Who would you have chosen with picks instead

[Pyrite Gal]

I think on of the big difference between the Bills braintrust and fans whining about these choices is that they have different goals for when they hope/expect to win.

 

Many fans who do not have to worry about this as a business where the team must put butts in the seat every year and where worst to first is possible like never before as athletes leave their teams all the time do not seem to have the same commitment to the future being now like the Bills braintrust seems to.

 

While many fans seemed quite happy to simply try to get the Best Player Available and build for the future even if it meant leaving an immediate need unmet, it seems pretty clear that Marv is sticking to his spoken promise to win now.

 

We saw this in:

 

1, Despite it being likely it will take the Bills a while to rebuid and making a BAP approach make a lot of sense for this team, they instead showed a firm bias toward instead adopting a need strategy which focused like a lasar beam in getting ab SS and a DT where this team had no one on the current roster to fill these needs.

 

2. The need approach in fact was dominant, Marv broke away from his old habit of not trading on draft day to trade up. However, he traded up to seemingly reach for McCargo in the first to fill a need rather than trading up to try to get a BAP like Davis or Hawk who clearly were great players but did not fill out needs as we have contract commitment at LB this year and hipes at least at TE on the roster.

 

So taking this assumption as a given that the team approach is one of the future is now for at least playing .500 and hoping for the playoffs rather than building for the future (if you want to argue this point feel free but one should acknowledge this is not the Bills braintrust approach as they stretched to pick Whitmer early for fear he would be gone and then realy stetched to take Mccargo in the 1st).

 

Thw kwy question is who would you have taken instead.

 

Its hard for me to see how some of the options folks have talked about are actually probably worse than what we got.

 

So whine away if you want folks, but the real fans should at least be able to suggest a different approach though it will get woulda/coulda/shoulda pretty quickly as it would have been nice togo for D'Brick but he was long gone by the time #8 came around and it simply does not appear possible.

 

I was disappointed yesterday as well, but it seems hard for me to see much alternative for us rather than stretching for Whitmer after OAH chose Huff at #7 and Whitmer might go as quick as #9 where Detroit had been talking Huff or in the mid-1st rather than 18 where many ore-draft boards had him.

 

Likewise, we have a huge need on the current roster at DT and the word among many pundits is that McCargo was creeping up boards and might not be there when our second pick came around. Even worse, no other DT was even taken in the 2nd so with Bunkley and Ngota wrong, if we though McCargo was the thrid best DT at this position of desperate need for us, that is why we traded up to be sure we got him.

 

Things broke badly for us so reach we definitely did, but i see few other reasonable alternatives being suggested while folks bleat this is a disaster.

[ax4782]

I think the last post was right. There is a lot of whining and complaining, but what else could the Bills have done. Clearly they had multiple needs and they addressed them, just not with the "glamour" picks people wanted. Ngata played well, but not superbly against equivalent or better competition in the PAC-10. I went to NC State and watched both Bunkley and McCargo in games where they played against each other. If you look at their statistics they are not that far apart, and McCargo is versatile. He played nose, end and three which is what the Bills need: help all across the line. He can play where they need him. He would have been gone, and the Bills had a glaring need there, which they filled. Whitner is an excellent prospect and we have a need at both strong and free safety, where he can step in. With Clements probably not playing in Buffalo for much longer, and the need for coverage guys in the new scheme, the picks today were good news. Lineman can be picked in the mid and late rounds and still be performers. Preston was a third round pick in '05 and he played big role. Don't be surprised if Derek Morris from NC State is picked in the fifth or sixth round by the Bills tomorrow. Instead of going glamour, Levy picked smart. For that he should be commended.

[jarthur31]

I don't get how our "experts" decry passing up Ngata. These were the same idiots bashing on Sam Adams for taking plays off! Idiots.

[cantankerous]

Great thread pyrite gal, i'm sick and tired of these kitty ass fans critisizing every move the front office makes while armchair quarterbacking thinking they know more than people whose job it is to study and evaluate the talent available. I think we did quite well, who cares if we gave up a pick to move up? We still have 6 more picks tomorrow so I think we'll be able to get what we need...we filled our needs on day one...which was DEFENSE! We needed a corner, safety and defensive tackle and that's what we got...complainers should shut up cause that's exactly what we got!

