Billick confirmed on radio this morning

[Sisyphean Bills]

And so far you've named exactly no one you would have taken instead of DW.

679845[/snapback]

 

And, if I did this would prove what? Exactly nothing. It would just be more conjecture and we've had tons of that already.

 

But, it would be some fuel, right? You can go all attack dog on a list of names and "prove" something... <sigh>

[MattyT]

And Polamalu's the same height, 5 pounds heavier and runs about the same forty time (on a fast track). 

679866[/snapback]

Take away 5 lbs of hair and they're equal.

[OGTEleven]

And, if I did this would prove what?  Exactly nothing.  It would just be more conjecture and we've had tons of that already.

 

But, it would be some fuel, right?  You can go all attack dog on a list of names and "prove" something... <sigh>

679868[/snapback]

Don't sigh about it because it is exactly what you are doing about Whittner. You are saying we could have done better than him. Who would have been better?

[obie_wan]

Don't sigh about it because it is exactly what you are doing about Whittner.  You are saying we could have done better than him.  Who would have been better?

679872[/snapback]

The alleged trade partners were Philly (#14), Denver(#15) and Minnesota (#17).

 

Whitner would have gone to Detroit, Rams or Ravens.

 

Philly would have taken Bunkely and Ngata was gone. Justice was highly overrated.

 

RBs, LBs, WRs and CBs were available- Any player picked after a trade down would not start for the Bills this year - and more importantly would not fill the biggest needs on the team (S, OT,DT)

 

So who should they have picked after mmoving down?

[Dawgg]

Better than Whitner would have been:

 

Moving down in the first and picking up an extra 2nd or a 3rd and have a slight chance at nabbing Whitner with a later pick. If he's gone, grab Tamba Hali or Greenway, or Lawson all three of which could step in and help this team right away. In doing so you acquire an extra pick AND you save a ton of money.

 

The way TD turned the 13 overall pick into Nate Clements and Travis Henry is a perfect illustration of this concept.

 

Don't sigh about it because it is exactly what you are doing about Whittner.  You are saying we could have done better than him.  Who would have been better?

679872[/snapback]

[RayFinkle]

Heard this second-hand, but I have no reason to doubt its accuracy.  So, Marv-bashers, STFU.

679661[/snapback]

 

So an unnamed source told you the man on the radio said the Ravens were going to take Whitner, so it is fact. The man on the TV said the Whitner pick was a reach and that is BS.....Cool, I think I get it now.....or maybe not.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Don't sigh about it because it is exactly what you are doing about Whittner.  You are saying we could have done better than him.  Who would have been better?

679872[/snapback]

 

Ahem. Bullsh--! I have not once attacked Whitner. Others want to derail the debate by making it look like an attack on Whitner, but putting words in people's mouths isn't the same as saying them.

[Rico]

You know, so what if the Ravens took Whitner?  Or Detriot?  Where the Bills drafted him, he's going to have to be the next Ronnie Lott.  I hope he is that good, but if he's just an average to slightly above average player that fills a hole in a particular defensive system, then one has to ask if he was truly the only player out there that could fill that hole. 

679715[/snapback]

Correct... The next Lott would be great, I'll settle for the next Ed Reed , but not the next Antoine Winfield at #8. Here's hoping for the best.

[dave mcbride]

Better than Whitner would have been:

 

Moving down in the first and picking up an extra 2nd or a 3rd and have a slight chance at nabbing Whitner with a later pick.  If he's gone, grab Tamba Hali or Greenway, or Lawson all three of which could step in and help this team right away.  In doing so you acquire an extra pick AND you save a ton of money.

 

The way TD turned the 13 overall pick into Nate Clements and Travis Henry is a perfect illustration of this concept.

679892[/snapback]

but donohoe wouldn't have traded down if he had been able to select marcus stroud, who was picked immediately before by jax. that's why he traded down - he lost the player he allegedly wanted. in any event, it's a tough choice, but if pressed i'd take stroud over clements and henry today.

 

the bills clearly wanted whitner, so there was no need to trade down. it's not as if he's the equivalent of the OT tampa took that fans wanted the bills to draft. you really can't compare the scenarios.

