Suns defeat Lakers in game 7

[BuffOrange]

Ha....I love it....

 

No sir I am informed and dont base my opinions off of what sportscasters and media say about someone.....

 

Arrogance?  I didn't realize someone could be arrogant on a message board...it is more like confident in my opinion

 

yes arrogance...go back and read your post - you're the only one who has the ability to think for himself.

 

You are taking one instance where ESPN realizes that majority of the nation is going to see a closeline that is even illegal in football and not react well to it.  If you want to see what I am talking about from ESPN did deeper.....look at how Kobe is perceived through them while guys like Nash, Labron, Wade, etc etc etc and notice the differences....

 

Vague general statements equivalent to "JP has no time".....yawn.

 

By the way....way I am talking about ESPN I am basing lumping media in general together.....after the game 5 incident there was someone on WGR talking about how it wasn't that bad of a hit and how he deserved it by elbowig Raja (who didn't get hit and flopped on the play)

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I did hear Riter on WGR (who admitted he's a Suns fan in the process) say something about that. He was also responding to Cowherd of ESPN and Jim Rome - two national hosts - who did nothing but back Kobe and slam Bell all day long.

[John from Riverside]

John: I definitely respect your take, but I'm not sure I understand the point about ESPN and the media. I don't profess to speak for anyone but myself, but I watched a LOT of Bulls games back in the day and feel I have a pretty good grasp of what Jordan brought to the table. I don't feel that way because of what some commentator or reporter said about him.....I feel that way cause I watched him play for fifteen years.

 

I was living in Philly when Kobe made the decision to jump to the NBA from HS. I remember it being the focus of a LOT of the programming on WIP at the time, most people being in favor of him going to college. I felt the opposite....if someone gave me the chance to earn millions out of HS, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I supported his decision. When I found out he spoke a couple languages, seemed like a good kid, etc, I was in his corner. There was a lot of talk that the Sixers would draft Kobe if they decided to trade out of their spot in the draft. But anyway, Kobe is still young....but while Jordan certainly had some issues off the court, I just can't look at Kobe as the same quality of player. Clearly he has some clutch to him, and he's great at finding/creating his shot, but I don't see him as anywhere near the leader Jordan was, nor is his game as well-rounded (particularly on defense).

 

Now I'll also say that I've really soured on the NBA and I haven't seen Kobe anywhere near as much as I saw MJ. And I'll also say that this is nothing more than my opinion

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It is the hypocrisy I have a hard time dealing with between the two players

 

An interesting thing on Michael Jordan and leadership......

 

- If you have the resources to do it....go back and take a look at Jordans example of leadership....anybody that was not pulling his weight on that team he was all over like stink on rice....and that was considered being a leader...Jordon was a tireless worker...alwasy working on his game.....and Kobe shares those same traits both in leadership and work habits...only in Kobe's case he is "hard to play with".....

 

- Kobe is absolutely a shut down defender and you can go down the list of pure scorers he has completely shut down. The reason why Kobe wasnt guarding Nash in the playoffs is it wouldn't do any good.....moving screens will move anyone..including Michael Jordon....off of the ball handler if they are not called. The difference is they WOULD have been called had Jordan been the defender.

 

- I dont like the comparisons between Kobe and Michael either...Kobe is Kobe....it is a different era

[John from Riverside]

Well Buff...

 

- Where do you get YOUR takes from on Kobe Bryant (and please be honest) my take comes from following the team on a year round basis and being in the Southern Cali area. THis is not to say that I know EVERYTHING about Kobe Bryant but I sure know a lot more then folks who walk around saying Kobe = evil

 

- The MEDIA SHOULD be denouncing Raja Bell in that situation....what would have happened had Kobe's momentum and the slamming on the ground caused him to be seriously injured? Would this idiot from WGR have still been commending Raja for closelining and pushing in the face a player in a helpless situation? I think he would have.

 

- Only vague comments because I dont have the time to discuss the seasons since the incident in colorado...which is basically when this started

[Ramius]

I still want my #8 Jersey with the name Therapist on it.

