mcgahee NOT as productive as thomas in 1st 2 years

[dave mcbride]

a number of people here have repeatedly said that mcgahee got to 2000 yards faster than any bills running back in history and therefore had the 2 most productive first season ever by a bills running back. this is wrong. in no way, shape, or form was mcgahee more productive in his first 2 seasons than thurman thomas (and i'm excluding mcgahee's first true first season, which he sat out).

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/McGaWi00.htm

 

mcgahee: 2,722 total yards from scrimmage; 18 tds; 4.13 yards per touch (659 touches).

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/ThomTh00.htm

 

thomas: 3002 total yards from scrimmage; 14 tds; 5.15 yards per touch (583 touches).

 

as you can see, i'm including receiving yards in this equation, as any credible evaluation of a running back should. people might say that we don't pass to mcgahee enough, which may or may not be true, but no one can seriously say that he's even in the same league as thurman thomas as a receiver.

[nick in* england]

Yeah that McGahee he's just Antowain Smith with more hype...

[tennesseeboy]

I've always believed we made a mistake getting rid of Henry. His numbers would have been much more impressive (as would our won-loss record) if only that Moron Gregg Williams would have run him more. While I believe we made a mistake getting rid of Henry, I think McGahee is in the Losman category...yet to prove he's any good.

[GG]

I've always believed we made a mistake getting rid of Henry.  His numbers would have been much more impressive (as would our won-loss record) if only that Moron Gregg Williams would have run him more. While I believe we made a mistake getting rid of Henry, I think McGahee is in the Losman category...yet to prove he's any good.

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Yup, Henry would have certainly been a great contributor while sitting in rehab.

[dave mcbride]

Yup, Henry would have certainly been a great contributor while sitting in rehab.

689084[/snapback]

hey -- it worked for bruce smith!

[tennesseeboy]

I'd be happy with four yards a carry, or 3.8 as he had with Tennessee. The guy had a four week suspension (like Bruce Smith and others). I'm not looking for a guy to date my sister...I think we'd be better off looking for a half back who can run the frigging ball. Henry did it better. Jury's still out on the other guy.

[GG]

I'd be happy with four yards a carry, or 3.8 as he had with Tennessee.

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As opposed to the 3.8 yds a carry that McGahee had with the Bills?

[Nanker]

Uhh, Dave... you double popped the linky to Willis and didn't give Thurman's which is this:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/ThomTh00.htm

 

Thumal would probably have done more - except you might remember our GM kept the rookie on the bench a lot because we had the World-Beater Ronnie "BigHeart" Harmon as the "Go-To Veteran" in the backfield.

 

TT was nearly without peer as a pass-catching back AND he could block the lights out of a red-dog or blitz. Willis may never become a TT type world class RB, but he's better than Shaud Williams, Lionel Gates, Anthony Thomas, Fred Jackson and God-forbid - Joe Burns.

 

As for Travis: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/HenrTr00.htm

2,655 Total Yards for TH vs. 2,722 for WM. That's pretty even in my book. But Travis was kept in on 3rd down a lot more by GW than WM was by MM. IIRC. And certainly TT was kept in as "THE Go-To Guy" by our GM.

[Billsjunkie]

Thurman shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence with WM.

Thurman is the best Bills back that I have ever SEEN.

Willis doesnt even come close. I will go on to say that Willis isnt even the second best Bills back that I have ever seen. I still put Travis over him until like others have said...the jury is out.

[dave mcbride]

Uhh, Dave... you double popped the linky to Willis and didn't give Thurman's which is this:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/ThomTh00.htm

 

Thumal would probably have done more - except you might remember our GM kept the rookie on the bench a lot because we had the World-Beater Ronnie "BigHeart" Harmon as the "Go-To Veteran" in the backfield.

 

TT was nearly without peer as a pass-catching back AND he could block the lights out of a red-dog or blitz. Willis may never become a TT type world class RB, but he's better than Shaud Williams, Lionel Gates, Anthony Thomas, Fred Jackson and God-forbid - Joe Burns.

 

As for Travis: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/HenrTr00.htm

2,655 Total Yards for TH vs. 2,722 for WM. That's pretty even in my book. But Travis was kept in on 3rd down a lot more by GW than WM was by MM. IIRC. And certainly TT was kept in as "THE Go-To Guy" by our GM.

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thanks for catching that - just edited it.

[silvermike]

Thurman shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence with WM.

Thurman is the best Bills back that I have ever SEEN.

Willis doesnt even come close. I will go on to say that Willis isnt even the second best Bills back that I have ever seen. I still put Travis over him until like others have said...the jury is out.

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If you're putting Thurman above Willis, and giving Travis the #2 spot, what do you do with OJ Simpson and Cookie Gilchrist?

[Mikie2times]

If you're putting Thurman above Willis, and giving Travis the #2 spot, what do you do with OJ Simpson and Cookie Gilchrist?

