McCargo not big enough?

[Kelly the Dog]

The consensus seemed to be that John McCargo was not big and/or strong enough to play the 1 (nose) position over the center. And the D&C has this to say about that:

In Tripplett (6-2, 295) and McCargo (6-2, 301), Buffalo has quick players who play "three technique," which is off the offensive guard. In Tim Anderson (6-3, 304) and Williams (6-1, 295), the Bills have stronger, anchor types to play the "one" or nose position but who can also slash into the backfield.

McCargo at 6-2 301, I would argue is at least as big as Anderson at 6-3 304. And is known for his strength. An inch shorter and three pounds lighter is pretty much the same size, maybe bigger. When you're talking about being stout and strong.

[Lurker]

The consensus seemed to be that John McCargo was not big and/or strong enough to play the 1 (nose) position over the center. And the D&C has this to say about that:

 

McCargo at 6-2 301, I would argue is at least as big as Anderson at 6-3 304. And is known for his strength. An inch shorter and three pounds lighter is pretty much the same size, maybe bigger. When you're talking about being stout and strong.

684428[/snapback]

 

I think its more a center of gravity / body mass / leverage thing with Williams and Anderson. They're both maulers who have the ability to slug it out and hold their position, whereas McCargo's game seems to be about his terific first step quickness.

[OnTheRocks]

The consensus seemed to be that John McCargo was not big and/or strong enough to play the 1 (nose) position over the center. And the D&C has this to say about that:

 

McCargo at 6-2 301, I would argue is at least as big as Anderson at 6-3 304. And is known for his strength. An inch shorter and three pounds lighter is pretty much the same size, maybe bigger. When you're talking about being stout and strong.

684428[/snapback]

 

 

considering the Bills made a push for Ryan Pickett: 6'2" 322 lbs.

then no...right now, McCargo isn't big enough.

they have Anderson at the "1" and he isn't big enough, and after 3 years in the leauge, it isn't likely he will get much bigger.

McCargo however could still get bigger, and Kyle Williams could as well.

 

I think this all reflects just how big a problem it is that they didn't sign Pickett.

[Lurker]

I think this all reflects just how big a problem it is that they didn't sign Pickett.

684438[/snapback]

 

We keep getting hung up on the Ted Washington-type DT, since we saw how effective he was for so many years. The Tampa 2 defense doesn't rely on that type of guy, however, and even the stay-at-home DT's have to be smaller, quicker guys than Big Ted or Pickett.

[Ozymandius]

Besides height and weight, I think you have to take into account leg strength, previous experience, and player type/mentality. Kyle Williams owns the squat record at LSU and can probably anchor better than McCargo, he played more of the 1 in college while Wroten played the 3, and he is a high motor, slapfest guy that would enjoy taking on double teams. That's why he's more of a 1 than McCargo, who is more the type that likes to shoot gaps.

 

I don't doubt that McCargo COULD play the 1 if Anderson or Kyle get injured, but the Bills clearly want to stick to a defensive rotation and, at least at this point in time, they have targetted McCargo for the 3 behind Trips and Kyle/Timmay at the 1. That could change once they get into training camp and the coaches get a closer look...

[Ramius]

We keep getting hung up on the Ted Washington-type DT, since we saw how effective he was for so many years.  The Tampa 2 defense doesn't rely on that type of guy, however, and even the stay-at-home DT's have to be smaller,  quicker guys than Big Ted or Pickett.

684447[/snapback]

 

I've been saying this for weeks, and no one seems to listen. At least someone else gets it. 80% of the board is still worried because we havent signed a 350 clogger. We arent going to. The cover 2/tampa 2 have lighter quicker DT's in the 300 lb range.

[OnTheRocks]

i don't disagree, but i also don't know if you are correct either.

i have read articles from the Bills coching and scouting staff saying that McCargo is a better fit at the "3" position because he isn't big enough for the "1".

 

 

i have no links to support that, but i am certain i have read those "type" of statements over the past week.

