John from Riverside Posted May 10, 2006 Posted May 10, 2006 With different coaches and personnel of course..... I always thought the play was to control the game with defense.....pound the ball with McGehee and run play action pass with Losman...... Is our defense good enough this year to return to a form where we can do that? Differences between number 1 rated defense and last years disaster? - Loss of Pat Williams and Takeo Spikes and Ron Edwards Changes between last year and this upcoming year - Loss of Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy - Addition of Takeo Spikes, Larry Tripplett, John McCargo, Kyle Williams, Daunte Whitner, Ko Simpson, Ashton Yobuty, Does the defense hold the fort down this year and allow us to bring our offense along slowly?
Rubes Posted May 10, 2006 Posted May 10, 2006 I thought the game plan last year was to-- - pretend like we're going to run the ball - tread water on first and second down - throw dump offs on third down that are too short to make the first down - think up some radical trick play on fourth down Hell, we don't need a good defense for that.
gobillsinytown Posted May 10, 2006 Posted May 10, 2006 I thought the game plan last year was to-- - pretend like we're going to run the ball - tread water on first and second down - throw dump offs on third down that are too short to make the first down - think up some radical trick play on fourth down Hell, we don't need a good defense for that. 688608[/snapback] You forgot: -bench any player who doesn't agree -desperately shuffle positions -lose winnable games due to radical trick plays and poor game management -do such a bizarre job of managing the team that the 87 year old owner is forced to come to the office and have a private talk with one of your vetran players. -lose job at the end of the year.
/dev/null Posted May 10, 2006 Posted May 10, 2006 i hope they improve on last years offensive strategery 1st down ??? 2nd down ??? 3rd down ??? 4th down punt
John from Riverside Posted May 10, 2006 Author Posted May 10, 2006 Well....that sure was how it turned out even if it wasn't the plan....
Pyrite Gal Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 ? - Loss of Pat Williams and Takeo Spikes and Ron Edwards Changes between last year and this upcoming year - Loss of Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy - Addition of Takeo Spikes, Larry Tripplett, John McCargo, Kyle Williams, Daunte Whitner, Ko Simpson, Ashton Yobuty, Does the defense hold the fort down this year and allow us to bring our offense along slowly? 688604[/snapback] Comments of your thoughts 1. I think that a much bigger factor than the loss of Phat Pat (really the on;y change until TKO got injured in the third game was that the D could see in the pre-season and when we did not offensively destroy a worst in the NFL Texas that TD had handed the reins to JP who MIGHT be good one day but in essence he turned the 2005 regular season into exteded training camp. The D shut down the Texas running game (yeah but tell me more) but Cadillac and Tampa ran all over them and AT was running over them before TKO got hurt. Phat Pat was only on the field for less than 2/3 of the D snaps the year before and Edwards filled in well as a reserve, but the heart went out of the D when they realized as many failings as Bledsoe had, TD had simply cut the better chance to win now and though it only made a marginal difference that is all it takes to turn a very good D into a very bad D in the NFL. It also did not help that there was a new D under LeBeau in 2003 and teams had no film on it and it changed up a bit as Gray took full control in 2004, but Gray did not alter the implementation or personnel enough to win in 2005 and we got beat up. Crowell filled in admirably for Spike but he was replacing a fellow who deserved back-to-back Pro Bowl nods. Losing our 3rd best DT after we let the 2nd walk away did not help though we already were getting shredded by the run. So i would dianose the failures of last year differently. 2. For this year add the loss of former starter Edwards to the loss of Milloy and Adams. Without idndicting these individual players I'm not sure this is not addition by subtraction. Adams is a very good player but no a good teammate. He did not seem to play with the discipline needed last year as we needed (particularly with the loss of Phat Pat) a stay at home DT against the run but he chose to play his great first step penetrating game anyway. Even with his buddt PW here the braintrust had to argue with Adams when they pulled him on passing downs in favor of the rotation and using Denney at DT where he sometimes dropped back to cover the middle pass and allowed the LBs to come in the zone blitz. The cover 2 actually probably fits Adams penetrating style better than the zone blitz. but his recalcitrance, cap savings and age made him a good cut. Milloy was a great guy to have (he improved the Bills from his first review of film when he called out his teammates for laughing at a fellow teammate who got bulldozed in the film. Milloy made it clear that he had learned during NE's SB run that this was not how championship teams got their teammate to play better). However, though he was a great duy to have he was clearly on the backside of his career. Once he got a recurriing injury to his hand that made it harder for him to play the pinching/tackling safety our zone blitz demanded he and we were done. Particularly given his cap hit and that while the cover 2 may extend the career of coverage guy Vincent while forcing Milloy to play more centerfield (both he and TV have lost a step or two but TV started