Coach Tuesday Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ...h.number/3.html "5. I think Marv Levy has been catching major crappola in western New York for his actions during the draft -- some justified, some not. Levy decided to stay put at No. 8 in the first round and pick Ohio State safety Donte Whitner rather than taking a lucrative offer from Denver to move down seven spots. The Broncos would have sent second- and fourth-round picks to move from No. 15 to No. 8. And Buffalo traded up into the latter part of the first round to get North Carolina State John McCargo. Finally, Levy was criticized for passing on Matt Leinart at No. 8 because of Buffalo's shaky quarterback situation. Levy told me, "The top defensive back in the draft for us was Donte Whitner. We heard rumblings there were teams very close behind us who wanted him. Yes, we could have moved down, but it would have been a risk. Why move down when you identified the guy you want and you can sit there and get him? He's tailor-made for everything we do on defense. What if in the process of moving down you don't get the guy you want?" Here's where I disagree. I think the only team that was a threat to take Whitner in the top half of the first round was Baltimore, and the Ravens were clear in their intentions that if Haloti Ngata of Oregon was there for their pick, No. 12, that he'd be their man. As I said last week, one personnel man told me there was a 95 percent chance Whitner would have been there at 15 had Buffalo not chosen him eighth overall. Now, on the McCargo and Leinart issues, I think Levy's right. The Bills need to give J.P. Losman a chance to be the quarterback of this team; you cloud the issue by taking Leinart and throwing Losman to the curb. McCargo's a very good player and clearly was the best interior defensive lineman entering the late first round. "After McCargo, there was a huge dropoff in grades to the next man,'' Levy said. "There's no way we would have gotten him had we stayed where we were in the second round."" These are fair points - except that Levy has been taking "major crapola" everywhere BUT Western New York, as in he's been getting hammered by King's friends in the MSM.
Dawgg Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 He is totally right. Getting an additional 2nd rounder would have allowed the Bills more flexibility in the draft. They could have turned around and used that second rounder to move in the first and grab McCargo and still have a second round pick to nab a quality player. Trading down IS a risk, it always is... but that you are rewarded for that risk with additional picks. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ...h.number/3.html "5. I think Marv Levy has been catching major crappola in western New York for his actions during the draft -- some justified, some not. Levy decided to stay put at No. 8 in the first round and pick Ohio State safety Donte Whitner rather than taking a lucrative offer from Denver to move down seven spots. The Broncos would have sent second- and fourth-round picks to move from No. 15 to No. 8. And Buffalo traded up into the latter part of the first round to get North Carolina State John McCargo. Finally, Levy was criticized for passing on Matt Leinart at No. 8 because of Buffalo's shaky quarterback situation. Levy told me, "The top defensive back in the draft for us was Donte Whitner. We heard rumblings there were teams very close behind us who wanted him. Yes, we could have moved down, but it would have been a risk. Why move down when you identified the guy you want and you can sit there and get him? He's tailor-made for everything we do on defense. What if in the process of moving down you don't get the guy you want?" Here's where I disagree. I think the only team that was a threat to take Whitner in the top half of the first round was Baltimore, and the Ravens were clear in their intentions that if Haloti Ngata of Oregon was there for their pick, No. 12, that he'd be their man. As I said last week, one personnel man told me there was a 95 percent chance Whitner would have been there at 15 had Buffalo not chosen him eighth overall. Now, on the McCargo and Leinart issues, I think Levy's right. The Bills need to give J.P. Losman a chance to be the quarterback of this team; you cloud the issue by taking Leinart and throwing Losman to the curb. McCargo's a very good player and clearly was the best interior defensive lineman entering the late first round. "After McCargo, there was a huge dropoff in grades to the next man,'' Levy said. "There's no way we would have gotten him had we stayed where we were in the second round."" These are fair points - except that Levy has been taking "major crapola" everywhere BUT Western New York, as in he's been getting hammered by King's friends in the MSM. 686301[/snapback]
Coach Tuesday Posted May 8, 2006 Author Posted May 8, 2006 He is totally right. Getting an additional 2nd rounder would have allowed the Bills more flexibility in the draft. They could have turned around and used that second rounder to move in the first and grab McCargo and still have a second round pick to nab a quality player. Trading down IS a risk, it always is... but that you are rewarded for that risk with additional picks. 686315[/snapback] I meant that he's wrong about Levy taking a lot of flack in WNY - in reality, it's writers from everywhere else who are ganging up on him. I don't disagree that Levy probably ought to have traded down. However, again, I am willing to give him a break this time around. It was his first draft as a GM, and I think overall he did very well - possibly better than Donahoe did in any of his drafts. I can't fault him for being more conservative given that it was his first draft, and given how important it was for the Bills to get some quality players. They simply could not afford to miss on this draft. I think Levy will learn from it and be more aggressive in the future.
