Grade of D

[Pass the Pipe]

After watching this weekend’s action, the Pipe gives the Levy Administration a solid grade of D. The potential for a very big weekend was lost by what appears to be inexperience and a surprising lack of football knowledge that big men in the trenches set the foundation of a football team. Levy was in a perfect situation to trade down and pick-up a potential combination of Brodrick Bunkley/Winston Justice and either a Jimmy Williams or Chad Jackson Jr. for good measure, but instead settled for a solid prospect in Donte Whitner, overpaid at the 8th slot and a safety none the less, and took a complete crap shoot in McCargo. I don’t put much faith in Modrak’s charts since he has overseen college recruiting for 6 seasons now, and outside of some free agent pick-ups and Terrance McGee, his body of work has been dubious. No wonder we haven’t been in the playoffs since 1999. After seeing some of the monster hauls at places like NYJ and New England, it is amazing that Ralph Wilson just can’t get his sh-- together and hire competent managers.

 

Watching Levy stumble and bumble through the weekend, it begs the question was his overly conservative decision making front and center in the head coach interviewing process? Because what I see here is a gross propensity to select “stay at home” conservative types, which is ok in moderation, but will prohibit the organization from reaching its ultimately goal. Remember True Believers you make love to your wife, but get laid by your girlfriend! If I recall correctly, Bruce Smith, Jim Kelly, C. Bennett, and Thurman Thomas weren’t exactly choir boys.

[Dawgg]

Most definitely a botched draft by Levy.

 

Trading down was clearly the right move. Partially as a result of the extreme ineptitude in the Bills' front office, teams like the Eagles, who selected AFTER the Bills, came out better on the first day. Just take a look at the top 2 picks:

 

Bunkley and Justice: both can step right in and start for the Eagles in the trenches, where the games are won.

 

Whitner and McCargo: Donte can start but McCargo is a project at best. And the best part? The organization will be paying A LOT more for them than the Eagles are for their picks.

 

Guess that explains why we pick early in the draft

 

After watching this weekend’s action, the Pipe gives the Levy Administration a solid grade of D. The potential for a very big weekend was lost by what appears to be inexperience and a surprising lack of football knowledge that big men in the trenches set the foundation of a football team. Levy was in a perfect situation to trade down and pick-up a potential combination of Brodrick Bunkley/Winston Justice and either a Jimmy Williams or Chad Jackson Jr. for good measure, but instead settled for a solid prospect in Donte Whitner, overpaid at the 8th slot and a safety none the less, and took a complete crap shoot in McCargo. I don’t put much faith in Modrak’s charts since he has overseen college recruiting for 6 seasons now, and outside of some free agent pick-ups and Terrance McGee, his body of work has been dubious. No wonder we haven’t been in the playoffs since 1999. After seeing some of the monster hauls at places like NYJ  and New England, it is amazing that Ralph Wilson just can’t get his sh-- together and hire competent managers.

 

Watching Levy stumble and bumble through the weekend, it begs the question was his overly conservative decision making front and center in the head coach interviewing process? Because what I see here is a gross propensity to select “stay at home” conservative types, which is ok in moderation, but will prohibit the organization from reaching its ultimately goal. Remember True Believers you make love to your wife, but get laid by your girlfriend! If I recall correctly, Bruce Smith, Jim Kelly, C. Bennett, and Thurman Thomas weren’t exactly choir boys.

679229[/snapback]

[Pass the Pipe]

Most definitely a botched draft by Levy.

 

Trading down was clearly the right  move.  Partially as a result of the extreme ineptitude in the Bills' front office, teams like the Eagles, who selected AFTER the Bills, came out better on the first day.  Just take a look at the top 2 picks:

 

Bunkley and Justice: both can step right in and start for the Eagles in the trenches, where the games are won.

 

Whitner and McCargo: Donte can start but McCargo is a project at best.  And the best part?  The organization will be paying A LOT more for them than the Eagles are for their picks.