[Bill from NYC]

Well, before the draft, my opinion was that the just about the only position of non-need on the Bills was a punter.  Obviously, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but its pretty close to the truth - especially once you get out of the 1st round, and you're no longer expecting to draft instant starters. 

 

Now, I will say that I did absolutely think that Nickel CB was a glaring need for this team, as I firmly believe that the Nickel CB should be treated as a "starter" in this League.    The great thing about the Yobouty pick is that he could instantly take that job away from King and Greer - and based on the second Miami game, that can only be a good thing.  There weren't any offensive or defensive linemen in that round who could get as much playing time as Yobouty will.  And given the way Clements played last year, I think that we might all have highly underrated our needs at the CB position.

 

As for Ko Simpson, he was definitely a mild surprise, but only mildly because in the 4th round you aren't necessarily drafting for this year.  Given Vincent's age, drafting a future Free Safety is a very reasonable proposition.  Moreover, Simpson was clearly the very top player on the Bills' board at the time, by a long shot, and so they did the right thing and took the best player.  And its not like they drafted a guy who can't ever hope for any playing time.  He'll be able to spell Vincent this year, and as Vincent approaches retirement, he provides security at the position as well....

 

JDG

679831[/snapback]

 

In that sense, could there have been ANY scenario that would have led you to suspect that the Bills used too many resources on the secondary?

[syhuang]

Better than Whitner would have been:

 

Moving down in the first and picking up an extra 2nd or a 3rd and have a slight chance at nabbing Whitner with a later pick.  If he's gone, grab Tamba Hali or Greenway, or Lawson all three of which could step in and help this team right away.  In doing so you acquire an extra pick AND you save a ton of money.

 

The way TD turned the 13 overall pick into Nate Clements and Travis Henry is a perfect illustration of this concept.

679892[/snapback]

 

I'm convinced that Whinter would be gone after trading down. You can NOT be sure Whitner would be available several picks later and need to realize that Marv & Co didn't want to risk losing the player they like.

 

DE and LE are not the most important needs (S, OT, DT) of our team. If Marv has done this, you all would have criticised his decision the way you criticise Whitner. You may also include "quantity over quality??", "ignore team's need", and "waste a 1st round on a possible backup" in your statements.

 

In short, no matter what Marv did, it wouldn't satisfy all the fans. Some fans will always find things to criticise and believe they know more football than NFL GMs, coaches, and scouts.

[Dan Gross]

So an unnamed source told you the man on the radio said the Ravens were going to take Whitner, so it is fact. The man on the TV said the Whitner pick was a reach and that is BS.....Cool, I think I get it now.....or maybe not.

679893[/snapback]

 

Or you could take Whitner's word for it.

[Fla Bills Fan]

Right now, I don't know if Whitner can carry Polamalu's jock, let alone be as good as Polamalu.

 

Ignoring that, Whitner isn't going to be playing in the Steelers 3-4 system anyway.  So the comparison is moot.  They keep telling us they are going to be playing the Bucs defense.  Quick, off the top of your head, who is the last top 10 drafted, Hall-of-Fame career, SS that's played in the Bucs cover-2?

679752[/snapback]

I don't remember the round John Lynch was drafted in, But if it wasn't in the top ten he deserved to be. I will be more than happy if Whitner is anywhere near as good as Lynch - who my very well make the HOF.

[ax4782]

If the Ravens were going to take him, then who do the Bills take at 15? Hmm? Bunkley and Ngata, the "Fan Favorites" and Lienart the "glamour" pick WERE GONE!!! The player we wanted would have been gone to the Ravens. Who would you take? No one has been able to answer this. I actually watched college football games this season, and because Ohio State is on TV so much, I had a chance to actually WATCH Whitner play against some of the best football programs in the country: i.e. Michigan, Penn State, and this year Texas and Notre Dame. The kid is an amazing talent and he out played Michael Huff in the game against Texas. He's a better hitter and has just as good coverage skills as any corner that played this year.