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you and me both. the LA Lakers "therapist" #8. But "therapist" is changing his number. Kobe is nothing but a whiny punk B word who scores so much because he porks up 40 shots a game. Remember his little 40 point streak he had going. it was pathetic watching him pork shot after shot, and causing his team to lose, just so he could keep his little streak going.

 

You would have never seen MJ do anything of the sort.

[phxbacker]

I loved every bit of Kobe hitting the floor. It's about time someone did it. As Kobe said, It's playoff Basketball ! Kobe laid down like a winny $itch after that. It was just the spark Phx needed to get back on track. I don't care who did it, the fact is someone stood up to him. Hell Tim Thomas swatted him down like a fly in game 7 on the way to the basket, no one's talking about that. What about after Raja took the elbow from Kobe, Jackson yelled to Raja, "you F-in deserved it" Though Jackson denies using the f word. I admit is wasn't the hardest elbow i've seen. Hell, Kobe was swinging his elbows all series. He took out barbosa with one in game 5. Point is Raja was in his head all series, which is what he does best. What about Luke Waltons under the legs clip of Tim Thomas a couple of games before it, The potential for injury was a lot higher that the Closeline. It's all history now. To take a quote from Barkley to Kenny Smith, Can we talk about the teams that are still IN the playoffs !!!!! out.

 

[ajzepp]

You would have never seen MJ do anything of the sort.

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MJ wouldn't have sh-- the bed in the second half of the game, either.

[John from Riverside]

you and me both. the LA Lakers "therapist" #8. But "therapist" is changing his number. Kobe is nothing but a whiny punk B word who scores so much because he porks up 40 shots a game. Remember his little 40 point streak he had going. it was pathetic watching him pork shot after shot, and causing his team to lose, just so he could keep his little streak going.

 

You would have never seen MJ do anything of the sort.

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Once again uninformed.....

 

The reason why Kobe has to take so many shots is because the team was so friggen horrible. Lamar Odom didn't want to take them he wanted to dish to his teamates and he was supposed to be the number 2 option. If your team keeps waiting till there are 5 seconds on the shot clock and then pass you the ball...what are you supposed to do? If a player gets a hot hand then his team will milk it for all it is worth. Kobe kept this team afloat until the role players of this team started understanding the offense better....and as SOON as they showed the ability to keep up his shots went down.

 

ALSO

 

Kobe showed the ability to change his game in the playoffs where he he could have easily gone for 50 a night but instead backed up his coach by turning facilitator...the only reason he went for 50 in the 2nd to last game is because nobody could by a shot and the team need for him to keep them close. If Kwame Brown doesnt run by Tim Thomas with 6 seconds left in the game it is the Lakers playing the Clippers.

 

AlSO

 

Show me where Kobe is a whiny punk B word....show me where. While he is getting mauled in the playoffs and the opposing team is crying about fouls and the opposing coach is crying about fouls he just sits there and calls it "playoff basketball"

 

But....dont let me stop the hate fest.

[John from Riverside]

I loved every bit of Kobe hitting the floor. It's about time someone did it. As Kobe said, It's playoff Basketball ! Kobe laid down like a winny $itch after that. It was just the spark Phx needed to get back on track.  I don't care who did it, the fact is someone stood up to him. Hell Tim Thomas swatted him down like a fly in game 7 on the way to the basket, no one's talking about that. What about  after Raja took the elbow from Kobe,  Jackson yelled to Raja, "you F-in deserved it"  Though Jackson denies using the f word.  I admit is wasn't the hardest elbow i've seen. Hell, Kobe was swinging his elbows all series. He took out barbosa with one in game 5. Point is Raja was in his head all series, which is what he does best.  What about Luke Waltons under the legs clip of Tim Thomas a couple of games before it, The potential for  injury was a lot higher that the Closeline. It's all history now. To take a quote from Barkley to Kenny Smith, Can we talk about the teams that are still IN the playoffs !!!!!  out.

 

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I am wondering if someone had bounced Nash off the floor and taken him out of the game (hey...there is still time for that) if you would have considered that fair.

 

Nice...the spark that is needed is to intentially try to hurt the opponents best player.

