat out sucked last year, but this does not mean that he should be cut and actually does not mean that he should not get a shot at starting this year IF he earns it on the field. The bad news for folks that hate JP is that actually, barring either Nall or Holcomb producing well enough in pre-season or practice then actually is at least first among equals due to his contract and the investment on him. Unless Nall or Holcomb play very good ball, then all JP will need to do to deserve the starting job is play OK and show ge gas potential.

 

Its not my preference I just think this is a reality as the NFL used to be a sport that also happened to be a business and now it is a business that happens to be a sport,

 

As an addition to what I see as a balanced view of the JP situation, there are a couple of "grace notes" where folks may find evidence of bad attotude by JP if they widh to explore it:

 

1. It was definitely my "feeling" that the hit on him that injured him pre-season before last was a shove put on him by Troy Vincent when JP was wearing the "no-touch" QB practice tutu. my recollection is that he was taking advantage of the fact players could not tackle him in practice to bail out and pull off runs when he saw pressure. There may be evidence of JP being a lttle to enthused about making these fake runs and that i why Vincent pushed an unprepard JP and gave him a boo-boo.

 

2. Another case where there may be evidence of a wayward attitude by JP is in the first NE game where apparently it was a surprise to JP and all the Bills that it was him rather than Shane Matthews who went in to play mop=up after NE gad killed Bledsoe.

 

However, a douvting Thomasina would still need to give some other evidence of bad attitude on JPs part to go with any found here because, in both cases JP did say things on the record afterwards that indicated the message sent was valid and he learned from it.

[Ramius]

but...but...but... Jp had a surfer haircut...that means he has a terrible attitude!

[Keuka]

Fletcher said in a recent interview that Holcomb out played JP in camp and during the season. That might be a clue to how some of JP's teammates felt about him. Fletcher might be the best guy in the league to judge JP's ablility playing LB against him in practice. I'm not trying to bash JP. I hope he will learn to throw an accurate ball because that would make him an exciting QB to watch. I don't want the kind of excitement that comes from seeing him throw bad passes like I saw last year. I'd rather be board to death and win than die of a heart attack watching my team lose because of some bonehead play.

 

I'm not sure any of this speaks to JP's attitude.

[Buftex]

I don't think there is any substantiated or quotable evidence that Losman rubbed the other Bills the wrong way. Mularkey clamped the lid pretty tight on players talking to the media other than the general "I'm going to go out there and do the best I can" interview --- no behind the scenes stuff, no revealing what was hurting them, no tell-alls of who didn't like who or who cut a loud fart in the film room.

 

 

691826[/snapback]

 

 

Are you forgetting the Eric Moulds saga over the last few weeks of the season?

 

I don't get the impression that any of Losman's teammates in Buffalo disliked him personally, so much, as they thought he wasn't ready to play, and gave them less a chance of succeeding as a team, than Holcomb did.

 

Also, I hate to say it, but there were a lot of vetrans who were very upset about the way Bledsoe was let go. As much as most here hated him, Bledsoe was well liked, and commaned a lot of respect from his teammates. To me, the move to Losman was just bad timing on the Bills part. It kind of undid the progress the team had made. Once players start doubting the game plan, you have problems, and there is finger pointing.

 

Anyway, I am hardly a JP lover, or hater, just want what is best for the Bills.

 

It seems that most of the negatives about JP came from his Tulane days. Mewelde Moore, a teammate of his, and someone else (can't remember who) had some less than flattering things to say about him as a teammate.

 

From what I heard from JP, I was amazed that he always seem to say the right thing, and I really didn't sense any real "attitude" problems in the sense that we usually think of them in terms of sports (bad teammate, me-first guy, y'know TO!)

 

I started to think, as the season went on, and from comments that Mularkey, Donohoe, and Wyche had made over the months, maybe what they meant was that he was too tightly wound, and a little too hard on himself. Mularkey seemed to refer to this a lot during the season. "I just have to remind JP to calm down, not show so much emotion, etc etc.."

[RuntheDamnBall]

I'm hearing crickets from the direction of the haters.

[Dawgg]

Mewelde Moore, who played with him in college did not have many nice things to say about Losman as a teammate.

 

He even aired his thoughts to the press, saying he'd never want to be on his team again because the team was capable of so much more but Losman's selfishness played a major role in the season turning out the way it did.

 

I don't feel like searching for the link but some creative google queries might yield a result.

 

I'm hearing crickets from the direction of the haters.

691964[/snapback]

[RuntheDamnBall]

Mewelde Moore, who played with him in college did not have many nice things to say about Losman as a teammate.

 

He even aired his thoughts to the press, saying he'd never want to be on his team again because the team was capable of so much more but Losman's selfishness played a major role in the season turning out the way it did.

 

I don't feel like searching for the link but some creative google queries might yield a result.

691988[/snapback]

Great. Moore has had a pretty storied career for the Bills thus far, too, to say nothing of his supreme achievements for the Vikings.