 

Guess that explains why we pick early in the draft

679231[/snapback]

 

Exactly, Philadelphia's selections are what blew it for me regarding Levy's work this weekend. Both men are big physical players that set the table for everyone else.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

Why would Justice Start right away when the eagles have tra thomas and john runyan? for the record I wanted Bunkley but I'm plenty happy with McCargo. he wouldn't have made it past the colts or the giants. We made a slight reach with Whitner but you really dont know where he would've gone I've seen him projected pretty high in some mock drafts.

 

To say clearly trading down is the right move is nonsense. It's not as easy as going "OK I'll trade down" "Ok lets trade up" maybe the bills didnt like what was being offered to them, but go on obviousily cause we didn't draft who espn liked our draft sucked even before we get to see them play, cause we would've been better off with an extra 3rd or whatever and missing out on guys who can fill huge holes on our defense cause draft picks= shiny things

[shibuya]

I disagree completely. Our draft pretty much assures us we won't have too much trouble replacing Vincent and Clements next season, while also improving us this year in depth.

 

It allows us to keep Clements this season, and he'll still be playing for his big payday, which means we can still franchise him next year and trade him just the same.

 

 

We also drafted 2 DT's and I don't see a big difference between Bunkley and McCargo. Nagata is a slow ass slug who will be forgotten IMO. Moving up and grabbing a solid DT was agood move.

 

We have a slew of new OL candidates as well. All we have to do is see if Marv's day 2 drafting can be better then TD's craptastic record of day 2 picks.

[Pyrite Gal]

Most definitely a botched draft by Levy.

 

Trading down was clearly the right  move.  Partially as a result of the extreme ineptitude in the Bills' front office, teams like the Eagles, who selected AFTER the Bills, came out better on the first day.  Just take a look at the top 2 picks:

 

Bunkley and Justice: both can step right in and start for the Eagles in the trenches, where the games are won.

 

Whitner and McCargo: Donte can start but McCargo is a project at best.  And the best part?  The organization will be paying A LOT more for them than the Eagles are for their picks.

 

Guess that explains why we pick early in the draft

679231[/snapback]

 

It was a tough draft which did not go our way as best as I can tell from what happened, but actually it appears the Bills had a specific plan and got the players they ranked highest on their board.

 

It could be that the explanation which has these moves make sense is simply me trying to find a logical explanation for an Alzheimeresqye plan. However, my sense of the logic surrounding their actions which seemed quite odd with a first superficial glance would mean that the have conjured up an explanation which just happens to conform to what they hinted at before the draft, explains the seemingly bizarre acts in the draft and then got all the bodies at OBD to say the same general things which are consistent with their cover stury.

 

What seems far more likely to me than all this happenstance and then coordination by a bunch of bufoons is that this is really how it went down.

 

1. Like other NFL teams there was a lot of disinformation being enitted by OBD prior to the draft. In retrospect with the reality of Bills actions in the draf to check against these words, rather than being ham ganded and reflectind Marv and the crew stumbling through this, their disinformation was there but never som ham-handed as a clear case can be made of them simply flatout lying to their customers or publicly to other teams.

 

One facoid which Marv offered just prior to the draft which fits the facts of their interest was that they were most interested in a player who was actually probably pretty late in the draft on other boards.

 

The fan consesus at the time was that this meant Winston Justice. As it turned out this a good description of Whitmer.

 

2. I think the Bills stretched in drafting Whitmer at #8 when most boards had him going about #18. However, if this is who Marv was referring to prior to the draft he was well aware and correct as to assessing Whitmer;s draft position.

 

However, the wild card no one expected on draft day was that OAK took Huff at #7. This to me was the killer for us and why the Bills stretched to take Whitmer at #8. There had been talk of Detriot at #9 wanting Huff. If the Bills accepted am offer from a team like Philly or the Rams to trade down to 14 or 15, though this was still above the #18 slot where Whitmer was exoected to go, if Detroit took Whitmer as the best safety available they would lose him.

 

Rather than risk trading down because apparently Whitmer and Huff were the only two safeties they were sure of stepping in for Milloy immedistely they stretched and picked him early.

 

My guess is this was a smart move becaise as it turned out Miami took a safery Allen at #16 prior to the #18 prediction for Whitmer 3 safeties were taken even though some questioned whether a safety merited a 1st round choice at all.

