makbeer Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Travis was terrible. Anyone remember the horror of watching him try and run in the red zone or on 3rd and short in that year when Willis showed up and nearly saved our season by reminding us what iw as like to score a rushing TD? The one thing about Bills fans is they seem to have such fond memories of the past and such jaded views on the present and future. Willis will be fine, the kid is a workhorse and spent last season behind the worst offensive line in the history of the franchise. When LT averaged under 4 YPC for san diego 2 years ago I don't remember anyone saying he sucked. If you look beyond stats and watch Willis run vs watch TH run, there's no comparison, TH is an average if not bad NFL running back. He's not even mentioned in the mix in Tennessee anymore, and for good reason. Everyone is claiming it's Chris Brown as the speedy slashers, and LenDale as the bus - Travis is the odd one out. Heck, if Travis could have managed to not fall over his own feet in clutch yardage situations that last year with Drew, we WOULD have made the playoffs. He blew two games right at the end by tripping on himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I know this is a little off kilter from the original point in this thread...but I just love the fact that we have a veteran pounder like A. Thomas behind Magehee..... Now when Willis goes out for a blow.....I feel like we can actually still continue to pound the ball without our running back getting knocked down by a large gust of wind..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I know this is a little off kilter from the original point in this thread...but I just love the fact that we have a veteran pounder like A. Thomas behind Magehee..... Now when Willis goes out for a blow.....I feel like we can actually still continue to pound the ball without our running back getting knocked down by a large gust of wind..... 689354[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWesternBill Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Actually Willis had fumble issues this past year but no one would say anything about it. Travis last full season he was pretty good. Better than Willis was last year hanging on the rock. 689286[/snapback] Did i miss something?? Last time i checked willis had ONE, yes that's O-N-E fumble last year! FYI Travis Henry had SEVEN, that's 7, fumbles in 2003. Now im not saying WM is better than TH. What I am saying is that your comment makes me angry cause although it is your opinion, I could say in FACT that TH fumbled seven times the amount that WM did, in both their respective last full seasons with the bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Regardless of how it's worded or the symantics invloved, Willis is the fastest Bill to reach 2000 rushing yards. Would I take thurman over him? Hell yeah! Would I take Travis over him? Hell no! I was one of the bigger Travis supporters in his day, but I realized the value of not fumbling and being able to make yards out of nothing, two of Willis's positive traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Thurman shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence with WM.Thurman is the best Bills back that I have ever SEEN. Willis doesnt even come close. I will go on to say that Willis isnt even the second best Bills back that I have ever seen. I still put Travis over him until like others have said...the jury is out. 689124[/snapback] ill go on record as well that willis isnt the 2nd best runningback buffalo has had.........actually even though he got into some trouble oj simpson is still the best back the bills have had and thurman 2nd to him which is not dissing thurmal at all i loved tt............i dont even think willis is 3rd on the list(yet) anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makbeer Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I don't think it's fair to be comparing Willis to OJ or Thurman yet...let the guy have a few more seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a player to be named later Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Willis is a Top 5 pick in the draft before blowing out his knee. I think he has finally reached his pre draft form. If anyone questions his commitment you can look at his rehab. If you have a decent o line this kid could be a superstar! I don't care if he is in camp or not. He doesn't come into camp overweight or anything. whats the problem? I can't believe that we are arguing about this we should be happy with the 3rd round pick that we got for Travis. Willis is a better back than Travis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Willis is a Top 5 pick in the draft before blowing out his knee. I think he has finally reached his pre draft form. If anyone questions his commitment you can look at his rehab. If you have a decent o line this kid could be a superstar! I don't care if he is in camp or not. He doesn't come into camp overweight or anything. whats the problem? I can't believe that we are arguing about this we should be happy with the 3rd round pick that we got for Travis. Willis is a better back than Travis... 689502[/snapback] Well, last season, a long gain of 27 yards, 4 runs over 20 yards, 5 rushing td's and an average of 78 yards per game didn't exactly make other clubs wring their hands, rip up their defensive plans, and burn the midnight oil so they could have a chance at stopping the self-proclaimed best rb in the NFL. I don't think lb's and safeties around the league are saying anything like uh oh, WMG is past the LOS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Bump his 4&5 to make room. WM hasn't done it yet and Travis weren't that good. 689262[/snapback] A back who was really first rate and was a man who really contributed to our AFL championship seasons was Wray Carlton. I think you'd have had to see him play but he was definitely in the top ten of our running backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Well, last season, a long gain of 27 yards, 4 runs over 20 yards, 5 rushing td's and an average of 78 yards per game didn't exactly make other clubs wring their hands, rip up their defensive plans, and burn the midnight oil so they could have a chance at stopping the self-proclaimed best rb in the NFL. I don't think lb's and safeties around the league are saying anything like uh oh, WMG is past the LOS... 689555[/snapback] I had posted the following back in December when this same issue came up. Because some of you guys are obsessed with whether "long" runs are the mark of a great running back, let's put things in perspective. The following are the longest runs by season for one of the greatest backs to play for the Buffalo Bills and in the NFL: YEAR LONGEST RUN 1988 37 1989 38 1990 80 1991 33 1992 44 1993 27 1994 29 1995 49 1996 36 1997 24 1998 26 1999 10 2000 25 Guess who? (if you took more than a nanosecond to guess Thurman, you really have not been a Bills fan for too long) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Thurman shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence with WM.Thurman is the best Bills back that I have ever SEEN. Willis doesnt even come close. I will go on to say that Willis isnt even the second best Bills back that I have ever seen. I still put Travis over him until like others have said...the jury is out. 689124[/snapback] Agreed. I will always remember Thurman getting a first down after running into Bryan Cox on pure will to get the first down and clinch a playoff win for Buffalo. Seeing Cox that mad was awesome. Thurman Thomas blocking on passing plays was beautiful. He took on guys twice his size and won. Well, maybe not TWICE his size, but he took on blitzing linebackers and DEs all the time, and gave Jimbo the extra time he needed. McGahee? Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 689359[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 thanks for catching that - just edited it. 689216[/snapback] My pleasure. Just hoping to make your very good post a little bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Agreed. I will always remember Thurman getting a first down after running into Bryan Cox on pure will to get the first down and clinch a playoff win for Buffalo. Seeing Cox that mad was awesome. Thurman Thomas blocking on passing plays was beautiful. He took on guys twice his size and won. Well, maybe not TWICE his size, but he took on blitzing linebackers and DEs all the time, and gave Jimbo the extra time he needed. McGahee? Not even close. 689631[/snapback] Agreed. And as far as TH goes - he's not even in the same ballpark. I swear he dressed half his games wearing boxing gloves and a Toreador cape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I had posted the following back in December when this same issue came up. Because some of you guys are obsessed with whether "long" runs are the mark of a great running back, let's put things in perspective. The following are the longest runs by season for one of the greatest backs to play for the Buffalo Bills and in the NFL: YEAR LONGEST RUN 1988 37 1989 38 1990 80 1991 33 1992 44 1993 27 1994 29 1995 49 1996 36 1997 24 1998 26 1999 10 2000 25 Guess who? (if you took more than a nanosecond to guess Thurman, you really have not been a Bills fan for too long) 689627[/snapback] Seems like the Bills aren't very clever in their ability to detect breakaway backs. But I guess 5 td's, 3.9 ypc, 4 jaunts over 20 yards etc. is the current expectation of a top rb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 The worst thing about aspects of this debate, many debates on TSW, and unfortunately a seeming;y growing part of our culture is that folks seem to want to pretend that the extreme about the other side and also there side is true. Sorry these athletes are human and it just does not work that way in real life. If you read this thread the some arguments would have you believe that Travis was the greatest thing since sliced bread and we downgraded horribly to WM (who merely got to 2000 yards rushing faster than any RB in Bills history). Alternately some folks talk about Henry as though he sucked, could never hold on to the rock and we lost nothing when trading him awat. Both extreme views are incorrect, Travis was a very good RB for us who sprung from a 3rd round pick to earn and deserve his Pro Bowl reserve nod picking up over 1400 yards rushing and hauling in over 40 recents, I think he deserved the Pro Bowl reserve nod even though he did give up 6 fumbles that year. Fumbles are a bad thing, but the good news is that with, good coaching assessment of the sometimes subtle changes in carrying style needed, diligent work, and some good fortune and bounces by this oddly shaped ball the problem can be remedied as it was by Henry and by Tiki Barber. Yet TH did have issues such as a lack of outside speed which allowed LBs to cheat to the inside and substance abuse issues. TD made a great deal by taking advantage of TH getting himself in financial trouble to buy an extra year of his rights for chump change, then he could read the TH character issue handwriting on the wall and was smart enough to see that the extra year ownership of TH rights allowed the Bills to draft a top 5 draft talent at #23 and let him rehab and not play for a year. In addition, TD was nothing short of brilliant and tough as nails as he simply sar on the draft pick while folks like Shelton were waived in his face and the draft yielded good RBs to our potential trade partners. However he read the market correctly to knoe he could still hold out and got a 1st day pick in exchange for TH. TH was neither totally without value nor totally a great player, and folks descending into extremes may make for good Hannity and Colmes entertainment but makes for really bad football arguing. Such is the case with WM, he made a great comeback from a devastating injury, and successfully rushed for a ton of yards. However, he ain't perfect and questions need to be answered about how much of the rushing outage he suffered last year was due to the meltdown of Bills blocking and offense and how much was on him. The flat out answer to what should we do about WM? Wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 The worst thing about aspects of this debate, many debates on TSW, and unfortunately a seeming;y growing part of our culture is that folks seem to want to pretend that the extreme about the other side and also there side is true. 689641[/snapback] No snit, no revelation there. Observed and noted for years. However, WMG's level of performanc can be found in the FA market on the cheap; getting 70 - 80 yards per game out of a pedestrian rb these days is as simple as falling off the proverbial log...spending a #1 on this guy was a huge dice roll. It came up craps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 as you can see, i'm including receiving yards in this equation, as any credible evaluation of a running back should. 689071[/snapback] a running back who can catch passes Brilliant!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 689632[/snapback] From Willis' Orlando Sentinel Interview.... Q: What kind of person were you in high school? A: Woo, I did everything you could imagine. Skipped school. I played around a lot. Q: Were you a ladies man in high school? A: Naw, I was actually faithful. Q: You almost say that like you can't believe you were faithful. A: I can believe I was. I can't believe how I am now. Q: Do you think you'll always live in Miami? A: I think I'll always come back to Miami. I don't know about live in it. I need to get out of it because I'm bad. Sideline for a blow...youbetcha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts