I am not defending the Bills' draft

[eball]

If you choose to answer, I'd like to hear some logical support for your position.

 

#1 -- Does anyone in his or her right mind think it would have been acceptable to start the season with either Coy Wire or Matt Bowen as our starting SS?

 

#2 -- Does anyone believe that Troy Vincent is the answer at FS for any longer than perhaps one year (if at all)?

 

#3 -- If I admit that the Buffalo OL underperformed last season, may I also reasonably suggest that the primary weakness was NOT at the two tackle positions?

 

#4 -- Do the pre-draft signings of Fowler (replacing Teague) and Reyes (replacing either Anderson or Villarial) present the POSSIBILITY of upgrading the prime area of weakness on the Buffalo OL?

 

#5 -- Do any of the Bills' draft picks fail to address a clear area of need on the roster?

 

#6 -- Did the Bills "waste" any draft picks on a curiosity (Parrish) or long-term project (McGahee) at the expense of immediate needs?

[Sisyphean Bills]

#7 -- Is your avatar wearing dental floss?

 

#8 -- Are you worried about your avatar catching a cold?

[stuckincincy]

Given the several spots they had to address, I think they did the best they could.

 

More OL's picked higher would have been nice, but there is a learning curve there. They likely have two starters in places of need. After a 5 -11 season, and the new CBA, I'm sure giving the fans some next-season improvement was on their minds.

 

Perhaps they will end up 5 - 11 again. But there is a world of difference in a loss, between being slapped around and putting forth a gritty effort.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

If you choose to answer, I'd like to hear some logical support for your position.

 

#1 -- Does anyone in his or her right mind think it would have been acceptable to start the season with either Coy Wire or Matt Bowen as our starting SS?

 

#2 -- Does anyone believe that Troy Vincent is the answer at FS for any longer than perhaps one year (if at all)?

 

#3 -- If I admit that the Buffalo OL underperformed last season, may I also reasonably suggest that the primary weakness was NOT at the two tackle positions?

 

#4 -- Do the pre-draft signings of Fowler (replacing Teague) and Reyes (replacing either Anderson or Villarial) present the POSSIBILITY of upgrading the prime area of weakness on the Buffalo OL?

 

#5 -- Do any of the Bills' draft picks fail to address a clear area of need on the roster?

 

#6 -- Did the Bills "waste" any draft picks on a curiosity (Parrish) or long-term project (McGahee) at the expense of immediate needs?

681675[/snapback]

 

1) No, but then again, Milloy didn't need to be cut. Vincent did.

 

2) See #1.

 

3) You could say that. But if you're insinuating that the Tackles were strenghts, I'd say you were stretching it a bit. Peters performed admirably given his background and Gandy was, well, Gandy.

 

4) The possibility, yes. But in order to make a difference, they'll have to be a HUGE upgrade, IMO.

 

5) Yes. A passrushing DE would have been nice.

 

6) define waste.

 

McCargo seems to be a reach, IMO. If reaching is wasting, then yes, it's a waste.

[Bob in STL]

If you choose to answer, I'd like to hear some logical support for your position.

 

#1 -- Does anyone in his or her right mind think it would have been acceptable to start the season with either Coy Wire or Matt Bowen as our starting SS?

 

#2 -- Does anyone believe that Troy Vincent is the answer at FS for any longer than perhaps one year (if at all)?

 

#3 -- If I admit that the Buffalo OL underperformed last season, may I also reasonably suggest that the primary weakness was NOT at the two tackle positions?

 

#4 -- Do the pre-draft signings of Fowler (replacing Teague) and Reyes (replacing either Anderson or Villarial) present the POSSIBILITY of upgrading the prime area of weakness on the Buffalo OL?

 

#5 -- Do any of the Bills' draft picks fail to address a clear area of need on the roster?

 

#6 -- Did the Bills "waste" any draft picks on a curiosity (Parrish) or long-term project (McGahee) at the expense of immediate needs?

681675[/snapback]

 

 

1 - No doubt we needed a SS and Whitner is the man. Expect growing pains this year but he should be an excellent SS for years to come.

 

2 - Vincent is done. R. Baker looked promissing at times. Ko Simpson has ALOT to learn but could be an excellent player ... next year.