 

As for Kobe and his swinging elbows....I dont blame either Kobe or the Suns defenders as it is the job of the refs to enforce the rules...it is illegal to put both hands on a ball handler and it is elligal to impede a players progess.....the suns were flat out HUGGING Kobe every time down and he was freeing himself...he was NOT intentially trying to hurt anyone. (not that he did most of the contact the suns were whining about were flops)

 

The difference between Luke Walton's foul with Tim THomas is that it was a hard foul but Walton was making an attempt to hold Tim Thomas up.....and anybody objective should be able to see the differnce between a WWE closeline and a hand in the face pushing a player DOWN is different then a hard foul but making an attempt to hold someone UP.....

 

You are kidding yourself if you think Raja was in Kobe's head.....it was just the gameplan to not have Kobe take over the game.

 

Regardless of all that. Congratulations to the Suns they are without a doubt the best outside shooting team I have ever seen. (which is exactly what Kobe said his his final press conference...while people are trashing him everywhere he shows nothing but class)

[bartshan-83]

I'll start this post with a quote:

 

"I'm not trying to go out there and elbow somebody, that's not the way I play," Bryant said. "If you get elbowed, you still have to keep your cool. I get elbowed all the time."

 

I agree...intentionally fouling a player driving hard to the lane with malicious intent is plain wrong. Who cares if it is in retaliation? Great players keep their heads about them.

 

Shame on you Raja! You proved why you will never be in Kobe's league of class.

 

 

Oh wait...hang on one second....what is this here?

 

OOPS

 

 

In fact there is a difference between this and the Raja closeline. One of the players admitted he was wrong after the fact and the other one was proud of what he did.

 

Can you guess which one it was?

 

Kobe

 

or

 

Raja

 

 

[John from Riverside]

You think what Raja did was an apology? He was GLOATING about what he did........

[John from Riverside]

Also...it looks to me like he stuck his forearm out and Miller ran into it......

 

BUT...the league went by the rules and Kobe deservidly received a 2 game suspension for the elbow....

 

How many games did Raja get for a WWE closeline and bodyslam?

[bartshan-83]

You think what Raja did was an apology?  He was GLOATING about what he did........

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I never said he apologized...I said he admitted he was WRONG. He obviously was not sorry, but he stated that what he did was not the right thing.

But THIS is not gloating:

 

"It's been a pretty physical series, and at that point in time I had caught another elbow in the jaw and I lost my head and overreacted to it," Bell said. "It could have cost my team and for that I'm sorry."

 

"When I get hit in the face multiple times, you've stepped across the line with me," he said. "It's not basketball anymore. It was basketball for four games, then when he hit me in the face, that was the last straw last night. It still doesn't excuse me, but that's just the way I felt about it."

THIS is gloating:

 

"This being our home court, people come here and think it's Hollywood and all sorts of stuff, so they think they'll come down [the lane] and look pretty and shoot jump shots and dunk the ball and finger-roll the ball and do all sorts of cute stuff. And we've got to stop that." - Kobe Bryant

 

"Somebody comes down the lane, you've got to hit him," he said Friday. "You can't let them come down the lane and just finger roll and get easy baskets. Nothing to hurt anybody like that. That's just basic NBA basketball."

[bartshan-83]

Also...it looks to me like he stuck his forearm out and Miller ran into it......

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Really, John the discussion should end right here if you are honestly trying to the make the case the Miller RAN INTO KOBE'S ELBOW Wow.

 

BUT...the league went by the rules and Kobe deservidly received a 2 game suspension for the elbow....

 

The league went by the rules? What rules? Are you saying that there is a league rule in place that requires a TWO game suspension? Incorrect. It is a judgement call for David Stern.

 

And speaking of that, what do you think helped David Stern come to that decision? Couldn't have been Kobe GLOATING about it after the fact could it be? Let's ask Phil Jackson:

 

Lakers coach Phil Jackson said he thought Bryant's postgame comments were a factor in the suspension.

 

"I think that contributed to it somewhat," Jackson said. "So we live with that decision."

 

How many games did Raja get for a WWE closeline and bodyslam?

 

One...like he deserved. Bodyslam? Cmon.

 

The prosecution rests....

[John from Riverside]

I never said he apologized...I said he admitted he was WRONG.  He obviously was not sorry, but he stated that what he did was not the right thing.