[LynchMob23]

The only thing I thought was "cheeky" at best was when it coaches (and Losman) mentioned that he was correcting coaches on the play terminology and what was supposed to be run during a camp. Now in hindsight that might be because he knew what he was talking about and they didn't, but the fact that a relative rookie was correcting the HC or OC is something that is quite uncommon.

 

Personally, I think the kid is trying hard to be the best QB he can for the Bills and is getting a crapload of drama for it. And as for Leinart...I didn't like him when he was on USC, because unlike Palmer he never made me think he could be much outside of USC's vunder team.

[UConn James]

I started to think, as the season went on, and from comments that Mularkey, Donohoe, and Wyche had made over the months, maybe what they meant was that he was too tightly wound, and a little too hard on himself.  Mularkey seemed to refer to this a lot during the season.  "I just have to remind JP to calm down, not show so much emotion, etc etc.."

691951[/snapback]

 

Boy needs to stop listening to Incubus before games!

[Dawgg]

Hey he played with him for a few years in college -- so I wouldn't exactly discount what he has to say.

 

Great.  Moore has had a pretty storied career for the Bills thus far, too, to say nothing of his supreme achievements for the Vikings. 

692009[/snapback]

[PromoTheRobot]

I was talking with a Bills fan I met today, and he said the Bills should have drafted Leinart and gotten rid of Losman.  Assuming hotter heads prevailed and this ridiculous suggestion became reality, I wanted to know why, and the gentleman said he "didn't like Losman's attitude."  Now, I've heard rumors, and I saw pre-draft reports, but I would love to see some of those who are in the anti-Losman camp come up with something written, some direct quotes, or some statements from Bills players that really call attention to Losman's poor attitude.

 

What I have heard are measured responses from Bills players that seemed to say that they didn't think that his being handed the job was good for him or the team, a notion it seems Losman himself agrees with.  What I have read are articles that seem to say the guy values the chance he's been given, is conscientious, likes Buffalo, and understands he needs to work hard to earn the job this year.  What I'm looking for is undisputable information that says the guy is what a lot here seem to think he is.

 

What I'm sick of is unsubstantiated evidence that is giving the guy a bad rap and seen as grounds for judgment when the guy has started all of 8 NFL games.  Judging him on his football merits, or worries on a lack thereof, are something quite different and, IMO, justifiable to this point.  I still think the investment and the reports on him merit a real chance this year.

 

Those who feel differently and have some statements to back it up, step up, why don't you?

691805[/snapback]

You want to know what they mean by "attitude?" The fact that JP was named starter without a competition. That rubbed the veterans the wrong way. JP did nothing wrong. He studied hard and tried to do his job, but he got tagged as TD's "golden boy." You remember high school...it's the same thing.

 

PTR

[Bill from NYC]

You want to know what they mean by "attitude?"  The fact that JP was named starter without a competition.  That rubbed the veterans the wrong way.  JP did nothing wrong.  He studied hard and tried to do his job, but he got tagged as TD's "golden boy."  You remember high school...it's the same thing.

 

PTR

692083[/snapback]

 

I agree, although it was certainly not his fault.

 

As a long time fan, I was a little disturbed watching JP hop around the sidelines. I found his act to be a bit too animated for my tastes, at least until he proves something. Imo, this did not endear him to the vets either. Again, this is mere speculation.

On the field and on the sidelines, he seemed to have little control, but I am not sure where "attitude" enters into the above. By all reports, he is a hard worker.

 

We can only hope that JP has matured, because he does have the tools that one would need to be a successful NFL QB, and that says a lot. Otoh, I hope that they pull the plug soon if he continues to play poorly.

I mean, they DID dump Bledsoe who is 10x better than JP, at least for now.

[1billsfan]

I mean, they DID dump Bledsoe who is 10x better than JP, at least for now.

692096[/snapback]

 

Bledsoe's passer rating in his first starting season was 65.

 

Losman's passer rating was 64.9.

 

The Bills were supposed to be a "smash mouth" team with a offensive line full of panty waists. When Malarkey started to break out the bag of tricks it was all over and Losman never had a chance. Get off Losman's back and stop pining for a guy in the twilight of his career.

 

BTW, did you know that Losman had 6 pass completions of over 40 yards in his first eight games of starting, Bledsoe had only 5 in the first 12 games he started? Plus Losman has excellent escapability that Bledsoe never had. The book has yet to be written on Losman's career. Bledsoe is on his last chapter, he should call it "Sitting Duck".

[Coach Tuesday]

I agree, although it was certainly not his fault.

 

As a long time fan, I was a little disturbed watching JP hop around the sidelines. I found his act to be a bit too animated for my tastes, at least until he proves something. Imo, this did not endear him to the vets either. Again, this is mere speculation.

On the field and on the sidelines, he seemed to have little control, but I am not sure where "attitude" enters into the above. By all reports, he is a hard worker.

