dave mcbride Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 If you want to think that if they both realize their full potential that JP Losman would not be a better quarterback than Craig Nall, go right ahead. 687747[/snapback] this is not an answer. face it: neither you nor i has a clue as to the potential of each. as for losman, suggesting that he has greater potential strikes me as the triumph of hope over experience. that said, he may have far more potential than nall. again, neither you nor i know. what you have to work from is a disembodied array of disparate stats (and i bet you haven't seen his nfl europe stats - i know i haven't) when it comes to nall; and a depressing series of mostly poor and frankly willy-nilly performances by losman in a bills uniform plus a few worthless talking-head evaluations from espn and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 this is not an answer. face it: neither you nor i has a clue as to the potential of each. as for losman, suggesting that he has greater potential strikes me as the triumph of hope over experience. that said, he may have far more potential than nall. again, neither you nor i know. what you have to work from is a disembodied array of disparate stats (and i bet you haven't seen his nfl europe stats - i know i haven't) when it comes to nall; and a depressing series of mostly poor and frankly willy-nilly performances by losman in a bills uniform plus a few worthless talking-head evaluations from espn and the like. 687769[/snapback] If you had to choose, if you are the GM and you had to choose one of the two, right now, who would you choose? Who would you bet your career on? The point is we don't know, and won't know, until one or both of them play a full season with real bullets. To me it is an absolute no brainer which of these players I give first crack to. One or none or both of them may become good or great QBs in this league. To me, I am going with the guy that has a better pedigree, more experience, was a #1 pick and more physical talent over the guy that couldn't even play Division I ball and all he has done is play well one year in NFLE before his own team drafted a guy to be ahead of him. Yes, there is a chance that Nall is a better player than Losman. Yes, there is a chance that he will be a better pro. Yes, there is a chance that, in person, Pyrite Gal is a man of action and few words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 You hit it right on the head. The whole idea of competition at quarterback is stupid to me. The ONLY way, only way, to find out if Losman is going to be good or our franchise quarterback is to line him up under center game one series one in the regular season and let him play eight straight games. That's the only way. It doesn't matter if he's great or crappy in practice or pre-season or in the first game. The only way to know is to play him and keep playing him for several games. In the real games. Under fire. In the first quarter at 0-0 and in the fourth quarter at the two minute warning down by a TD. Only way. It's also the only to way to know about Craig Nall but Losman has a bigger upside than Nall as well as a bigger investment, so it's also stupid to give Nall that first crack at it. The competition is a ruse and publicity ploy. Losman is going to start and he's going to sink or swim. That's how we're going to know. Not in a three way competition in OTA's and mini-camp and pre-season. 687326[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 The point is we don't know, and won't know, until one or both of them play a full season with real bullets. To me it is an absolute no brainer which of these players I give first crack to. One or none or both of them may become good or great QBs in this league. To me, I am going with the guy that has a better pedigree, more experience, was a #1 pick and more physical talent over the guy that couldn't even play Division I ball and all he has done is play well one year in NFLE before his own team drafted a guy to be ahead of him. 687777[/snapback] ??? what "pedigree" are you talking about? his frankly mediocre college career? his crappy performance for the bills last year? or the fact that he was a coveted first round draft pick by a subpar gm? like i said, i don't think you have any idea about nall's physical talent and football skills. i certainly don't profess to, and you probably shouldn't either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 ??? what "pedigree" are you talking about? his frankly mediocre college career? his crappy performance for the bills last year? or the fact that he was a coveted first round draft pick by a subpar gm? like i said, i don't think you have any idea about nall's physical talent and football skills. i certainly don't profess to, and you probably shouldn't either. 687780[/snapback] Ummmm because I have watched Losman play? I have seen Nall play a little. I have read a ton about both of them from all kinds of sources. NFL GMs and scouts seemed to agree. I infer some things from common sense equations. I want a quarterback that can throw as well as run. I don't want to give the reigns to my beloved team to a player whose own team didnt want him, own college didn't want him, and has never really done a thing anywhere outside of NFLE one season just because he MAY be a diamond in the rough. I could go on. There are a ton of small and large reasons why I think Losman should be given first crack, as well as why I think he will be better in the long run. It's just an opinion. If you want to hand the keys to the bills car over to someone from nowhere with no experience, even in college, that's fine with me. It's your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I think it's very fair to say that Losman has more pure physical talent than Nall. While we don't know much about these two