 

3 - The primary weakness was indeed the interior but lets face it the tackles are not strong either. Maybe Peters will continue to develop into a solid player. I would have loved to see Justice drafted at 26 and gamble that McCargo is there at 42. I admit, I know less than Marv and Modrak. They made sure thay got there man (McCargo).

 

4 - Fowler and Reyes should be an upgrade. If anything, at least we know that under Marv's management style, McNally had some input on them.

 

5 - All picks indeed address need. Our problem is we have more needs than quality picks. My only issue is that we did not get a top OL prospect, instead we have a few developmental projects.

 

6 - We are so weak it almost impossible to waste a pick. For our current roster, using a day one pick on WR, LB and QB would have been questionable, but taking good players is smarter than drafting by postion.

 

Overall I think the draft went well. I understand the logic behind the picks and the draft complemented the moves made in free agency.

 

It looks to me like Marv has a plan.

[eball]

1) No, but then again, Milloy didn't need to be cut. Vincent did.

 

2) See #1.

681706[/snapback]

Milloy was hardly a difference maker last year. At his salary, he was expendable -- particularly since the Bills had a plan for his replacement.

 

3) You could say that. But if you're insinuating that the Tackles were strenghts, I'd say you were stretching it a bit. Peters performed admirably given his background and Gandy was, well, Gandy.

681706[/snapback]

I didn't say the tackles were strengths, but if they're not glaring weaknesses then high draft picks don't need to be used when there are other glaring weaknesses on the roster.

 

4) The possibility, yes. But in order to make a difference, they'll have to be a HUGE upgrade, IMO.

681706[/snapback]

What are you talking about? An upgrade is an upgrade. If they're better, we'll run better and we'll pass better.

 

5) Yes. A passrushing DE would have been nice.

 

6) define waste.

681706[/snapback]

I asked in #5 if any of the picks made failed to address a need, not if there's a need you believe the Bills failed to address.

 

I did define "waste" -- a curiosity or project pick.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Milloy was hardly a difference maker last year.  At his salary, he was expendable -- particularly since the Bills had a plan for his replacement.

 

Do you feel he made more of a difference than Vincent?

 

I didn't say the tackles were strengths, but if they're not glaring weaknesses then high draft picks don't need to be used when there are other glaring weaknesses on the roster.

 

If they're not strengths, doesn't that make them if not a weakness, an area of need? Is Gandy REALLY the LT solution?

 

What are you talking about?  An upgrade is an upgrade.  If they're better, we'll run better and we'll pass better.

 

not if they are minor upgrades, we won't. Let's hope for the best here.

 

I asked in #5 if any of the picks made failed to address a need, not if there's a need you believe the Bills failed to address.

 

Well, had #1 not been botched by cutting the wrong person, IMO then SS would not have been a need this season. It was a self-made "need".

 

I did define "waste" -- a curiosity or project pick.

 

Ko? Or is he polished enough to play?

[eball]

Do you feel he made more of a difference than Vincent?

If they're not strengths, doesn't that make them if not a weakness, an area of need? Is Gandy REALLY the LT solution?

not if they are minor upgrades, we won't. Let's hope for the best here.

Well, had #1 not been botched by cutting the wrong person, IMO then SS would not have been a need this season. It was a self-made "need".

Ko? Or is he polished enough to play?

681746[/snapback]

I think Vincent adds more to the team in other areas (leadership, presence) than Milloy at this point in their careers.

 

Of course Gandy isn't the long-term LT solution, but he was very serviceable last year and can be again for the next couple of years. How many teams have "stud" LTs? Which one was available for the Bills to select or sign?

 

Ko Simpson was All-SEC. He made plays. I don't view him as a project, although he will certainly benefit from learning how to play the "pro" game under Vincent.

[BuffaloBilliever]

#1 -- Does anyone in his or her right mind think it would have been acceptable to start the season with either Coy Wire or Matt Bowen as our starting SS?

 

----Of course not, I thought it would be a great idea to pick up a Safety period. Marv has his head in the right place.

 

#2 -- Does anyone believe that Troy Vincent is the answer at FS for any longer than perhaps one year (if at all)?

 

---- I don't even know if he'll be there this year...