 

Afterwards, the Bills seemed not only pleased to get the guy they wanted (teams fake pleasure about their choice all the time( but uniformly they seem to know lots about him and folks like Jauron had clearly thought about how to use him.

 

It was clearly a draft stretch to take Whitmer at 8 but seemed to be a good team building move to get the guy they wanted when if they had traded down they probably would have lost him to Detroit, maybe to Cleveland if he was still around or even to the hated fish if they went to #18 where the draft pundits said they should go.

 

I actually have enough doubts abou the recovery from injury of the third safety taken Allen that I am glad we have Whitmer rather than Allen.

 

2. The trade up for Mccargo raised even more eyebrows. Again though having taken the second safety they passed on both Ngata and Bunkley. McCargo was ranked a 2nd rounder on many boards, but the key for the Bills who cleary were drafting for need as they are committed to winning now while Ralph is alive rather than embarking on another 3 year plan was to make sure they got the at least the third best DT.

 

I do not know where they had Bunkley and Ngata, but straght character issues has been raised about Bunkley and inconsistency and going on vacation on the field issues had been raised about Ngata. While it seemed reasonable to me that the Bills might dismiss these concerns upon interviewing either player, they also could embrace these concerns after meeting them as well.

 

it is conceivable that McCargo was already first DT on their board. They certainly had no need to take him at #8, so a plan to trade down for a choice in the early 10d, let Detroit or whomever take Huff and then use the resources gained from trading down to pick mcCargo early in the second or late in the first using the new resources gained from trading down made sense.

 

However, OAK surprisingly took Huff, the Bills were forced to stretch and take Whitmer at 8 or risk losing him and the new crisis was how do they assure getting the third best DT (maybe #1 DT on their board). They did this by throwing in their second 3rd rounder with their 2nd and moving up into the first and getting McCargo.

 

The end product was that the Bills likely got both the SS they had first on their board and the DT they had first on their board to fill their two big needs.

 

The downside of all this is that they gave away resources which might have been used to reinforce the OL by drafting the plummeting Justice who went to phillu in the 2nd. Given the character issues surrounding Justice and the Iggles track record of choosing idiots like TO I'm not so sure about being enamored with their draft.

 

The interesting this though is the Bills last first day pick. On the board when they chose were both Eric Winston who slipped to the top of the fourth round and the F Spencer who also slipped to the top of the 4th. Both had been talked about as first day choices.

 

Instead the Bills passed on these two an made a BAP choice for Yobouty in the third round.

 

He also had been talked about as a potential 1st rounder who slipped down. Though CB is not a need for us as NC got tagged and McGee extended, and we have a competiton between rookie King and Greer for the nickel, by getting Yobouty we legitimately increase the competition at nickel and also increase even further the leverage we have on NC from tagging him.

 

The OL reamins an issue (quite frankly one I do not see being solved by second day draft picks this year anyway (but I actually think a far more llikely opyion for ssolving this is to sign a couple of vets as back-ups to the 5 mran we seem firm on starting.

 

After the failure of draft choices like MW, Jennings, Pacillo and Sullivan i think we are better off getting vets anyway.

 

At any rate it appears more likely to me that the Bills braintrust actually showed good focus and discipline sticking to the plan and getting the two players they likely (wrongly or not( had ranked 1st on their board at SS and DT.

 

Rather than stumbling they kept their eye on the prize that the key here was not to win the drafting sweepstakes by having Mort of Kiper say you got the guys you wanted for good draft value but instead to make sure you got the guys you wanted.

 

If in fact Whitner and NcCargo were first DT and SS on their boards then as George Bush would say Mission Accomplished.

[Bill from NYC]

I disagree completely. Our draft pretty much assures us we won't have too much trouble replacing Vincent and Clements next season, while also improving us this year in depth.

 

It allows us to keep Clements  this season, and he'll still be playing for his big payday, which means we can still franchise him next year and trade him just the same.

We also drafted 2 DT's and I don't see a big difference between Bunkley and McCargo. Nagata is a slow ass slug who will be forgotten IMO. Moving up and grabbing a solid DT was agood move.

 

We have a slew of new OL candidates as well. All we have to do is see if Marv's day 2 drafting can be better then TD's craptastic record of day 2 picks.