Lurker Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 I think Levy will learn from it and be more aggressive in the future. 686320[/snapback] Maybe. But my take is that Marv's experience as a coach makes it more likely he'll target players he likes (like Whitner & McCargo), rather than rolling the dice and playing the odds like TD used to do. On the whole, I like Marv's approach just fine--as long as they're correct in their personnel assessments. Two guys who fit the scheme perfectly are more valuable, IMO, than three who don't mesh as well.
John from Riverside Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 I know this is still a popular topic but.... Cant we please get passed it.....right or wrong Levy did what he did....Whitner and McCargo are now bills..... And if this draft pans out (like I am almost certain it will) nobody will care where these players were selected......
colin Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 the way i see it levy and co had a few guys they really liked (our first 3 picks), and in the later rounds just picked up the best players that fell to them. they didn't make a move down and hope to get whitner, and they jumped in front of the giants who did make a move down to get mccargo. we just had a consistent strategy and it resulted in getting the players we wanted, which is better than a trade down and roll the dice with more picks if you know what players are best for your team.
obie_wan Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 He is totally right. Getting an additional 2nd rounder would have allowed the Bills more flexibility in the draft. They could have turned around and used that second rounder to move in the first and grab McCargo and still have a second round pick to nab a quality player. Trading down IS a risk, it always is... but that you are rewarded for that risk with additional picks. 686315[/snapback] Since Jauron coached in Detroit last year and did not burn any bridges when he left, it is pretty likely he had some reliable inside info that Detroit would take the 2 DBs before Sims. Or that the Rams would take Whitner since they did in fact take a DB with their 1st pick. However, let's assume that Marv should have taken the risk. -so he makes the trade to #15 and Whitner, Ngata and Bunkley are all gone. What do the Bills do at #15? The Bills have moved into the twilight zone where the top 13 impact players are gone. No one rated in this area can be counted on to provide immediate help. What's the plan????
ch19079 Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 teams want to go in to the draft not having to draft a paticular position. that would give them options and allow them to take the best player available. but in our case we didnt have that option. we needed a SS badly. so bad in fact that if we traded down and didnt get whitner, we would have been really screwed. so in our case, it was not worth the risk. take the giants for example. they traded down thinking McCargo would have been there at 32nd overall. but we traded up to get him, and they were forced to draft a DE that they didnt really want or need.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 The bills liked Whitner and wanted to take him. End of story. If he becomes a Pro Bowl caliber player, then no one will care when he was drafted. If he doesn't, Marv made a really bad move. Time will tell.
Tortured Soul Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 Is thisthe first time it's been printed that Denver was offering a 2nd and 4th? That's tough to pass up. And just imagine the sh--storm that would've happened if Cutler went before Leinert.
