Be prepared for Losman...

[Ramius]

It's still true regardless. Losman has great wheels and a cannon for an arm. He can throw on the run. He already has terrific ball handling skills. He has #1 pick talent and Nall has #5 talent. His upside is bigger than Nall's if they both play up to their potential, and Nall is just as big a question mark since he hasn't played a game let alone a season as a starter against major competition EVER, including college.

687440[/snapback]

 

But...but...but...but... Nall has a 132 career passer rating! He's the next montana! Or so says holcomb/Nall's arm

 

Edit: i dont know why he doesnt change his name to "anyone but JP's" arm

[Kelly the Dog]

But...but...but...but... Nall has a 132 career passer rating! He's the next montana! Or so says holcomb/Nall's arm

 

Edit: i dont know why he doesnt change his name to "anyone but JP's" arm

687575[/snapback]

Losman also had a better completion average in college than Nall did, both years, for all that crap about accuracy. And yes, HA, I do know there is a difference between the NFL and college.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=124197

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=3656

[finknottle]

It's still true regardless. Losman has great wheels and a cannon for an arm. He can throw on the run. He already has terrific ball handling skills. He has #1 pick talent and Nall has #5 talent. His upside is bigger than Nall's if they both play up to their potential, and Nall is just as big a question mark since he hasn't played a game let alone a season as a starter against major competition EVER, including college.

687440[/snapback]

 

How do you know this upside you keep talking about?

 

Apparently coaches aren't smart enough to know, running practice after practice, if a guy has what it takes... but armed with a draft guide and some college highlights you know who has more 'potential?'

[Orton's Arm]

Losman also had a better completion average in college than Nall did, both years, for all that crap about accuracy.

Nall's best year was in Northwestern State, where he posted a 56.8% completion percentage. Losman's percentages were higher: 57.4% and 59.5%--but only slightly. To me, the real difference is in the TD:INT ratio. Losman threw twice as many TDs as INTs both years, while Nall threw nearly four times as many TDs as INTs while at Northwestern State.

[Kelly the Dog]

How do you know this upside you keep talking about?

 

Apparently coaches aren't smart enough to know, running practice after practice, if a guy has what it takes...  but armed with a draft guide and some college highlights you know who has more 'potential?'

687601[/snapback]

No, but I have the bizarre thing called common sense. Forget the names here. Tell me who has more potential and a bigger upside.

 

Player A: Started two years at a Division I school after getting benched/beat out by a # 1 pick in the NFL who was two years older. #1 Draft pick himself. Has a cannon arm. Very good running and scrambling ability. Can throw on the run. Very good ball skills. Very confident. Team traded up and gave away a future #1 pick to get him. Was hurt as a rookie. Played 7-8 games in the NFL on a crappy team, starting 7 of them. Played quite poorly and wildly erratic but showed flashes of brilliance.

 

Player B: Started one year in college as a Division 1-AA school after being beat out by two other QBs on a Division I school and benched for good after one game. Round #5 draft pick. Has a pretty good arm. Very confident. Cannot scramble or run well but moves well in the pocket. Played very well and was MVP of the NFLE. Threw total of 33 passes for a fabulous QB rating in mop up time in four years in the NFL on a decent team. Team drafted another #1 pick even though he was a back-up.

[Kelly the Dog]

Nall's best year was in Northwestern State, where he posted a 56.8% completion percentage.  Losman's percentages were higher: 57.4% and 59.5%--but only slightly.  To me, the real difference is in the TD:INT ratio.  Losman threw twice as many TDs as INTs both years, while Nall threw nearly four times as many TDs as INTs while at Northwestern State.

687624[/snapback]

Do you actually go out of your way to be completely disingenuous? Tell me, which would you prefer as your quarterback? 2000 yards, 11 TDs and 3 INTs or 3000 yards, 33 TDs and 14 INTs.

[finknottle]

No, but I have the bizarre thing called common sense. Forget the names here. Tell me who has more potential and a bigger upside.

 

687630[/snapback]

 

Fair enough. My point is that we reject the idea that coaches can make good decisions on a qb without starting them 16+ games, even though they spend 24-7 running these guys through drills, but we are perfectly willing to accept locking ourselves into guys based on our perceptions of their comparitive upside.

 

Sounds like you are saying your common sense is a better indicator of a players talent than what coaches can learn working with them.

[Kelly the Dog]

Fair enough.  My point is that we reject the idea that coaches can make good decisions on a qb without starting them 16+ games,  even though they spend 24-7 running these guys through drills,  but we are perfectly willing to accept locking ourselves into guys based on our perceptions of their comparitive upside. 

 

Sounds like you are saying your common sense is a better indicator of a players talent than what coaches can learn working with them.

687639[/snapback]

No, the point is that the coaches usually can't make that determination, particularly at quarterback, and the coaches would likely be the first to tell you that. That the only way they are going to know whether Losman or Nall is going to be good is to play them an extended time in the regular season with live bullets. And the history of the NFL is littered with players who were good practice players but couldn't cut it in the games, or the split second that the game is amped up in the regular season compared to practice or pre-season separates the men from the boys.

[Orton's Arm]

Do you actually go out of your way to be completely disingenuous? Tell me, which would you prefer as your quarterback? 2000 yards, 11 TDs and 3 INTs or 3000 yards, 33 TDs and 14 INTs.