 

#3 -- If I admit that the Buffalo OL underperformed last season, may I also reasonably suggest that the primary weakness was NOT at the two tackle positions?

 

---- It doesn't even matter, we filled in with the new beauty in an excellent lineman (reyes). Chris Villarial (who went to my college) is a good guard, but getting a bit old, Bennie needs to be replaced, and I believe that Fowler will be an excellent addition, though he will only do marginally better than Trey. Peters has proven himself to be a solid starter, too.

 

#4 -- Do the pre-draft signings of Fowler (replacing Teague) and Reyes (replacing either Anderson or Villarial) present the POSSIBILITY of upgrading the prime area of weakness on the Buffalo OL?

 

------- Read above.

 

#5 -- Do any of the Bills' draft picks fail to address a clear area of need on the roster?

 

----- Ellis immediately but he will be needed in the future when Posey departs.

 

#6 -- Did the Bills "waste" any draft picks on a curiosity (Parrish) or long-term project (McGahee) at the expense of immediate needs?

 

---- No, even though some people really want to believe that Whitner is a "project" AND a "curiiosity".

 

What we've done here is not take overhyped, "star" players and took players that we could mold and develop in to our scheme that we are pretty sure (closer to positive) that we can make work and will last for a long time.

 

You forgot...

 

#7 -- Who was the best pick up in the offseason?

 

---- MARTIN NANCE BABY

[MDH]

It's obvious from all the posts you've made that you're "not defending the Bills draft."

[ans4e64]

If you choose to answer, I'd like to hear some logical support for your position.

 

#1 -- Does anyone in his or her right mind think it would have been acceptable to start the season with either Coy Wire or Matt Bowen as our starting SS?

 

#2 -- Does anyone believe that Troy Vincent is the answer at FS for any longer than perhaps one year (if at all)?

 

#3 -- If I admit that the Buffalo OL underperformed last season, may I also reasonably suggest that the primary weakness was NOT at the two tackle positions?

 

#4 -- Do the pre-draft signings of Fowler (replacing Teague) and Reyes (replacing either Anderson or Villarial) present the POSSIBILITY of upgrading the prime area of weakness on the Buffalo OL?

 

#5 -- Do any of the Bills' draft picks fail to address a clear area of need on the roster?

 

#6 -- Did the Bills "waste" any draft picks on a curiosity (Parrish) or long-term project (McGahee) at the expense of immediate needs?

681675[/snapback]

 

good post

[John from Riverside]

If you choose to answer, I'd like to hear some logical support for your position.

 

#1 -- Does anyone in his or her right mind think it would have been acceptable to start the season with either Coy Wire or Matt Bowen as our starting SS?

 

No....I was thinking it was going to be Matt Bowen and was not encouraged by that....I think getting Dante (and Ko Simpson) was a smart move.

 

#2 -- Does anyone believe that Troy Vincent is the answer at FS for any longer than perhaps one year (if at all)?

 

Everyone pretty much expects this to be Troy's last year...I think he would make an excellent mentor to Ko and then there is the issue that Troy cant seem to stay healthy for a whole year so Ko provides excellent depth

 

#3 -- If I admit that the Buffalo OL underperformed last season, may I also reasonably suggest that the primary weakness was NOT at the two tackle positions? 

 

The problems were NOT our tackles and I get tired of people bagging on Gandy....Gandy did a pretty damn good job considering the position they have him in and he makes a better RT....Peters came in and frankly dominated and got better every week....the weakness was in the interior of the line...Villy was INJURED....Teague is a stiff.....and Anderson had no business starting.....

 

#4 -- Do the pre-draft signings of Fowler (replacing Teague) and Reyes (replacing either Anderson or Villarial) present the POSSIBILITY of upgrading the prime area of weakness on the Buffalo OL?

 

#5 -- Do any of the Bills' draft picks fail to address a clear area of need on the roster?

 

#6 -- Did the Bills "waste" any draft picks on a curiosity (Parrish) or long-term project (McGahee) at the expense of immediate needs?

681675[/snapback]

[jarthur31]

If you choose to answer, I'd like to hear some logical support for your position.