 

We can only hope that JP has matured, because he does have the tools that one would need to be a successful NFL QB, and that says a lot. Otoh, I hope that they pull the plug soon if he continues to play poorly.

I mean, they DID dump Bledsoe who is 10x better than JP, at least for now.

692096[/snapback]

 

That is right. Forget attitude - JP's problem is that he plays like a total spaz. He won't ever be successful until he learns to calm down in the pocket.

[Nanker]

I'm neither a JP supporter nor a basher - yet.

 

He came to his first training camp with the moniker "Coach Killer" and that made me curious enough to do some googling. I couldn't come up with any direct quotes from players - but I did find something about him being a "Coach Killer" from an unidentified college scout who seemed to have an axe to grind.

 

My take on it at that time is that this scout/booster had big ties to UCLA and JP had bolted UCLA to go to Tulane where he could get some actual playing time. He probably committed to the HC that he was in the program and found out he would be 12th string for a couple of seasons and said, "I'm outta here" pissing off the boosters who probably paid for a new car, threads, a boom box and barenaked babes to get him to commit to UCLA in the first place.

 

"Arrogance" is in the eye of the beholder and doesn't bother me per se. Is Brette Farve arrogant? Was Jim Kelly? Is Tom Brady? JP may have the arrogant part of excellence down. What's in question is his command of the NFL game.

 

TD gave up a TON to get this kid, and unless he becomes a man this year it could be all for naught.

Not the original snake bite, but close enough to the original attack to get some of the flavor of the venom:

A JP mock draft "coach killer" blurb A JP mock draft "Coach Killer" blurb

 

More of the same chit

 

So easily cut and pasted for Internet replication by hacks of all persuasions, and thus a "reputation" is born and a "truth" is cemented into the popular culture.

[stevewin]

As above I am not a JP basher or disciple.

 

One thing that is hard for me to get past with JP is incidents from his his rookie season. When Vincent hit him and he broke his leg, *NOTE: Vincent obviously did not do it with the intention of breaking his leg*, but still it was obvious (to me) that Vincent gave him a little shot in practice because he didn't like JP's attitude/behavior. Then fast forward to the NE game when Mularkey threw him in there completely by surprise - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that was done to send him a message and tell him he better start getting his head on straight and taking a different approach to the game.

 

So much is said of how much he studied tape with Wyche etc. before last season as a measure of how inherently studious and hard-working he is - but that was not how he was when he showed up. Sure you can say "Well - he was a rookie, what do you expect?" - BUT, even if he was a "trout-mouthed" rookie and somewhat overwhelmed - if being so hardworking and studious was really part of his make-up, why was it so completely missing his rookie season? It certainly did not appear that he was acting in a way that earned respect from other players or the coaches that first year.

 

Separate form any feelings about his performance on the field, I personally thought Bledsoe was a pretty stand-up guy, and the thing that always stands out in my mind when he left was his incredulitity that they were handing the job over to JP in particular. Sure he was bitter about the way he left, but the shock and awe he displayed about JP being handed the job I think spoke volumes. It was obvious JP didn't do much to earn his respect, and he didn't think JP was anywhere close to being ready for a variety of reasons - and I think a lot of other players felt the same. Some maybe still do.

[Nanker]

Here's some more for your insatiable appetite for knowledge

 

Losman left UCLA as a Freshman QB after a dispute with the coach.

 

"In our view, the loss of JP Losman was crucial to the relative decline of UCLA football.

(Don't 'cha think that situation could engender some hate-filled venon against JP in his explits at Tulane and beyond? No? Think again.)

 

Here's a goodie - and a GREAT avatar in the Credits for some Waller no doubt.

 

"A little background about Losman. A prep star from Venice, Calif., he originally signed on to play at UCLA but left in the spring of 1999 before ever taking a game snap. It’s something he doesn’t want to address anymore.

 

‘UCLA was just too close to home, and I had to get away,” he said. “I was not learning. I was not learning in terms of outside football. Football’s football, but when you’re a football player, you definitely have a life outside of football. And while at UCLA, I was so bombarded with so much family pressure and friends coming up to the college. It [didn’t] really feel like I was in college.

 

“… I realized I needed to get away. And so that’s what I did.”

 

He sat out the 1999 season at Tulane per NCAA transfer rules. He saw extensive action as a freshman in 2000, rotating with now-Redskins QB Patrick Ramsey. His potential was evident, particularly in a game vs. East Carolina, when he completed 20-of-35 passes for 299 yards and two scores. A knee injury knocked him out for much of the 2001 season, but he returned in October to start for an injured Ramsey and threw for a career-high 384 yards vs. Army.

 

With Ramsey off to the pros, the starting job was Losman’s in 2002. But it took some time for Tulane to become his team. A turning point came when Losman called the Green Wave together..."

 

It's easy to see how competiting with Patric Ramsey and his favorite receivers was a precursor to competiting with Kelly Holcomb and his favorite receivers, and had similar sort of fallout.