687634[/snapback]

Losman had over 400 passing attempts both years at Tulane. Nall had just 250 attempts at Northwestern State. All those extra yards Losman piled up were because of the added pass attempts. While at Northwestern State, Nall achieved a higher yards per pass attempt than Losman. Nall's TD:INT ratio is about twice as good. Losman's college completion percentage is better than Nall's, but only slightly.

[Kelly the Dog]

Losman had over 400 passing attempts both years at Tulane.  Nall had just 250 attempts at Northwestern State.  While at Northwestern State, Nall achieved a higher yards per pass attempt than Losman.  Nall's TD:INT ratio is about twice as good.  Losman's college completion percentage is better than Nall's, but only slightly.

687665[/snapback]

You're right. Craig Nall was better in college than Losman, even though he threw about 40 less TDs and 3500 less yards. I don't see how a guy that threw 11 total TDs in a college career in Division 1-AA is not a #1 draft choice. They should probably just cut Losman and Holcomb, too.

[EC-Bills]

Losman had over 400 passing attempts both years at Tulane.  Nall had just 250 attempts at Northwestern State.  All those extra yards Losman piled up were because of the added pass attempts.  While at Northwestern State, Nall achieved a higher yards per pass attempt than Losman.  Nall's TD:INT ratio is about twice as good.  Losman's college completion percentage is better than Nall's, but only slightly.

687665[/snapback]

This post is one of your more pathetic ones.

[Orton's Arm]

This post is one of your more pathetic ones.

687675[/snapback]

Glad to know you think so highly of my other posts.

[Ozymandius]

My point is that if there was seriously a competition at quarterback in practice, it is highly likely that Kelly Holcomb would win it. 90% chance. Because he would be more relaible, smarter, more accurate and all of those things we know about him. But that is not who you want as your quarterback IMO because of his limitations and his potential. So IMO the "competition" they talk about really isn't a competition, they are simply going to divide up the reps and then decide on Losman, unless he completely tanks, because he has the most potential to be the franchise quarterback this team needs. And because Nall is just as big a risk as him, regardless of how they play in practice and pre-season. That's just my opinion.

687475[/snapback]

 

I agree. The coaches will probably have different expectations of performance in mind for each of these QBs to win the job. Holcomb probably doesn't have a realistc shot at the job and won't win it unless he completes like 90% of his passes in camp, for example. I do think the expectations will be very similar for Losman and Nall, however, and I think Losman will have to play well to win the job.

[Peter]

Based on Losman's play last year, I have no reason to believe that he will not struggle. I really, really hope that I am wrong about this and he justifies the investment that we have in him.

 

I also think that the Bills should play whoever plays the best during the pre-season. If that is Losman, great. If not, let the person who who wins the QB battle have a chance to see what he can do.

[dave mcbride]

If they both play up to their potential, and the best they can be do you want a slow, sluggish Craig Nall with a decent arm, or do you want a guy with a cannon who can run and scramble and throw on the run, too? It's obvious. Ask yourself who you would want if they both played as well as they can play. It's not even close.

 

Losman is a bigger investment, plain and simple. You're right, they don't make a ton but Losman cost a trade, a #1 pick and almost twice as much money, so that's a bigger investment.

687520[/snapback]

 

the picks traded for losman are a sunk cost, and in any event levy had nothing to do with them so they're not on his shoulders.

 

who holds more potential? as for who has a stronger arm, nothing i've read suggests that nall has anything but a very strong arm. losman clearly does as well. all of this suggests that neither of us has a clue as to who has more upside.

[dave mcbride]

He has #1 pick talent and Nall has #5 talent.

687440[/snapback]

dog, you're better than this!! greg lloyd, probably the most dominating defensive player in the league for a 2-3 year stretch, was a fifth rounder. troy edwards and eric flowers were first rounders.

[dave mcbride]

Losman had over 400 passing attempts both years at Tulane.  Nall had just 250 attempts at Northwestern State.  All those extra yards Losman piled up were because of the added pass attempts.  While at Northwestern State, Nall achieved a higher yards per pass attempt than Losman.  Nall's TD:INT ratio is about twice as good.  Losman's college completion percentage is better than Nall's, but only slightly.

687665[/snapback]

college is *completely* irrelevant to this argument. it's how they play in the pros that matters.

[Kelly the Dog]

the picks traded for losman are a sunk cost, and in any event levy had nothing to do with them so they're not on his shoulders.

 

who holds more potential? as for who has a stronger arm, nothing i've read suggests that nall has anything but a very strong arm. losman clearly does as well. all of this suggests that neither of us has a clue as to who has more upside.

687734[/snapback]

If you want to think that if they both realize their full potential that JP Losman would not be a better quarterback than Craig Nall, go right ahead.

[Dante]

I hope you are wrong as well.

686983[/snapback]

I think the same way. This upcoming season I just want to something. Some sort of development. Stats dont have to be killer or anything I just want to see some improvement. But if sucks I think we start to look elsewhere.

[Orton's Arm]

If you want to think that if they both realize their full potential that JP Losman would not be a better quarterback than Craig Nall, go right ahead.

Physical potential or overall potential? I'll grant Losman is a more physically gifted player, but so what? As long as a QB can make all the throws, it's mental potential that determines most of his upside. I've seen nothing to indicate Losman has any more mental potential than Nall. On the contrary, if what Packers fans are saying is true, Nall is very good at seeing the field and making good decisions. Losman has yet to show he can do these things.