 

#1 -- Does anyone in his or her right mind think it would have been acceptable to start the season with either Coy Wire or Matt Bowen as our starting SS?

 

#2 -- Does anyone believe that Troy Vincent is the answer at FS for any longer than perhaps one year (if at all)?

 

#3 -- If I admit that the Buffalo OL underperformed last season, may I also reasonably suggest that the primary weakness was NOT at the two tackle positions?

 

#4 -- Do the pre-draft signings of Fowler (replacing Teague) and Reyes (replacing either Anderson or Villarial) present the POSSIBILITY of upgrading the prime area of weakness on the Buffalo OL?

 

#5 -- Do any of the Bills' draft picks fail to address a clear area of need on the roster?

 

#6 -- Did the Bills "waste" any draft picks on a curiosity (Parrish) or long-term project (McGahee) at the expense of immediate needs?

681675[/snapback]

 

We are not worthy......we are not worthy......we are not worthy! This post is dead on. Kudos to you, sir.

[PromoTheRobot]

McCargo seems to be a reach, IMO. If reaching is wasting, then yes, it's a waste.

681706[/snapback]

If McCargo becomes a player, who cares where he was drafted. People's memories are short. Value is a creation of the Kipers and Kiper-clones. It means absolutely nothing. That's right, nothing. Because players still have to play. Mike Williams was a "value" pick, and how did he work out? We got an A+ for that 2001 draft. What did that get us? Draft grades are like pissing your pants. It gives you a warm feeling for a little while.

 

PTR

[ax4782]

Vincent is still much better than average at safety. Keep in mind, he played corner for most of his career. He makes a big difference in a number of areas, including leadership and toughness. He's still quick enough to start and will be a great mentor for both Whitner and Simpson.

 

I think the biggest problem with the OL was at tackle and that once Williams was moved to guard and Peters was put in the tackle spot, tackle improved. Villarial's injuries last season didn't help. Fowler and Reyes are good upgrades and will make us a better running team on first and second down.

 

Lastly, I went to NC State and had the opportunity to see McCargo, Williams, and Lawson all play together every Saturday they played in Raleigh. McCargo played EVERY position on the DL, not just tackle, though that is where NC State primarily used him. Many times, McCargo was the reason Lawson and Williams thrived. He would break through the center of the line and flush the play towards Lawson or Williams, whichever direction the set called for. Without McCargo's speed in the middle or from the outside, Williams and Lawson would have had a much more difficult task. He is a solid player and would have been selected by the Giants at 32 and we would have been stuck with a second rate DT and that would not have helped.

 

Ferguson was the only First Round Tackle, period. Justice was too raw and had way too many character problems for Buffalo to draft him. He would have been the next Mike Williams in Buffalo. Levy did a good job, fixed a lot of problems and is building effectively for the future.

 

Go Sabres!!!

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

#1 -- Does anyone in his or her right mind think it would have been acceptable to start the season with either Coy Wire or Matt Bowen as our starting SS?

 

!@#$ No. This was one of our worst positions on defense, outside of the dline. Some of these guys are going to get cut. I believe currently we have FS- Vincent,Baker,Leonard,Rob Lee,KO Simpson. SS- Matt Bowen, Coy Wire, Whitner. No way 8 safeties make the final roster. 4 of these guys are gone.

 

#2 -- Does anyone believe that Troy Vincent is the answer at FS for any longer than perhaps one year (if at all)?

 

I liked the idea of signing troy vincent when we first brought him him to be a stop gap to Antoine Winfield for a team that had a strong defense and being so called "on the cusp" it was a sound decision. However Vincent is aging, and I dont want to say he lacks heart, but injuries players a few years younger would play thru Vincent seems content to go through the motions. I'd keep him around one more year to mentor KO Simpson.

 

#3 -- If I admit that the Buffalo OL underperformed last season, may I also reasonably suggest that the primary weakness was NOT at the two tackle positions?

 

Yeah, and you'd reasonably be right, however that doesnt mean the two current tackles are "areas of strength" either. I know thats not what you were insinuating but tackle is definitly something that has to be adressed. Mike Gandy is pedestrian at best and Jason Peters is far from a finished project. His run blocking is quite porous. I dont know much about Reyes thats wait and see for me. Fowler is an upgrade over Teague and hopefully someone can push Villarrial for playing time as well. This really wasnt any great year for offensive linemen.