But THIS is not gloating:

 

"It's been a pretty physical series, and at that point in time I had caught another elbow in the jaw and I lost my head and overreacted to it," Bell said. "It could have cost my team and for that I'm sorry."

 

"When I get hit in the face multiple times, you've stepped across the line with me," he said. "It's not basketball anymore. It was basketball for four games, then when he hit me in the face, that was the last straw last night. It still doesn't excuse me, but that's just the way I felt about it."

THIS is gloating:

 

"This being our home court, people come here and think it's Hollywood and all sorts of stuff, so they think they'll come down [the lane] and look pretty and shoot jump shots and dunk the ball and finger-roll the ball and do all sorts of cute stuff. And we've got to stop that." - Kobe Bryant

 

"Somebody comes down the lane, you've got to hit him," he said Friday. "You can't let them come down the lane and just finger roll and get easy baskets. Nothing to hurt anybody like that. That's just basic NBA basketball."

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That is taking words out of context....what Kobe is talking about is talking about taking hard fouls and not just letting players get layups (which was a problem for the lakers this year)

 

Hard fouls are a part of basketball....I dont see anybody bitching about the pistons on here who play that brand of basketball night in and night out.

[John from Riverside]

The league went by the rules?  What rules?  Are you saying that there is a league rule in place that requires a TWO game suspension?  Incorrect.  It is a judgement call for David Stern.

 

And speaking of that, what do you think helped David Stern come to that decision?  Couldn't have been Kobe GLOATING about it after the fact could it be?  Let's ask Phil Jackson:

 

Lakers coach Phil Jackson said he thought Bryant's postgame comments were a factor in the suspension.

 

"I think that contributed to it somewhat," Jackson said. "So we live with that decision."

One...like he deserved.  Bodyslam?  Cmon.

 

The prosecution rests....

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Raja closelined him and then pushed him in by his face while he was off balance to make sure he landed flat on his back on purpose....feel better about it now....

 

Normally that kind of play results in brawl but Kobe knew he was far more important to his team then Raja was to his. What a selfish jerk that Kobe is by getting up and walking away without retaliation.

[GoodBye]

YEEESSS!! Can't stand the Lakers!

[John from Riverside]

By the way....this is something I feel very strongly about (just as I do about the bills) so matter how many haters come out of the woodwork I will have Kobe's back on this.....

 

Much in the same way the people will go to the mat to defend Thurman Thomas and Jim Kelly.....who I know for a fact were not saints....but they were bills so I would defend them as well.

[bartshan-83]

That is taking words out of context....what Kobe is talking about is talking about taking hard fouls and not just letting players get layups (which was a problem for the lakers this year)

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Again... How am I possibly taking the quotes out of context, when those are Kobe's direct responses to the elbow he threw at Millers face!!! There is no other context. He is taking about that foul! He is saying that he thinks it is ok to do what he did. It isn't. It was retaliation. Something Bryant later claimed to be above. (see first post quote).

 

Hard fouls are a part of basketball....I dont see anybody bitching about the pistons on here who play that brand of basketball night in and night out.

Hard fouls yes. Flagrant fouls no. Hard fouls, Pistons. Flagrant foul, Kobe on Miller Raja on Kobe.

[GoodBye]

By the way....this is something I feel very strongly about (just as I do about the bills) so matter how many haters come out of the woodwork I will have Kobe's back on this.....

 

Much in the same way the people will go to the mat to defend Thurman Thomas and Jim Kelly.....who I know for a fact were not saints....but they were bills so I would defend them as well.

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For me it's more of a West Coast rivarly thing. Not necessarily anything against Kobe.

[John from Riverside]

Raja closelined him and then pushed him in by his face while he was off balance to make sure he landed flat on his back on purpose....feel better about it now....

 

Normally that kind of play results in brawl but Kobe knew he was far more important to his team then Raja was to his.  What a selfish jerk that Kobe is by getting up and walking away without retaliation.

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I am sorry I just realized you were talking about the Miller incident....

 

Kobe stuck his elbow out and Miller ran into it...it was as simple as that. He got a 2 game suspension for it and didn't complain about the suspension.