players, we can't deny all knowledge of everything. From personal viewing experience, Losman has wheels and he sets very, very quickly and he has a strong arm. Nall can't match all of those qualities. He might have better mental potential, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Ummmm because I have watched Losman play? I have seen Nall play a little. I have read a ton about both of them from all kinds of sources. NFL GMs and scouts seemed to agree. I infer some things from common sense equations. I want a quarterback that can throw as well as run. I don't want to give the reigns to my beloved team to a player whose own team didnt want him, own college didn't want him, and has never really done a thing anywhere outside of NFLE one season just because he MAY be a diamond in the rough. I could go on. There are a ton of small and large reasons why I think Losman should be given first crack, as well as why I think he will be better in the long run. It's just an opinion. If you want to hand the keys to the bills car over to someone from nowhere with no experience, even in college, that's fine with me. It's your opinion. 687784[/snapback] i watched losman play last year, and he made about 10 really beautiful throws. otherwise, he sucked at pretty much every aspect of the game. he may get better; he may not. as for basing an assessment on arm strength etc., jeff george is still looking for work in the league. he had the best arm i've ever seen. anyway, most people seem to think that nall's arm is at the very least good enough. look, i'm not attacking losman, as much as it may look. he may get better and prove to be a decent qb. so far, he has not been decent. the worst qb rating in the league has to count for something, correct? that said, he may be the better option. he'll of course have to prove it. i certainly would be circumspect, though, given donohoe's mostly sorry track record with qbs. as for "league" guys, reports were that a lot of them said they wouldn't have drafted losman even in the seventh round, so who knows whether he really has a "pedigree"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 If you had to choose, if you are the GM and you had to choose one of the two, right now, who would you choose? Who would you bet your career on? That's an easy call. I wouldn't want to bet my career on either one if I could help it. But if it had to be one or the other, I'd take the guy who could render the other team's defense Nall and Void. I've seen Green Bay fans suggest Nall may be the next Hasselbeck, or the next Brad Johnson. There are a few people who say Nall may be nothing more than a career backup, but for the most part the fans seem to think he should have been given much more of a chance than he was. Nall has played well not just in NFL Europe, but also in a regular season game against Chicago. In a preseason game against the Bills, the backups on Green Bay's offensive line were getting dominated by the Bills' constant blitzes. Nall responded by getting rid of the ball quickly; a trait Losman has yet to learn. Losman had some success playing backyard ball over at Tulane, but he's done very little to suggest he can make the transition to the NFL. Nall, quite frankly, has done a much better job of displaying NFL-style traits than Losman has. Reading complex defenses. Making decisions quickly. Things like these are what separate the Peyton Mannings from the Ryan Leafs; and they are also what separate Craig Nall from J.P. Losman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 i certainly would be circumspect, though, given donohoe's mostly sorry track record with qbs. What "sorry track record with QBs" are you referring to? Okay, I'll admit TD's first major QB decision was to draft Kordell Stewart. His next was to allow Neil O'Donnell to hit free agency, to be replaced with Stewart. Stewart worked out so well he was out of football after just a few years. After being fired from Pittsburgh, TD came to the Bills. His first major QB decision here was to trade away a first round pick for Bledsoe. Two years later, TD used another first round pick on Bledsoe's replacement. TD's decision to replace O'Donnell with Stewart had worked out so well that he decided to do the same thing again by replacing Bledsoe with Losman. Before the start of the 2005 season, TD concluded Losman had at least as good a chance of leading the 2005 Bills to the playoffs as Bledsoe did. The thinking was that Losman's mobility would make up for whatever newbie mistakes he might make. What possible reason could you have for not trusting the QB evaluation skills of someone like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 An interesting thought that i just had here, if Nall is so good and Green Bay thought that he could be Favre's replacement, than why was Green Bay willing to draft Losman in the first round of 2004 to succeed Brett Favre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 An interesting thought that i just had here, if Nall is so good and Green Bay thought that he could be Favre's replacement, than why was Green Bay willing to draft Losman in the first round of 2004 to succeed Brett Favre? 