 

#4 -- Do the pre-draft signings of Fowler (replacing Teague) and Reyes (replacing either Anderson or Villarial) present the POSSIBILITY of upgrading the prime area of weakness on the Buffalo OL?

 

Basically the same question and answer as above.

 

#5 -- Do any of the Bills' draft picks fail to address a clear area of need on the roster?

 

I would've liked a pass rushing end instead of youboty. I get it Youboty was picked "if" we can't re-sign Nate. However I get kind of discouraged that we always let good players go. I'd hate to see Clements leave especially in his prime. I really hope something gets worked out there.

 

#6 -- Did the Bills "waste" any draft picks on a curiosity (Parrish) or long-term project (McGahee) at the expense of immediate needs?

 

Parrish was a waste of a pick, I still dont get why we drafted him. We had players who can return punts, and Im sure we could've found anyone to be a future slot receiver. Not worth wasting our first pick last year on. You can make the travis henry argument for McGahee but I obviousily wont. Henry will be lucky to be productive in this league ever again, while Willis has shown he is capable.

 

Say what you want but all top tier backs in this league have a good passing offense to open up running lanes. We don't. We also have a poor run blocking line. McGahee showed more what he's capable of doing in 04 when Bledsoe respresented the threat of a passing offense. Holcomb/Losman dont have the respect of defenses to stop teams from stacking the los. McGahee was also poorly used.

 

I know everyone hates to hear this so I want to make it clear. I'm not judging losman but I think we wasted picks taking him. Nothing against him I think he's a talented qb who has had poor direction under Donahe/Mularkey but in the interest of improving the team I would've prefered Matt Schaub and kept picks to fill other areas of need while Keeping Bledsoe at least for one more year, but it what it is. Now I'd worry about just worry about building a team instead of hoping one guy carries us.

[ax4782]

Matt Schaub was an average QB at UVa who was made to look a lot better because of the line he played behind. He has played decently as a back up in ATL, but not spectacularly. That would have been a bad choice. Losman was handed the job last year before he was ready, and I think this year he will be a much better QB from what happened to him last year. Rarely does a good QB come out in his first year.

 

Playing the shoulda game, one could argue that Lee Evans would have been available later in the 2003 draft and that Buffalo should have moved up from 13 to get Roethelsberger rather than drafting Evans. That would have been better than Schaub, for sure. Oh well. That's history. Let's look at the future based on what we have.

 

Go Sabres!!!

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

I wasn't trying to make it Losman vs Schaub some other day maybe. I was attacking it from the angle of having to give up picks for one vs not having to give up picks at the time for the other. Who knows how those picks would've turned out but they could've gone a long way to building a team around our skill players instead of hoping skill players can build a winning team. Im not a fan of trade ups especially when they cost us numerous high picks.

 

You brought up an interesting point about Evans however I dont think he would've made it that much further, and he's been highly productive infact the 2nd most productive wr out of that draft other then fitz. There was a lot of guys I think we could've taken. Maybe Tommie Harris/Wilfork. Oh Well like I said earlier Ya cant go back so nows the time to build a team around the skill players.

[ax4782]

On the QB thing, understood. I think Losman will do well this year and that Schaub would never have been better than a backup, but you pays your money and you takes your chances.

 

I did not know that Evans had been as productive as you are suggesting compared to the rest of his class, which included some other big names. That is an interesting point that does not get very much attention.

 

Further, we were both going on the assumption that TD was smart enough to draft other non-skill need positions, which, based on past performance seems unlikely to have been the case. Anyway, as you said, time to look at the future with the team we have, not what we could have had.

 

Go Sabres!!!

[Mark VI]

I think we're starting to see what many of us have been saying all along. We need 2 off-seasons, at least, to fix the mess that TD left.

 

Still need an upgrade at OG, a pass rushing DE, a LT to eventually replace Gandy and a solid backup at RB.

 

Solving the glaring needs at both Safety positions and DT depth was a good start. So was finding the replacement for Nate. Might need him sooner than planned.

 

For this year, the Bills must coach around some shortages and hopefully avoid the injury bug.