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Unfortunately I still think Juice is the best pure RUNNER in Bills history. If I had to rank the top 5 it would probably be

 

1. Juice

2. Thurman

3. Cookie

4. Willis

5. Travis

 

Willis and Travis are equal but I suspect Willis will surpass him this year in terms of production in a Bills uniform. You also have to figure Willis should get at least slightly better with more healing time so I'll give him the nod over Travis.

[stuckincincy]

Unfortunately I still think Juice is the best pure RUNNER in Bills history.  If I had to rank the top 5 it would probably be

 

1. Juice

2. Thurman

3. Cookie

4. Willis

5. Travis

 

Willis and Travis are equal but I suspect Willis will surpass him this year in terms of production in a Bills uniform. You also have to figure Willis should get at least slightly better with more healing time so I'll give him the nod over Travis.

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I'd find a spot there for Joe Cribbs and Jim Braxton.

[Beerball]

I'd find a spot there for Joe Cribbs and Jim Braxton.

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Bump his 4&5 to make room. WM hasn't done it yet and Travis weren't that good.

[BuckeyeBill]

The Bills currently have another Thomas who reached 2000 yards pretty quickly. A-Train's stats...

 

2245 total yards on 538 touches (4.17 yards per touch)

 

Originally when I read the title of the post I thought you WERE referring to A-Thomas.

[BuckeyeBill]

Everyone seems to forget Travis Henry's biggest problem. Now that he's gone... the idea of his problem seems to have disappeared too.

 

Doesn't ANYBODY remember TH's fumbling problems? Willis is better at holding onto the rock. So was TT for that matter.

[BUFFALOTONE]

Who cares who is more productive. Willis is our guy now. We know he can play ball it is just a matter of putting the right guys in front of him to do so. Thurman had a pretty good line and QB to help him out.

 

So far Willis has had squat to work with.

 

Yes he is a young millionaire what else is he going to do in the offseason. He will grow up and learn to focus his mind totally on football. Its obvious he didnt let that injury hold him back. The kids a fighter and will rise up in the end.

[Pyrite Gal]

a number of people here have repeatedly said that mcgahee got to 2000 yards faster than any bills running back in history and therefore had the 2 most productive first season ever by a bills running back.

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I know I have prominenly and repetively pointed out that WM got to 2000 yard rushing quicker than any RB in Bills history and this is notable when you consider this includes RB studs like OJ and TT.

 

However, I have never believed that this fact means that WM is a more productive RB than OJ and Thurman. Folks may have falsely jumped to that conclusion or maybe in some post somewhere I accidently said something which could be construed that way. However, just as you said it would be stupid to conclude that WM is more productive back simply because he put up more rushing yards early in his career that OJ or TT.

 

That being said, the accomplishment is an impressive one from any sane point of view. it does not mean WM is the perfect RB, but it does mean he ain't simply chopped live either.

 

Citing WM's rushing accomplishments has no value if one wants to assert he is a more productive RB than the Bills greats. However, this factoid does have great value in response to those who argue that Willis sucks as an RB, that he should be cut becaue he is too Moulds like in non-childrearing, or are simply outraged that he has only averaged 3.8 rushes per carry last year when 5 or 6 of the the top 10 RB yard gainers averaged 4.3 or less.

 

Perhaps you were referring to some other posts that did make this farcical jump to somehow conlcude this adds up to WM being a more productive RB than the Bills greats. However, one thing which is typical of a lot of the banter back and forth on TSW (or Haniity and Colmes or Nancy Grace's show on CNN) is rather than trying to respond to an opposing point of view in a way that increases knowledge by finding consensus, folks devolve into drawing bizarre and outrageous conclusions from these points and then arguing that the original point was outrageous.

 

Yes it is outreageous to conclude WM is more productive RB than Thuirman, but it is simply the facts that WM rushed for 2000 yards quicker than any other Bill and this is part of the reason why it would be outrageous to declare WM a failure at this point.

 

It is a fact that his performace has disappointed some folks, but this says alot more about these fans outrageous expectation not based on a sense of real football than it says something about WMs performance as a player.

[Billsjunkie]

If you're putting Thurman above Willis, and giving Travis the #2 spot, what do you do with OJ Simpson and Cookie Gilchrist?

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I said that I ever WATCHED.

I'm only 26 years old. I really haven't seen a lot of clips of them running let alone being able to watch them while I was alive.

[Billsjunkie]

Everyone seems to forget Travis Henry's biggest problem.  Now that he's gone... the idea of his problem seems to have disappeared too.

 

Doesn't ANYBODY remember TH's fumbling problems?  Willis is better at holding onto the rock.  So was TT for that matter.

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Actually Willis had fumble issues this past year but no one would say anything about it. Travis last full season he was pretty good. Better than Willis was last year hanging on the rock.