 

And on McCargo, the Giants wanted a DT at 32, not a DE. The only reason they drafted Kiwanuka was because they couldn't get another DT who was even close to being worth a first or even second round pick, and Kiwanuka was the last DL worth a first round grade. They would have taken McCargo and we would have been stuck. I can't even imagine the hate that would have been thrown at Marv if we hadn't drafted a DT at all. The whiners would really be crowing then. Give these players and the front office the benefit of the doubt for now. They know a heck of a lot more about what they're doing than we do. And do try to keep in mind that if Marv was so terrible at drafting talent, someone explain why he was the last winning coach who was able to draft well enough to get us to Four Super Bowls.

[JDG]

In that sense, could there have been ANY scenario that would have led you to suspect that the Bills used too many resources on the secondary?

679916[/snapback]

 

The Bills taking Kelly Jennings instead of John McCargo.

 

In other words, we needed an instant starter at safety. In the 3rd round, it is perfectly reasonable to take a Nickel CB (less so in the first or second rounds), and in the 4th round it is definitely great to draft a guy who projects to being a solid starter in 1-2 years.

 

JDG

[Dawgg]

DE and LB aren't needs? What are you smoking?

 

Who plays opposite Aaron Shobel? Kelsey is good, but a strong DE like Tamba Hali would have a major impact on the Bills' pass rush and a 3-man rotation at the Defensive End position would do us a lot of good. At linebacker, we have London Fletcher entering the final year of his contract and Spikes coming off a huge injury.

 

I'm convinced that Whinter would be gone after trading down. You can NOT be sure Whitner would be available several picks later and need to realize that Marv & Co didn't want to risk losing the player they like.

 

DE and LE are not the most important needs (S, OT, DT) of our team. If Marv has done this, you all would have criticised his decision the way you criticise Whitner. You may also include "quantity over quality??", "ignore team's need", and "waste a 1st round on a possible backup" in your statements.

 

In short, no matter what Marv did, it wouldn't satisfy all the fans. Some fans will always find things to criticise and believe they know more football than NFL GMs, coaches, and scouts.

679920[/snapback]

[Dawgg]

I didn't know that Donahoe was targeting Stroud because it seemed as though they planned to go after Nate from the get-go -- but if that's true, you can look at that in two ways. TD realized that at pick 13, there wasn't anything of value so he simply moved down and acquired extra picks in the process. In that sense, I feel the scenarios were similar.

 

 

but donohoe wouldn't have traded down if he had been able to select marcus stroud, who was picked immediately before by jax. that's why he traded down - he lost the player he allegedly wanted. in any event, it's a tough choice, but if pressed i'd take stroud over clements and henry today. 

 

the bills clearly wanted whitner, so there was no need to trade down. it's not as if he's the equivalent of the OT tampa took that fans wanted the bills to draft. you really can't compare the scenarios.

679912[/snapback]

[EC-Bills]

If the Ravens were going to take him, then who do the Bills take at 15?  Hmm?  Bunkley and Ngata, the "Fan Favorites" and Lienart the "glamour" pick WERE GONE!!!  The player we wanted would have been gone to the Ravens.  Who would you take?  No one has been able to answer this.  I actually watched college football games this season, and because Ohio State is on TV so much, I had a chance to actually WATCH Whitner play against some of the best football programs in the country: i.e. Michigan, Penn State, and this year Texas and Notre Dame.  The kid is an amazing talent and he out played Michael Huff in the game against Texas.  He's a better hitter and has just as good coverage skills as any corner that played this year. 

679945[/snapback]

 

Hey wait a minute, you forgot Illinois...wait...never mind...

[syhuang]

DE and LB aren't needs?  What are you smoking?

 

Who plays opposite Aaron Shobel?  Kelsey is good, but a strong DE like Tamba Hali would have a major impact on the Bills' pass rush and a 3-man rotation at the Defensive End position would do us a lot of good. At linebacker, we have London Fletcher entering the final year of his contract and Spikes coming off a huge injury.

680024[/snapback]

 

Who said DB and LE aren't needs? Read the post again. Is it so hard to read the whole sentence?

 

"DE and LE are not the most important needs (S, OT, DT) of our team"

[jarthur31]

Let me get this straight...three years from now if he's even 90% of what Polamalu is we'll worry about whether he was the #8 or #14 pick?

679739[/snapback]

 

Is that funny how some people's logic is used to explain their rationale?