687848[/snapback] Or draft Aaron Rodgers the next year. Or trade for JT O'Sullivan. Or let Nall go. The Nall fans will say that Sherman didn't know what he was talking about, and he was in charge, although I'm sure most of these same people were screaming for the Bills to sign Sherman as their coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Or draft Aaron Rodgers the next year. Or trade for JT O'Sullivan. Or let Nall go. 687852[/snapback] This is the one thing that really goes against Nall IMO. GB have gone through more than their fair share of QBs backing up Favre which have gone onto pro-bowls etc. This implies that the Packers organization is good at recognizing QB talent. They obviously did not think Nall 'has it'. That being said, I guess if I'm going to trust(at this point) that Marv & Co. spotted top talent in the draft which others didn't(i.e. Whitner) I should trust that they see something special in Nall as well. Honestly....why do people care so much about who should or shouldn't be the best QB? Surely as long as one becomes a champion, why would you care which one it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 This is the one thing that really goes against Nall IMO. GB have gone through more than their fair share of QBs backing up Favre which have gone onto pro-bowls etc. This implies that the Packers organization is good at recognizing QB talent. They obviously did not think Nall 'has it'. That being said, I guess if I'm going to trust(at this point) that Marv & Co. spotted top talent in the draft which others didn't(i.e. Whitner) I should trust that they see something special in Nall as well. Honestly....why do people care so much about who should or shouldn't be the best QB? Surely as long as one becomes a champion, why would you care which one it is? 687858[/snapback] I think it matters because it gives the team a face and a figure head that everybody can point to and say "that is our leader", and also it gives us someone to blame if things go terribly wrong. Without that i think the Bills are lost, its like an army in the field without orders from a general, what is the purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I think it matters because it gives the team a face and a figure head that everybody can point to and say "that is our leader", and also it gives us someone to blame if things go terribly wrong. Without that i think the Bills are lost, its like an army in the field without orders from a general, what is the purpose? 687859[/snapback] Yes.... but does it make a difference if JP becomes that "leader" rather than Nall(or vice verse)? My point is....why do people get set on one over another?(to the total exclusion of the 'other' QB) As long as one of them steps up to become that "leader", why, how, , could any Bills fan think that would be a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 Yes....but does it make a difference if JP becomes that "leader" rather than Nall(or vice verse)? My point is....why do people get set on one over another?(to the total exclusion of the 'other' QB) As long as one of them steps up to become that "leader", why, how, , could any Bills fan think that would be a bad thing? 687861[/snapback] I don't think it really matters to most people. I think the Losman supporters are so heavy on supporting him because we used a first round pick on him, and they don't want to see it go to waste. I think Holcumb people tend to be older fans that don't think Losman have the leadership to lead the team, and also the fact that he pretty much reflects the Donahoe era in Buffalo. To tell you the truth, if Nall steps up and becomes a quarterback that leads us somewhere then i think that would be fine. I just think that Holcumb is a little too old to see him as the "quarterback of the future" when the guy will be on social security in a little while. I think what the fans want is a dynasty at the quarterback position. A young QB who will be consistently good year after year like a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. I just don't think it matters whether it is Nall or Losman, but i am pullin' for Losman, i mean sh-- we did use a first round pick on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Yes....but does it make a difference if JP becomes that "leader" rather than Nall(or vice verse)? My point is....why do people get set on one over another?(to the total exclusion of the 'other' QB) As long as one of them steps up to become that "leader", why, how, , could any Bills fan think that would be a bad thing? 687861[/snapback] Because anyone with a half-functioning brain knows that Holcomb isn't the future. At this point I dont' care whether it's Nall or Losman. All I know is Holcomb is NOT the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I don't want to give the reigns to my beloved team to a player whose own team didnt want him, own college didn't want him, and has never really done a thing anywhere outside of NFLE one season just because he MAY be a diamond in the rough. 687784[/snapback] I'm confused. Are we talking about ex-Green Bay QB Nall?.........or Kurt Warner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 The Nall fans will say that Sherman didn't know what he was talking about, and he was in charge, although I'm sure most of these same people were screaming for the Bills to sign Sherman as their coach. Having spent some time on the Green Bay message boards, I've yet to come across a positive post about Mike Sherman's job as general manager. I don't know whether Nall is the answer--just that I won't blindly trust Mike Sherman's judgement. As for those who wanted Sherman as the Bills coach--it's possible for a guy to be a good coach but not a good general manager. Let's just hope the nearest example of such is as far away as Green Bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I'm confused. Are we talking about ex-Green Bay QB Nall?.........or Kurt Warner? 687944[/snapback] For every Kurt Warner there is 100 actual bagmen at Wegman's. Are you suggesting we seek out players that have been washouts because they might be the second coming of Kurt Warner? That's a good strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 687973[/snapback] Your assinine logic and anti-jp crusade have left me completely speechless. I didnt think it was possible for a human to fit their head THAT far up their rectum. As for mr 1-game wonder nall...sounds an awful lot like rob johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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