Dr. Trooth Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 The "trooth" is... We will not know who's right for maybe 3 years. That is, unless, Donte Whitner and/or McCargo is a standout rookie in the league this season. I tend to agree with Marv on this one... If you have the ideal players for your schemes sitting there in front of you when you pick, why take the risk of ending up without the guy and having to select your plan "b" guy? Where's the value there? The Plan b guy may be a close fit but not exactly what you want... maybe the difference between Ronnie Lott and Bennie Blades... One a "champion", the other an "also ran". The extra picks you get may bring you "quantity", but not necessarilly "quality". Remember, the critics are folks that never drafted a player or were never held accountable for bringing in a player that turned out to be a flop. They are no better than the weatherman on the evening news... they just roll the dice... and even if they're wrong, they still get to keep their jobs... as long as they continue to be "entertaining". That's the "trooth".
bruceleeroy100 Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 if i remember correctly didnt billick from the ravens say on radio they were going to pick whitner with their pick not ngata.i believe it was a thread here.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 Am I reading this correctly?? "The Broncos would have sent second- and fourth-round picks to move from No. 15 to No. 8." Does this mean the Bills would get Denver's 1st, 2nd, and 4th? Or just the 2nd and 4th for Buffalo's 1st? If it's the latter, then Levy would had to be brain dead to take that deal. PTR
PromoTheRobot Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 Since Jauron coached in Detroit last year and did not burn any bridges when he left, it is pretty likely he had some reliable inside info that Detroit would take the 2 DBs before Sims. Or that the Rams would take Whitner since they did in fact take a DB with their 1st pick. However, let's assume that Marv should have taken the risk. -so he makes the trade to #15 and Whitner, Ngata and Bunkley are all gone. What do the Bills do at #15? The Bills have moved into the twilight zone where the top 13 impact players are gone. No one rated in this area can be counted on to provide immediate help. What's the plan???? 686374[/snapback] It's not the job of writers like King to offer a plan...just criticism. PTR
zow2 Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 The Ravens probably would not have "outed" their draft pick as Ngata since teams are majorly paranoid about tipping their hand prior to the draft. Baltimore very well could have identified Whitner as their guy and thrown Ngata out to King since he was plan B. King should know better. In any event, much of the national media started to backpeddal on the Bills draft in the days that followed. Most started citing the fact that we got great players but the selection was higher than their actual board "value".
Dawgg Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 It would also have involved a swap of first rounders. That's just the common way to reference a trade up. The Bills gave up their 3rd rounder to move up from the 2nd round pick they had to the 25th overall -- ie, a swap of picks PLUS a third rounder. Am I reading this correctly?? "The Broncos would have sent second- and fourth-round picks to move from No. 15 to No. 8." Does this mean the Bills would get Denver's 1st, 2nd, and 4th? Or just the 2nd and 4th for Buffalo's 1st? If it's the latter, then Levy would had to be brain dead to take that deal. PTR 686488[/snapback]
Milo Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 Am I reading this correctly?? "The Broncos would have sent second- and fourth-round picks to move from No. 15 to No. 8." Does this mean the Bills would get Denver's 1st, 2nd, and 4th? Or just the 2nd and 4th for Buffalo's 1st? If it's the latter, then Levy would had to be brain dead to take that deal. Had to be the former. Tough deal to pass up, but what's done is done. The Bills had a couple guys targeted and did what they had to do to get them. We'll see how well it works out. I'm willing to give Marv the benefit of the doubt - I think he's earned that much at least.
Bill from NYC Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 If it's the latter, then Levy would had to be brain dead to take that deal. 686488[/snapback] Bingo! Marv could have obtained a boatload of draft picks, and acquired players such as Joseph, Trueblood, and dbs galore since this seems to be what he covets above all else. Instead, he gave up a first day pick, and used 3 of his first 4 on the secondary. I am trying, but I just cannot find a way to view this as anything but stupid.
Dawgg Posted May 8, 2006 Posted May 8, 2006 It was stupid. According to Marv, Whitner was far and away the best secondary player in the draft and it wasn't even close. Perhaps that is the case, time will tell. For my money, I severely doubt it. I love Whitner as a player though. Just not at #8. Bingo! Marv could have obtained a boatload of draft picks, and acquired players such as Joseph, Trueblood, and dbs galore since this seems to be what he covets above all else. Instead, he gave up a first day pick, and used 3 of his first 4 on the secondary. I am trying, but I just cannot find a way to view this as anything but stupid. 686535[/snapback]
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