with a lot more speed to lose than Milloy. this was a good cut. Edwards was a great back-up but was not up to starting his second year or last year. This was also a good cut. 3, The additions make more sense with the D scheme changes we are making. A. Whitner is a legit first rounder thst believably some boards had hgher thn Huff as in any case he was 1 of 2 safties likely to merit starting immediately. Once Detroit picked Huff we had to pick Whitner at 8 because we could not risk going with the talented but rehabbing from a major injury Allen (the thrid safety drafted) as a replacement for Milloy. Whitner's rep as a ballhawk and hitter point to good athleticism and reactions at least if not good play diaunosis skill at the college level. The braiintrust more important was impressed with his character and likely coachability which will be important as he learns the cover of the cover 2 and it is to be hoped learns pass coverage lessons listening to and watching Vincent. B. I have my doubts about McCargo starting immediately but given his rep as he clearly was judged the 3rd best DT drafted (no DTs were drated at all in the 2nd round) and apparently was climbing up several boards to likely go fast in the 2nd (if he made it there at all as apparently NYG had their eye on him at theend of the 1st round) he may surprise. At any rate he will be immediately part of the DT rotation even if he does not start. Something unusual appears about to happen as our top 4 DTs maxout at 304 lbs, so either all the assumptions folks are making about who will play in the D scheme none of us has seen yet may be wrong or we are gonna go shopping for grady Jackson in FA. C. The news on TKO;s recovery sounds good tp this point. This could merely be jype or positive reinforcement for his long road back. However, we can at least take solace in knowing 80% of TKO is like 100% of most LBs and that until we cut oast starter Posey there is depth at LB. D. Yobouty is a great BAP pick but most seem to feel he is undisciplined and needed another year in college and actually as long as we have this apparent 1st round talent having him get that training against Pros, in our scheme and learning from TV ain't bad for a player whose main utiility may be we do not need to sweat the Clements negotiations at all. Your last question is the $64,000 one and the only credible answer is we'll see. Yet. as constantly demonstrated by my buds on TSW there is no requirement that we fans be credible with our posts. My sense is that: IF we find a good way to stop the other team from running with out less than classic demographic weight of our top 4 DTs. IF TKO comes back good enough or we get a good enough fill in performance from our other LBs IF the ST plays with the same effectiveness they have the last two year, and IF we get a credible QB performance out of Losman, OR Holcomb, OR Nall and IF we get good back-ups for an adequate starting 5 on the OL. and IF Fairchild gets a good imitation out of the Bills skill players of the high flying Rams team, we may even compete for the playoffs in a league where worst to first movement is possible like never before.
jarthur31 Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 Unless, we improve drastically on run defense, our D will suck until that is fixed. The offense will feature the passing game only to take the heat off of Willis and the O-line. I really think we'll do it this way this year.
Rico Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 With different coaches and personnel of course..... I always thought the play was to control the game with defense.....pound the ball with McGehee and run play action pass with Losman...... Is our defense good enough this year to return to a form where we can do that? Differences between number 1 rated defense and last years disaster? - Loss of Pat Williams and Takeo Spikes and Ron Edwards Changes between last year and this upcoming year - Loss of Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy - Addition of Takeo Spikes, Larry Tripplett, John McCargo, Kyle Williams, Daunte Whitner, Ko Simpson, Ashton Yobuty, Does the defense hold the fort down this year and allow us to bring our offense along slowly? 688604[/snapback] People are expecting an awful lot from rookies.... I think more realistically you'll see this D improved but still struggling early in the season, then getting better as the year ends. As for the O, unless JMac is a miracle worker + unless JP really steps up, I see another very long year, especially if we get hit with any kind of injuries.
Nick in RaChaCha Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 With different coaches and personnel of course..... I always thought the play was to control the game with defense.....pound the ball with McGehee and run play action pass with Losman...... Is our defense good enough this year to return to a form where we can do that? Differences between number 1 rated defense and last years disaster? - Loss of Pat Williams and Takeo Spikes and Ron Edwards Changes between last year and this upcoming year - Loss of Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy - Addition of Takeo Spikes, Larry Tripplett, John McCargo, Kyle Williams, Daunte Whitner, Ko Simpson, Ashton Yobuty, Does the defense hold the fort down this year and allow us to bring our offense along slowly? 688604[/snapback] The biggest problem we had was a weak line in the middle and a blitzing scheme that everone figured out how to defend. - If we can plug the middle and put pressure on the QB (note I didn't say sacks we just need pressure)without blitzing a safety and LB we will be a top 10 D.
