Billick confirmed on radio this morning

[JDG]

I don't think that anybody questions whether or not the kid is good. Some just have a problem with loading up in the secondary, and trading away an early pick to do so.

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But Bill, our depth chart at Safety was Vincent - Bowen - Wire - Baker. Can there really be any argument that Safety was a key need for this team - a team that had an unbelievably putrid defense last year?

 

If you go by the theory that you use a Top 10 pick on either a QB of the future of an instant starter, then the vacancies for "instant starter" in Buffalo were at SS, OLB, and DT. Winston Justice wasn't going to displace either Gandy or Peters as a rookie, and the Bills don't seem crazy about either Ngata or Bunkley. It seems to me that Whitner was the best pick, based on the players available in the draft.

 

JDG

[ajzepp]

someone - i forget who - wrote here 2 days ago that "even if he turns out to be a hall of famer, it would have been the wrong pick." this simply shows that draftnikism has become a pox upon the house of football fandom.

679754[/snapback]

HOly sh--, the Bills are gonna win the superbowl this year.....me agreeing with Dave McBride is akin to hell Freezing over

 

I think Lurker is essentially making the same point above, too, so I agree with this general sentiment. If the guy ends up being as good as a Polamalu, then I think MOST of us will forget about where he was drafted - unless it's to think about what a great steal he was at the eighth pick

[KOKBILLS]

You might be on to something....let's make it a requirement that anyone who has come out to say that they hated the Witner pick must put the following in their signature....

 

I AM A HUGE COY WIRE FAN!

 

Any takers? 

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I do know enough about Whitner to assume once he gets settled in he will be a significant Upgrade at SS...Even if the Bills had kept Milloy, he would still be an Upgrade...And a considerable one at that...

[ajzepp]

I do know enough about Whitner to assume once he gets settled in he will be a significant Upgrade at SS...Even if the Bills had kept Milloy, he would still be an Upgrade...And a considerable one at that...

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Man, remember a couple of seasons ago when we picked up the Lawyer just before the first game, and then we went on to just MASSACRE the Pats in Orchard Park? Geesh, I REALLY thought that we had turned the corner at that point. Lawyer has been a good player for us since that time, but I don't really miss him. We need to upgrade the position and hopefully Whitner will do just that.

[JDG]

You know, so what if the Ravens took Whitner?  Or Detriot?  Where the Bills drafted him, he's going to have to be the next Ronnie Lott.

 

Fans seem to have this deluded perception that the #8 pick in the draft should produce a surefire Hall of Famer. But here's some recent picks at that level:

 

#9 - Reggie Williams, WR

#8 - David Terrell, WR

#10 - Jamal Reynolds, DE

#7 - Thomas Jones, RB

#10 - Travis Taylor, WR

#9 - Chris Claiborne, LB

#9 - Tom Knight, DB

 

I think there will be some reason to be happy about Whitner if he just simply performs better than that illustrious group....

 

JDG

[OGTEleven]

McCargo's agent said the Giants called and were ready to take him at 32. After the Bills grabbed him, they settled for the BC Defensive End.

 

Why should he lie ?

679678[/snapback]

I live near Albany and have heard that in a couple of different places. One NY beat reporter was on a local sports radio show and said the whole room was confused at the DE pick and thought the Giants needed DT. It does seem to explain a few things regarding the Giants moves.

[Lurker]

Right now, I don't know if Whitner can carry Polamalu's jock, let alone be as good as Polamalu.

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Right now, you can say the same thing about any of the seven guys drafted ahead of him...let alone all the other draft picks. OSU's track record on DBs in the NFL give a pretty good hint that this kid could be good.

 

Quick, off the top of your head, who is the last top 10 drafted, Hall-of-Fame career, SS that's played in the Bucs cover-2?

679752[/snapback]

 

Seeing that the Tampa 2 defense has only been around about a decade, no one yet. But that doesn't mean that safeties aren't having a bigger and bigger impact on the current state of the NFL game. Roy Williams, Polamalu, Taylor, etc. are prime examples.