679244[/snapback]

 

The only thing this draft almost assures us is that Ralph will let one of the best cbs in the league walk in 07 and replace him with a 3rd round pick. The Bills have drafted corners early and let them walk as far back as Thomas Smith. This is not new.

 

As for the "slew" of new candidates at OL, they are once again from the trash bin. This too is not new.

 

I wish I could snap my fingers and make believe that this draft doesn't suck because as fans, there is nothing we can do about it. It is abundantly clear that Levy and Wilson don't have the wherewithal to run a football team in the modern NFL.

 

TD was great at drafting players until he came to the Bills. Idiocy such as this draft does make one wonder who was truly at fault.

[nodnarb]

Pass the pipe, all right. There is nothing to this post that I didn't hear on ESPN. Do we really need more regurgitated opinion?

 

After watching this weekend’s action, the Pipe gives the Levy Administration a solid grade of D. The potential for a very big weekend was lost by what appears to be inexperience and a surprising lack of football knowledge that big men in the trenches set the foundation of a football team. Levy was in a perfect situation to trade down and pick-up a potential combination of Brodrick Bunkley/Winston Justice and either a Jimmy Williams or Chad Jackson Jr. for good measure, but instead settled for a solid prospect in Donte Whitner, overpaid at the 8th slot and a safety none the less, and took a complete crap shoot in McCargo. I don’t put much faith in Modrak’s charts since he has overseen college recruiting for 6 seasons now, and outside of some free agent pick-ups and Terrance McGee, his body of work has been dubious. No wonder we haven’t been in the playoffs since 1999. After seeing some of the monster hauls at places like NYJ  and New England, it is amazing that Ralph Wilson just can’t get his sh-- together and hire competent managers.

 

Watching Levy stumble and bumble through the weekend, it begs the question was his overly conservative decision making front and center in the head coach interviewing process? Because what I see here is a gross propensity to select “stay at home” conservative types, which is ok in moderation, but will prohibit the organization from reaching its ultimately goal. Remember True Believers you make love to your wife, but get laid by your girlfriend! If I recall correctly, Bruce Smith, Jim Kelly, C. Bennett, and Thurman Thomas weren’t exactly choir boys.

679229[/snapback]

[H2o]

Personally, I couldn't believe my eyes and ears on Saturday and Sunday. I was shocked by the decisions made. In all reality, they could have traded down atleast 3 or 4 spots and got Whitner. He is a good player, but they could've gotten more out of the deal for sure. Second, trade away a second and a third for John McCargo? That made absolutely NO sense. They could've had him easily with their second round pick which was 16 spots away. So right there, between those two selections they not only didn't grab more picks, they simply handed away a 3rd round pick to the Bears. They didn't even get a decent OT in the draft either. They could've had one if they didn't give away the 3rd round pick. Eric Winston didn't even come off of the board until the beginning of the fourth to the Texans. I was completely disgusted with the way they handled the first three rounds almost completely. I do believe that it might pan out to where we got 2 steals in the draft though with Ashton Youboty and Ko Simpson. Combine them two with the too highly drafted Whitner, hopefully a long term extension with Nate Clements, and we could possibly be looking at a solid secondary for the next 5 to 7 years. But the way they went about this whole ordeal was stupid. We could've had an additional first and second or first and third rounder by trading down plus wouldn't have had to give away any picks at all. I think that Tom Donahoe could've seen that. Then, the outside linebacker they picked up in the 5th or 6th round runs a 4.83 40 yard dash. C'mon now, a 4.83 40 at linebacker and you're going to draft him? Ahhhhhhh man You know what I'm looking forward to hearing? Next year when Tagliabue or whoever says, "With the #1 pick in the draft the Buffalo Bills select..................Brady Quinn from the University of Notre Dame." And the crowd goes wild!!!!!!!!!

[BillsFanInTexas]

If in fact Whitner and NcCargo were first DT and SS on their boards then as George Bush would say Mission Accomplished.

679253[/snapback]

 

I just hope that we don't have to wait 3 years after to see that the mission was not accomplished...

 

 

For those who don't know, today is the 3 year anniversary of the speech on the ship where the "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner was flown.