BUFFALOTONE Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 Comments of your thoughts 1. I think that a much bigger factor than the loss of Phat Pat (really the on;y change until TKO got injured in the third game was that the D could see in the pre-season and when we did not offensively destroy a worst in the NFL Texas that TD had handed the reins to JP who MIGHT be good one day but in essence he turned the 2005 regular season into exteded training camp. The D shut down the Texas running game (yeah but tell me more) but Cadillac and Tampa ran all over them and AT was running over them before TKO got hurt. Phat Pat was only on the field for less than 2/3 of the D snaps the year before and Edwards filled in well as a reserve, but the heart went out of the D when they realized as many failings as Bledsoe had, TD had simply cut the better chance to win now and though it only made a marginal difference that is all it takes to turn a very good D into a very bad D in the NFL. It also did not help that there was a new D under LeBeau in 2003 and teams had no film on it and it changed up a bit as Gray took full control in 2004, but Gray did not alter the implementation or personnel enough to win in 2005 and we got beat up. Crowell filled in admirably for Spike but he was replacing a fellow who deserved back-to-back Pro Bowl nods. Losing our 3rd best DT after we let the 2nd walk away did not help though we already were getting shredded by the run. So i would dianose the failures of last year differently. 2. For this year add the loss of former starter Edwards to the loss of Milloy and Adams. Without idndicting these individual players I'm not sure this is not addition by subtraction. Adams is a very good player but no a good teammate. He did not seem to play with the discipline needed last year as we needed (particularly with the loss of Phat Pat) a stay at home DT against the run but he chose to play his great first step penetrating game anyway. Even with his buddt PW here the braintrust had to argue with Adams when they pulled him on passing downs in favor of the rotation and using Denney at DT where he sometimes dropped back to cover the middle pass and allowed the LBs to come in the zone blitz. The cover 2 actually probably fits Adams penetrating style better than the zone blitz. but his recalcitrance, cap savings and age made him a good cut. Milloy was a great guy to have (he improved the Bills from his first review of film when he called out his teammates for laughing at a fellow teammate who got bulldozed in the film. Milloy made it clear that he had learned during NE's SB run that this was not how championship teams got their teammate to play better). However, though he was a great duy to have he was clearly on the backside of his career. Once he got a recurriing injury to his hand that made it harder for him to play the pinching/tackling safety our zone blitz demanded he and we were done. Particularly given his cap hit and that while the cover 2 may extend the career of coverage guy Vincent while forcing Milloy to play more centerfield (both he and TV have lost a step or two but TV started with a lot more speed to lose than Milloy. this was a good cut. Edwards was a great back-up but was not up to starting his second year or last year. This was also a good cut. 3, The additions make more sense with the D scheme changes we are making. A. Whitner is a legit first rounder thst believably some boards had hgher thn Huff as in any case he was 1 of 2 safties likely to merit starting immediately. Once Detroit picked Huff we had to pick Whitner at 8 because we could not risk going with the talented but rehabbing from a major injury Allen (the thrid safety drafted) as a replacement for Milloy. Whitner's rep as a ballhawk and hitter point to good athleticism and reactions at least if not good play diaunosis skill at the college level. The braiintrust more important was impressed with his character and likely coachability which will be important as he learns the cover of the cover 2 and it is to be hoped learns pass coverage lessons listening to and watching Vincent. B. I have my doubts about McCargo starting immediately but given his rep as he clearly was judged the 3rd best DT drafted (no DTs were drated at all in the 2nd round) and apparently was climbing up several boards to likely go fast in the 2nd (if he made it there at all as apparently NYG had their eye on him at theend of the 1st round) he may surprise. At any rate he will be immediately part of the DT rotation even if he does not start. Something unusual appears about to happen as our top 4 DTs maxout at 304 lbs, so either all the assumptions folks are making about who will play in the D scheme none of us has seen yet may be wrong or we are gonna go shopping for grady Jackson in FA. C. The news on TKO;s recovery sounds good tp this point. This could merely be jype or positive reinforcement for his long road back. However, we can at least take solace in knowing 80% of TKO is like 100% of most LBs and that until we cut oast starter Posey there is depth at LB. D. Yobouty is a great BAP pick but most seem to feel he is undisciplined and needed another year in college and actually as long as we have this apparent 1st round talent having him get that training against Pros, in our scheme and learning from TV ain't bad for a player whose main utiility may be we do not need to sweat the Clements negotiations at all. Your last question is the $64,000 one and the only credible answer is we'll see. Yet. as constantly demonstrated by my buds on TSW there is no requirement that we fans be credible with our posts. My sense is that: IF we find a good way to stop the other team from running with out less than classic demographic weight of our top 4 DTs. IF TKO comes back good enough or we get a good enough fill in performance from our other LBs IF the ST plays with the same effectiveness they have the last two year, and IF we get a credible QB performance out of Losman, OR Holcomb, OR Nall and IF we get good back-ups for an adequate starting 5 on the OL. and IF Fairchild gets a good imitation out of the Bills skill players of the high flying Rams team, we may even compete for the playoffs in a league where worst to first movement is possible like never before. 688743[/snapback] If, If, If If.