[Bill from NYC]

But Bill, our depth chart at Safety was Vincent - Bowen - Wire - Baker.    Can there really be any argument that Safety was a key need for this team - a team that had an unbelievably putrid defense last year?

 

If you go by the theory that you use a Top 10 pick on either a QB of the future of an instant starter, then the vacancies for "instant starter" in Buffalo were at SS, OLB, and DT.  Winston Justice wasn't going to displace either Gandy or Peters as a rookie, and the Bills don't seem crazy about either Ngata or Bunkley.  It seems to me that Whitner was the best pick, based on the players available in the draft.

 

JDG

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Your point is clearly taken. John, tell the truth. Did you think that after the first pick, 2 of the next 3 would be MORE dbs?

 

I am merely making the case that I don't think that this is a way to build a football team. The individual players could obviously be good, bad or so-so. Did we need secondary help? Of course, but what we did was extreme imo.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Well...I don't know about Ronnie Lott...

 

I'll give the Kid a break and say Ed Reed...

 

Fine. Plug in any name that has had a brilliant career that you want. It hardly changes the original point. If he's just so-so or falls to injury (it happens all the time and is not as far-fetched as some want to wish), then people trot out the Bust word.

 

I think there is a MASSIVE diiference in the Picks of Whitner and Parrish...Whitner is a Safety that fits the Cover-2, but I'm pretty sure with his whole package he could fit in on most Teams at Free or Strong...I think comparing Whitner to a "Luxury Pick" is a bit of a reach as well...This was a HUGE Need on this Roster, unless in fact you are a Coy Wire Fan...

 

I'd be concerned about his lack of size as the SS in a 46.

 

The Bills had Bowen and Wire. The Saints are apparently shopping their safeties and Dwight Smith would be an adequate and experienced plug for the hole.

 

But I do agree that Whitner better be REAL good...There is no question the Bills fell in love with the Kid...It should be interesting to compare Whitner's progress to Huff's in a few Years as well...

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I'm not bashing Whitner. Actually, I like what I've seen and read about him. As I've said before, I just don't like the draft strategy.

 

Well, they can always address the lines next year.

[Alaska Darin]

I'd be concerned about his lack of size as the SS in a 46.

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We're not playing a 46. His size is virtually identical to both Ed Reed and Mike Brown - who're among the best safeties in the game.

[ajzepp]

Your point is clearly taken. John, tell the truth. Did you think that after the first pick, 2 of the next 3 would be MORE dbs?

 

I am merely making the case that I don't think that this is a way to build a football team. The individual players could obviously be good, bad or so-so. Did we need secondary help? Of course, but what we did was extreme imo.

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Bill, check this out: http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/homeNews...il.jsp?id=43460

 

After you go to the link, tell me if that draft had any impact on the Eagles

[OGTEleven]

You know, so what if the Ravens took Whitner?  Or Detriot?  Where the Bills drafted him, he's going to have to be the next Ronnie Lott.  I hope he is that good, but if he's just an average to slightly above average player that fills a hole in a particular defensive system, then one has to ask if he was truly the only player out there that could fill that hole.  If Whitner was taken by somebody else, the Bills should've had some other option.  The problem is this wrong-headed thinking that there were no other options and, especially, that there were no other needs on this team.  We've been tearing Tom Donahoe a ragged new orifice for his luxury picks like Roscoe "Lil Big Man" only to see the new regime go for a pure cover-2 system safety.

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It's fine to have that opinion but you sound so definitive. If you are so sure, why not name the player the Bills should have taken instead or as option B with a trade down? By not naming anyone, you don't really back up your opinion.

[34-78-83]

 

I'd be concerned about his lack of size as the SS in a 46.

 

 

679808[/snapback]

 

 

Me too. Good thing were not implementing the 4-6 or any that resembles it.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Your point is clearly taken. John, tell the truth. Did you think that after the first pick, 2 of the next 3 would be MORE dbs?

 

I am merely making the case that I don't think that this is a way to build a football team. The individual players could obviously be good, bad or so-so. Did we need secondary help? Of course, but what we did was extreme imo.