[1billsfan]

After watching this weekend’s action, the Pipe gives the Levy Administration a solid grade of D. The potential for a very big weekend was lost by what appears to be inexperience and a surprising lack of football knowledge that big men in the trenches set the foundation of a football team. Levy was in a perfect situation to trade down and pick-up a potential combination of Brodrick Bunkley/Winston Justice and either a Jimmy Williams or Chad Jackson Jr. for good measure, but instead settled for a solid prospect in Donte Whitner, overpaid at the 8th slot and a safety none the less, and took a complete crap shoot in McCargo. I don’t put much faith in Modrak’s charts since he has overseen college recruiting for 6 seasons now, and outside of some free agent pick-ups and Terrance McGee, his body of work has been dubious. No wonder we haven’t been in the playoffs since 1999. After seeing some of the monster hauls at places like NYJ  and New England, it is amazing that Ralph Wilson just can’t get his sh-- together and hire competent managers.

 

Watching Levy stumble and bumble through the weekend, it begs the question was his overly conservative decision making front and center in the head coach interviewing process? Because what I see here is a gross propensity to select “stay at home” conservative types, which is ok in moderation, but will prohibit the organization from reaching its ultimately goal. Remember True Believers you make love to your wife, but get laid by your girlfriend! If I recall correctly, Bruce Smith, Jim Kelly, C. Bennett, and Thurman Thomas weren’t exactly choir boys.

679229[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

I give your post a solid F. This team is moving on from the slacker unmotivated bad character types and replacing them with guys who will run through walls on every down. It's been working for the Patriots for a long time now. You know who the Pats are, right? They're the team that's been kicking our sorry lazy asses for years now. Give it a rest and try to enjoy watching players who actually try on every down.

[Pass the Pipe]

Pass the pipe, all right. There is nothing to this post that I didn't hear on ESPN. Do we really need more regurgitated opinion?

679302[/snapback]

 

In all honesty, didn't watch a second of coverage this weekend. I just don't understand how the defensive and offensive lines were not first priorities. Deon Sanders is not going to prevent completions if a quarterback can go through 3 or 4 different reads everytime he steps back to pass or when the running game gashes you for 5 or 6 per carry. Outside of Peters and Schobel, our quality is quite low. Any guy that puts up 43 reps and plays at a high level at Florida State makes sense to me. Again, just see what Andy Ried did from the 14 or 15th spot and you will know why the Eagles have been competitive for a very long time.

[Dawgg]

This hits the nail on the head and is exactly why this was a botched draft. When you are in rebuilding mode, you simply cannot get too enamored with one player. You need to be flexible and be ready for the unexpected so that you can utilize the draft to improve the OVERALL team as much as possible. This is not what the Bills did. They had no contingency plan.

 

In another post, Stiffler made a great point -- had the Bills traded down to say 15, they could have aquired another 3rd round pick, maybe a 4th as well. Let's hypothetically say that Whitner ends up being taken at 9 after the Bills trade down (which I find HIGHLY unlikely)

 

As pointed out in a previous thread, who would you rather have:

a) Whitner OR b) Greenway/Carpenter/Hill + 3rd rounder + (likely) 4th rounder

 

Most definitely, the latter, especially for a team with porous holes in its roster. To say that the front office was focused and stuck to their guns is a copout, IMO. Bottom line, they did not maximize the value of this draft with the idea of improving the team as much as possible. Rather, they were stubborn and pigionholed themselves, missing out on the opportunity to significantly improve the team.

 

 

If the Bills accepted am offer from a team like Philly or the Rams to trade down to 14 or 15, though this was still above the #18 slot where Whitmer was exoected to go, if Detroit took Whitmer as the best safety available they would lose him.

679253[/snapback]

[Pass the Pipe]

I give your post a solid F. This team is moving on from the slacker unmotivated bad character types and replacing them with guys who will run through walls on every down. It's been working for the Patriots for a long time now. You know who the Pats are, right? They're the team that's been kicking our sorry lazy asses for years now. Give it a rest and try to enjoy watching players who actually try on every down.