[Stl Bills]

I think its more a center of gravity / body mass / leverage thing with Williams and Anderson.  They're both maulers who have the ability to slug it out and hold their position, whereas McCargo's game seems to be about his terific first step quickness.

684437[/snapback]

I have to disagree about Anderson. I've got every game Tivo'd from last year and when boredom sets in, I like to watch the games and try to see who did what (or who sucked the most). Anyway, one thing you can count on is that Tim Anderson will be 15 yards off of the line of scrimage when any run play is over. He gets blown up over and over again. I'm not trying to be overly negative but I didn't noticed any improvent in his game towards the end of last season (which some on this board have stated how much he improved). IMHO he sucks at playing the nose.

 

As for McCargo, who knows about his strength? Personally I've never seen the guy play so I don't really know. Just because he's a few pounds lighter than some other DTs on our roster does not mean he is stronger/weaker than those tackles. Even in the Tampa 2, you're not supposed to have two 3-tech. tackles, but if Marv and Co. really believe this kid has first round talent..he better be in there over Anderson. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[obie_wan]

Besides height and weight, I think you have to take into account leg strength, previous experience, and player type/mentality.  Kyle Williams owns the squat record at LSU and can probably anchor better than McCargo, he played more of the 1 in college while Wroten played the 3, and he is a high motor, slapfest guy that would enjoy taking on double teams.  That's why he's more of a 3 than McCargo, who is more the type that likes to shoot gaps.

 

I don't doubt that McCargo COULD play the 1 if Anderson or Kyle get injured, but the Bills clearly want to stick to a defensive rotation and, at least at this point in time, they have targetted McCargo for the 3 behind Trips and Kyle/Timmay at the 1.  That could change once they get into training camp and the coaches get a closer look...

684448[/snapback]

 

IF the Bills are really committed to playing their DTs in waves, you can see why they would rather lock up Whitner at #8 as the key to directing the entire defense, instead of taking the injury prone, 1 year wonder Bunkley who by definition would see only 50% of the defensive snaps.

[2003Contenders]

It sounds like the short-term plan is t have McCargo spell Tripplett and play along side him in passing downs. However, the coaches apparantly feel that McCargo can add some weight if he needs to play alongside Tripplett in oter situations.

[syhuang]

I've been saying this for weeks, and no one seems to listen. At least someone else gets it. 80% of the board is still worried because we havent signed a 350 clogger. We arent going to. The cover 2/tampa 2 have lighter quicker DT's in the 300 lb range.

684451[/snapback]

Exactly, tampa 2 doesn't need 350 cloggers.

 

The DTs in Bucs depth chart are McFarland (6-0, 300), Hovan (6-2, 296), Bradley (6-0, 301), and Wyms (6-3, 290).

 

Bears: Harris (6-3, 300), I.Scott (6-3, 302), T.Johnson (6-3, 300), and Boone (6-4, 318).

 

Colts: Simon (6-2, 293), Reagor (6-3, 285), Reid (6-2, 288), and Williams (6-3, 285).

 

Among the three, only Bears drafted a DT this year, Dvoracek (6-3, 298).

 

Thus, stop worrying about our DTs' sizes. We're fine.

[Kelly the Dog]

Exactly, tampa 2 doesn't need 350 cloggers.

 

The DTs in Bucs depth chart are McFarland (6-0, 300), Hovan (6-2, 296), Bradley (6-0, 301), and Wyms (6-3, 290).

 

Bears: Harris (6-3, 300), I.Scott (6-3, 302), T.Johnson (6-3, 300), and Boone (6-4, 318).

 

Colts: Simon (6-2, 293), Reagor (6-3, 285), Reid (6-2, 288), and Williams (6-3, 285).

 

Among the three, only Bears drafted a DT this year, Dvoracek (6-3, 298).

 

Thus, stop worrying about our DTs' sizes. We're fine.

684684[/snapback]

Thanks. Nice little summary.