679797[/snapback]

 

Right. Don't let them try to change the argument into something its not with these "you guys are just bashing Whitner" and "you guys must love Bowens/Wire" arguments. Or the even more lame "you're obviously not a fan if you don't suck it up and like it" attack the messenger crap. We're entitled to hold opinions on how to build a winning football team as much as anybody else.

[JDG]

Your point is clearly taken. John, tell the truth. Did you think that after the first pick, 2 of the next 3 would be MORE dbs?

 

I am merely making the case that I don't think that this is a way to build a football team. The individual players could obviously be good, bad or so-so. Did we need secondary help? Of course, but what we did was extreme imo.

679797[/snapback]

 

Well, before the draft, my opinion was that the just about the only position of non-need on the Bills was a punter. Obviously, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but its pretty close to the truth - especially once you get out of the 1st round, and you're no longer expecting to draft instant starters.

 

Now, I will say that I did absolutely think that Nickel CB was a glaring need for this team, as I firmly believe that the Nickel CB should be treated as a "starter" in this League. The great thing about the Yobouty pick is that he could instantly take that job away from King and Greer - and based on the second Miami game, that can only be a good thing. There weren't any offensive or defensive linemen in that round who could get as much playing time as Yobouty will. And given the way Clements played last year, I think that we might all have highly underrated our needs at the CB position.

 

As for Ko Simpson, he was definitely a mild surprise, but only mildly because in the 4th round you aren't necessarily drafting for this year. Given Vincent's age, drafting a future Free Safety is a very reasonable proposition. Moreover, Simpson was clearly the very top player on the Bills' board at the time, by a long shot, and so they did the right thing and took the best player. And its not like they drafted a guy who can't ever hope for any playing time. He'll be able to spell Vincent this year, and as Vincent approaches retirement, he provides security at the position as well....

 

JDG

[dave mcbride]

Me too. Good thing were not implementing the 4-6 or any that resembles it.

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LOL! also, blaine bishop was a great 4-6 safety and was 5-10. so it's pretty irrelevant in any case.

[Sisyphean Bills]

It's fine to have that opinion but you sound so definitive.  If you are so sure, why not name the player the Bills should have taken instead or as option B with a trade down?  By not naming anyone, you don't really back up your opinion.

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It all depends, doesn't it? I'm not as entirely convinced Whitner wouldn't have lasted a few more picks as some are. Who is the trade partner? Do we trade down and back up? How was Bunkley really graded out for the Bills system? The Bills went secondary over offensive line. Maybe that was a good call, maybe it wasn't.

 

If I sound definitive, it is that I do think there were options and that there were partners willing. Still, the Bills didn't like the options and it's water under the bridge.

[OGTEleven]

Right.  Don't let them try to change the argument into something its not with these "you guys are just bashing Whitner" and "you guys must love Bowens/Wire" arguments.  Or the even more lame "you're obviously not a fan if you don't suck it up and like it" attack the messenger crap.  We're entitled to hold opinions on how to build a winning football team as much as anybody else. 

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And so far you've named exactly no one you would have taken instead of DW.

[Sisyphean Bills]

LOL! also, blaine bishop was a great 4-6 safety and was 5-10. so it's pretty irrelevant in any case.

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The original argument was that Whitner would be great in most any defense in the NFL. This is far from an absolute certainty. I happen to think he would not be coveted by a team that ran the bear defense, for example. Which is irrelevant only if you don't understand the argument.

[Lurker]

We're not playing a 46.  His size is virtually identical to both Ed Reed and Mike Brown - who're among the best safeties in the game.

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And Polamalu's the same height, 5 pounds heavier and runs about the same forty time (on a fast track).

 

And, as you pointed out, Ed Reed has about the same measurables, too.

 

AD, yesterday when the pick was made I was very down on it, too (since I had never given much thought to drafting this kid or filling the SS need). But after doing more DD on him and the Tampa 2 scheme, this pick seems like a very good move. Thanks for putting me in my place.