TPS Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Cheney speech 1992 This at a time when we knew he had WMDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Here is why the "BUSH FLIP FLOPS, TOO" argument hold no water at all. "YOU" have to go back YEARS to find a BUSH flip flop. To find a KERRY flip flop, "WE" have to go back HOURS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Cheney speech 1992 This at a time when we knew he had WMDs. 50824[/snapback] Interesting, because I went to a dinner in 1993 where Cheney spoke, and he said that Saddam remaining in power will bring huge destabilization to the region, and that we will have to deal with him sooner or later. Considering that in 1992 he was still head of DOD under the President who decided not to pursue Saddam further, I wouldn't rank it in the Hall of Fame of Flipflops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Here is why the "BUSH FLIP FLOPS, TOO" argument hold no water at all. "YOU" have to go back YEARS to find a BUSH flip flop. To find a KERRY flip flop, "WE" have to go back HOURS. 50862[/snapback] Years???? The Daily Show had unbelievable clips of Bush's statements while he was campaigning that completely contradict what he is saying now. You may still be able to find them on its website. Or how about these tidbits from the administration: Saddam has wmd and we know exactly where they are to oops. We will be greeted as liberators and flowers will be thrown at us to long hard slog. OBL dead or alive to I don't really think much about him etc. Mission Accomplished to quagmire We cannot win the war on terrorism which was quickly changed to we will win the war. Iraqi oil revenue will cover the costs for rebuilding Iraq to the American taxpayer is stuck with paying hundreds of billions of dollars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichFan Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Here is why the "BUSH FLIP FLOPS, TOO" argument hold no water at all. "YOU" have to go back YEARS to find a BUSH flip flop. To find a KERRY flip flop, "WE" have to go back HOURS. To add to that -- many Americans see 9/11 as a justified reason for Bush changing positions on policies such as nation-building and see the difference between what Clinton was doing in Africa and what Bush is doing in the Middle East. Many Amercians do not see taking the Democratic candidacy from Dean as a justified reason for Kerry changing his positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 It is amazing how smart Cheney used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 The whole flip flop stuff is just plain stupid to begin with. "Staying the course" is great but not if you are the skipper of the Titanic and have received warnings of icebergs ahead. "Staying the course" when disaster looms just ahead is lunacy. When it makes sense to change directions, iron resolve becomes pig headed stubborness. The relevant questions for those more interested in policy, issues and facts rather than name calling are far more complicated than this flip flop glop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry in KC Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 "Iraqi oil revenue will cover the costs for rebuilding Iraq to the American taxpayer is stuck with paying hundreds of billions of dollars" "We will be greeted as liberators and flowers will be thrown at us to long hard slog." "Mission Accomplished " Would you mind showing me quotes and dates that GWB actually said these things? Thank you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 "Iraqi oil revenue will cover the costs for rebuilding Iraq to the American taxpayer is stuck with paying hundreds of billions of dollars" "We will be greeted as liberators and flowers will be thrown at us to long hard slog." "Mission Accomplished " Would you mind showing me quotes and dates that GWB actually said these things? Thank you . 51030[/snapback] The administration said these things. The first quote is from Paul Wolfowitz's testimony before Congress. (This has been contradicted by the $200 Billion and counting that the administration has asked for so far for the Iraq venture.) The second quote is from Cheney's appearance on Meet the Press. (The long hard slog quote is from Rumsfeld's memo.) The third one is the banner that the White House arranged to have put on the USS Abraham Lincoln. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Most of the time it is. All the "flip flop" comments on Kerry's Iraq war funding vote struck me as overblown nonsense - admittedly, fostered by himself by his unforgivably stupid expression of his position. "I voted for it before I voted against it" was an egregious error in a sound-byte driven media atmosphere, but the half-dozen or so Americans who actually pay attention to issues and delved into his actual reasoning behind the vote probably see that it does represent an actual position, no matter how poorly voiced. On the other hand, sometimes the guy truly does flop around like a landed fish. I would LOVE to hear him justify his myriad positions on the Defense of Marriage Act, which he voted for at the federal level while criticizing the equivalent Massachusets bill, and called the federal bill both constitutional and unconstitutional while stating that the states aren't bound by the federal law he voted for... Really, I can accept "I voted for it before I voted against it" as bad phrasing of a coherent policy stance. But "I voted for it, even though it was unconstitutional, so the states aren't bound by it, even though it is constitutional, but the states shouldn't pass equivalent legislation on matters outside federal jurisdiction"???? How is that not "flip-flopping"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry in KC Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 The administration said these things. The first quote is from Paul Wolfowitz's testimony before Congress. (This has been contradicted by the $200 Billion and counting that the administration has asked for so far for the Iraq venture.) The second quote is from Cheney's appearance on Meet the Press. (The long hard slog quote is from Rumsfeld's memo.) The third one is the banner that the White House arranged to have put on the USS Abraham Lincoln. 51041[/snapback] Oh, so it was "the admistration" the said these things. I'm sorry, I thought I read that you said it was GWB. Buy the way, the "Mission Accomplished" banner was put up by US Navy personnel, so they must be part of the admistration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Oh, so it was "the admistration" the said these things. I'm sorry, I thought I read that you said it was GWB. Buy the way, the "Mission Accomplished" banner was put up by US Navy personnel, so they must be part of the admistration. 51054[/snapback] Read above and you will find that I specifically wrote "tidbits from the administration." I accept your apology. As for the "Mission Accomplished" banner, the White House has admitted that it arranged to have it made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry in KC Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 [You're correct, you did say tidbits from the administration. I do apologize. I was more focussed on the accusation of GWB being a "flip flopper". The "Missioned Accomplish" theme was done to congratulate the crew about their mission and major combat in Iraq ending. GWB said at the time that the war was not over and we have a long way to go. Surely you don't consider this a "flip flop". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 [You're correct, you did say tidbits from the administration. I do apologize. I was more focussed on the accusation of GWB being a "flip flopper". The "Missioned Accomplish" theme was done to congratulate the crew about their mission and major combat in Iraq ending. GWB said at the time that the war was not over and we have a long way to go. Surely you don't consider this a "flip flop". 51080[/snapback] What bothered me more about the whole thing was keeping the ship 20 miles off the coast of California so that GWB could make his grand entrance in his flight suit. As for the "Mission Accomplished" banner, Karl Rove has stated that he wished that they had not used that language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry in KC Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 What bothered me more about the whole thing was keeping the ship 20 miles off the coast of California so that GWB could make his grand entrance in his flight suit. As for the "Mission Accomplished" banner, Karl Rove has stated that he wished that they had not used that language. 51087[/snapback] Points well taken, but hardly a "flip flop, wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Points well taken, but hardly a "flip flop, wouldn't you agree? 51104[/snapback] You might be right depending on how you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Neither Bush or Cheney is a "flip-flopper", so get off it will you? They have both been consistant, and focused in their ignorance and dishonesty...that has to count for something, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 [You're correct, you did say tidbits from the administration. I do apologize. I was more focussed on the accusation of GWB being a "flip flopper". The "Missioned Accomplish" theme was done to congratulate the crew about their mission and major combat in Iraq ending. GWB said at the time that the war was not over and we have a long way to go. Surely you don't consider this a "flip flop". 51080[/snapback] By all rights, I should delete this. An apology has absolutely no place on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry in KC Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Sorry. Won't happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 As an Oompa-loomp-American, I say " I was orange before I wasn't orange". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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