[BUFFALOTONE]

This is where a good strength and conditioning coach gets paid. He will add that 10-15 lbs of muscle that they need to get them through the season. Also the guys like Whitner, Williams and Mccargoare gym rats, they like to keep in shape.

[obie_wan]

It sounds like the short-term plan is t have McCargo spell Tripplett and play along side him in passing downs. However, the coaches apparantly feel that McCargo can add some weight if he needs to play alongside Tripplett in oter situations.

684563[/snapback]

 

Here's a novel thought.

 

What if the Bills break with recent defensive strategy and don;t put the 2nd DT over the C?

 

Instead they line up both DTs over each guard and then shoot the gaps. Make teh G & C guess which gap they are shooting.

 

The you disrupt the backfield without the need for a large run stuffer.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Here's a novel thought.

 

What if the Bills break with recent defensive strategy and don;t put the 2nd DT over the C?

 

Instead they line up both DTs over each guard and then shoot the gaps. Make teh G & C  guess which gap they are shooting.

 

The you disrupt the backfield without the need for a large run stuffer.

684712[/snapback]

 

In theory.

[Kelly the Dog]

Here's a novel thought.

 

What if the Bills break with recent defensive strategy and don;t put the 2nd DT over the C?

 

Instead they line up both DTs over each guard and then shoot the gaps. Make teh G & C  guess which gap they are shooting.

 

The you disrupt the backfield without the need for a large run stuffer.

684712[/snapback]

Ummm... because the offense knows which way the play is going? And the guards and center are going to be looking to block a guy where that play is going? And if our guy chooses right (the direction of the play) the guard or center is going to be waiting for him and if he choose wrong he's taking himself out of the play?

[ax4782]

McCargo played all three positions at NC State over the last three years. He was more than strong enough to hold up at the one position. I went to NC State and watched him on Saturdays, live and in person. He's good enough. Six Pack is also right. They ran a system like that at NC State and it was effective enough to send three lineman to the NFL in the first round.

 

We need strength and quickness in this defense, not bulky and slow. With Clements resigning, this defense is simply going to maul opposition. That should help a mediocre offense win a few extra games.

[OnTheRocks]

Exactly, tampa 2 doesn't need 350 cloggers.

 

The DTs in Bucs depth chart are McFarland (6-0, 300), Hovan (6-2, 296), Bradley (6-0, 301), and Wyms (6-3, 290).

 

Bears: Harris (6-3, 300), I.Scott (6-3, 302), T.Johnson (6-3, 300), and Boone (6-4, 318).

 

Colts: Simon (6-2, 293), Reagor (6-3, 285), Reid (6-2, 288), and Williams (6-3, 285).

 

Among the three, only Bears drafted a DT this year, Dvoracek (6-3, 298).

 

Thus, stop worrying about our DTs' sizes. We're fine.

684684[/snapback]

 

 

nice post....and i hate being complimentary.

[Shamrock]

The consensus seemed to be that John McCargo was not big and/or strong enough to play the 1 (nose) position over the center. And the D&C has this to say about that:

 

McCargo at 6-2 301, I would argue is at least as big as Anderson at 6-3 304. And is known for his strength. An inch shorter and three pounds lighter is pretty much the same size, maybe bigger. When you're talking about being stout and strong.

684428[/snapback]

 

 

Dana Stubblefield 6'2" 300 mark to Bryant Young.

There's plenty of examples of guys playing the 1 technique at around 300 and the 3 technique at 285 ranges...

Chad Eaton 6'5" 300 mark to John Randle.

Brandon Noble and La'Roi Glover...

...hopefully McCargo is strong and can anchor in, bringing mobilty. There's no doubt he's "stout" by this listing.

I laughed at Williams being listed at 299lb- surely someone could have added a glass of water for 305lbs!

[/dev/null]

don't be fooled by the size of McCargoPants.

 

he may not look big to the untrained eye. but he can fit your cell phone, pda, toolkit, laptop, and a george foreman grill®