Beerball Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 All I can say after reading the title for this thread is gawd I hope not!
Alaska Darin Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 I'll be happy if he refrains from the pregame and halftime "Get out there and suck" speech that Mularkey was so famous for.
Mark VI Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 I'll be happy if he refrains from the pregame and halftime "Get out there and suck" speech that Mularkey was so famous for. 689255[/snapback] Fotunately, April and his ST players were in the trainers room, out of earshot.
BUFFALOTONE Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 This defense is going to better than last years, it cant get any worse. We are going to put alot of youth on the field and I know that makes alot of us nervous, but we just added alot of speed also. This draft we had was tailor made for the cover 2 and in a few years if these guys stay healthy this will be a great defensive unit. This will be reminiscent of the tampa bay defense that won the SB. But we are going to take our lumps just like they did. Its good to have the mix of young guys and vets. The rookies will do whatever they are told, and the vets are there to make sure they do it right. This is a defense that will surprise alot of people. GO BILLS
BuffOrange Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 With different coaches and personnel of course..... I always thought the play was to control the game with defense.....pound the ball with McGehee and run play action pass with Losman...... Is our defense good enough this year to return to a form where we can do that? 688604[/snapback] I don't dispute that there is some correlation between the defense affecting what the offense does but I think most of you guys overestimate this relationship. We've had good defense paired with lousy offense plenty of times, and vice versa in 2002. Look at the Bucs game, the Saints game, the Panthers game, and the first Pats game where the defense was solid for the most part -- the offense still sucked. I am not saying the defense didn't suck last year, but I do think it's lame to blame them for so many of the offensive problems last year. The key to the offense (and the team in general IMO) will be QB play and how well we protect that QB. I mean honestly, the "defense wins championships" cliches and all that are nice, but has nobody else noticed that offensive production and wins/losses have been very closely related with this franchise since say, 1990? We had good defense in '97 and '03 and we went 7-9 & 6-10 those years. 2002 we managed to win 8 games by actually scoring points and we probably would've won ~11 if Bledsoe didn't tank the 2nd half of the season.
John from Riverside Posted May 11, 2006 Author Posted May 11, 2006 I will repeat this so that those who didn't understand it the first time.... This isn't a knock on the defense...the question is.....do we think that is the plan is as it was last year? (going into the season) I read articles that the idea before the season was to play ground control with the offense (since our QB was young) and stay in the games with what was previously a top ranked defense......
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 I'll be happy if he refrains from the pregame and halftime "Get out there and suck" speech that Mularkey was so famous for. 689255[/snapback] On fire.
Ramius Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 i hope they improve on last years offensive strategery1st down ??? 2nd down ??? 3rd down ??? 4th down punt 688627[/snapback] You messed up slightly... 1st down ??? 2nd down ??? 3rd down pull willis for shaud, then ??? 4th down punt
Max997 Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 With different coaches and personnel of course..... I always thought the play was to control the game with defense.....pound the ball with McGehee and run play action pass with Losman...... Is our defense good enough this year to return to a form where we can do that? Differences between number 1 rated defense and last years disaster? - Loss of Pat Williams and Takeo Spikes and Ron Edwards Changes between last year and this upcoming year - Loss of Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy - Addition of Takeo Spikes, Larry Tripplett, John McCargo, Kyle Williams, Daunte Whitner, Ko Simpson, Ashton Yobuty, Does the defense hold the fort down this year and allow us to bring our offense along slowly? 688604[/snapback] Ron Edwards???
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