679386[/snapback]

 

 

The Tim Anderson's of the world, to whom the middle round guy from LSU was compared to, couldn't run through a paper bag and I would lump in guys like FAs Royales and Bowen into that category as well. When the Super Bowl champs can come away with the best receiver in the draft and followed by NE getting a guy who ran a 4.29 and has produced in two different systems and we end up with McCargo, you have answered your own question about why we get are "lazy" asses kicked.

[Pass the Pipe]

This hits the nail on the head and is exactly why this was a botched draft.  When you are in rebuilding mode, you simply cannot get too enamored with one player.  You need to be flexible and be ready for the unexpected so that you can utilize the draft to improve the OVERALL team as much as possible.  This is not what the Bills did.  They had no contingency plan. 

 

In another post, Stiffler made a great point -- had the Bills traded down to say 15, they could have aquired another 3rd round pick, maybe a 4th as well.  Let's hypothetically say that Whitner ends up being taken at 9 after the Bills trade down (which I find HIGHLY unlikely)

 

As pointed out in a previous thread, who would you rather have:

a) Whitner OR b) Greenway/Carpenter/Hill + 3rd rounder + (likely) 4th rounder

 

Most definitely, the latter, especially for a team with porous holes in its roster.  To say that the front office was focused and stuck to their guns is a copout, IMO.  Bottom line, they did not maximize the value of this draft with the idea of improving the team as much as possible.  Rather, they were stubborn and pigionholed themselves, missing out on the opportunity to significantly improve the team.

679401[/snapback]

 

Your thinking here is exactly right. This illustrates the whole problem with this weekend's activities.

[1billsfan]

The Tim Anderson's of the world, to whom the middle round guy from LSU was compared to, couldn't run through a paper bag and I would lump in guys like FAs Royales and Bowen into that category as well. When the Super Bowl champs can come away with the best receiver in the draft and followed by NE getting a guy who ran a 4.29 and has produced in two different systems and we end up with McCargo, you have answered your own question about why we get are "lazy" asses kicked.

679410[/snapback]

 

The receivers in this draft sucked plain and simply. Neither of those players will be able to replace the production of Randle El or David Givens.

 

You seem to be enamered by 40 times and reps. Sorry, but the Bills were looking for football players not workout warriors.

[Bill from NYC]

This team is moving on from the slacker unmotivated bad character types and replacing them with guys who will run through walls on every down. It's been working for the Patriots for a long time now. You know who the Pats are, right? They're the team that's been kicking our sorry lazy asses for years now. Give it a rest and try to enjoy watching players who actually try on every down.

679386[/snapback]

 

I hated this draft, but your post raises a good point. I am impressed by the fact that Marv DID get rid of seemingly unmotivated players who held no stake in the long term interest of our beloved Bills.

 

My issue is that they are building from the wrong direction. Didn't Jauron himself admit that this was not his preference?

[WhitnerIsAGod]

I give your post a solid F. This team is moving on from the slacker unmotivated bad character types and replacing them with guys who will run through walls on every down. It's been working for the Patriots for a long time now. You know who the Pats are, right? They're the team that's been kicking our sorry lazy asses for years now. Give it a rest and try to enjoy watching players who actually try on every down.

679386[/snapback]

 

Before we get too carried away comparing the Bills to the Patriots, you should consider that the Patriots have been able to field a functional defensive secondary manned by WRs and street free agents at times. Why? Because they have great coaching and their pass rush is able to keep an offense honest.

 

The Bills did nothing to improve their pass rush.

 

And have done very little to improve one of the worst offensive lines in the league.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Headlines in San Diego a few years back. "A+ draft, especially with the first pick, Ryan Leaf."

[obie_wan]

I hated this draft, but your post raises a good point. I am impressed by the fact that Marv DID get rid of seemingly unmotivated players who held no stake in the long term interest of our beloved Bills.

 

My issue is that they are building from the wrong direction. Didn't Jauron himself admit that this was not his preference?

679457[/snapback]

 

sure - as he stated his prefernce was to draft Brick or Mario Williams

 

too bad he had to deal with reality in what was available.

 

BAsed on production and before the hype kicked in, both Bunkley and Ngata carried late to mid 1st round grades. They rose up the board because there was nothing better. McCargo had a lower grade because he missed 5 games with injury. Wither would have made the "experts" happy but I doubt either outperforms McCargo.