[obie_wan]

Whitner would have gone to Detroit at #9 or Rams at #11, both before the #14 or #15 spots available in alleged trade downs.

 

Bunkley, Ngata and Whitner would all have been gone after the trade down.

 

Justice was there, but obviously no team had him rated as a 1st rounder.

 

Fans would have been happy but in reality that would have been a horrible value pick.

 

 

So who should the bills have selected after a trade down?

[Marshmallow]

I actually thought our draft was going to look a lot like Philly's. I think we could have easily had...

 

Brodrick Bunkly

Winston Justice

 

and still got Youbody in the 3rd.

 

Just doesn't make sense to me. But I'm no "Expert." Hope Marv knows what he's doing.

 

G

[N.Y. Orangeman]

I actually thought our draft was going to look  a lot like Philly's.  I think we could have easily had...

 

Brodrick Bunkly

Winston Justice

 

and still got Youbody in the 3rd.

 

Just doesn't make sense to me. But I'm no "Expert." Hope Marv knows what he's doing.

 

G

677575[/snapback]

 

 

Guess you aren't a "real" fan.

[silvermike]

I wonder - what if we had traded down to get Whitner in the first (netting a third), traded our 2nd and a 3rd to get to the top of the 2nd for McCargo, then the other two thirds to move back into the 2nd to get Youboty, would anyone at all be complaining?

[Alaska Darin]

Ask me in five years, I'll be absolutely certain then.

[Ozymandius]

I don't have a big problem with the picks, per se. I would've traded down in the first round and not traded up in the second round, and that would've changed everything.

 

But if you want to do a direct comparison at the slots the Bills ended up, then my picks are going to be weird.

 

I probably go ahead and take Davin Joseph at #8 overall. Hell, why not. I think he's going to be a great guard and I like him better than all of the other guys picked after Whitner.

 

At #26, give me Nick Mangold.

 

At #70, give me DT Jonathan Lewis.

 

Hell, I'll go on record with these picks. Let's compare my draft to Marv's draft in three years.

[JDG]

Here's what I would have done:

 

#8 - Matt Leinart (I have him rated as a Top 3 player, just too good to pass up. Of course, this would be contingent on determining that he would be excited about playing in Buffalo.)

#26 - John McCargo (At least one major mock draft had him going in exactly this spot, so I don't buy the "reach" argument, and he fills our most glaringly obvious need. I suspect that the Bills may even have had him rated ahead of Bunkley and Ngata. Thus, I agree with the trade.)

#70 - Leonard Pope (It seems like we've been looking for a pass-catching TE for forever. Everett looks like he can't stay healthy, and Euhus hasn't shown me anything yet.)

[syhuang]

I probably go ahead and take Davin Joseph at #8 overall.  Hell, why not.  I think he's going to be a great guard and I like him better than all of the other guys picked after Whitner.

677631[/snapback]

 

If Marv had drafted Davin Joseph at #8, many board 'experts' would have asked for his head or simply killed themselves. Their mock drafts didn't say so!!!

[obie_wan]

Here's what I would have done:

 

#8 - Matt Leinart (I have him rated as a Top 3 player, just too good to pass up.  Of course, this would be contingent on determining that he would be excited about playing in Buffalo.)

#26 - John McCargo (At least one major mock draft had him going in exactly this spot, so I don't buy the "reach" argument, and he fills our most glaringly obvious need.  I suspect that the Bills may even have had him rated ahead of Bunkley and Ngata.  Thus, I agree with the trade.)

#70 - Leonard Pope (It seems like we've been looking for a pass-catching TE for forever.  Everett looks like he can't stay healthy, and Euhus hasn't shown me anything yet.)

677661[/snapback]

 

If you wanted a QB that high, take Cutler.

 

Leinart is soft and can't throw in the wind due because he doesn't throw a tight spiral.

 

Leinart is the left handed reincarnation of Rob Johnson.

[Spiderweb]

Ask me in five years, I'll be absolutely certain then.

677608[/snapback]

 

And that my friends will be the only way to accurately gauge this years draft., as it always has been, and always will be, although I would shorten the period to 3 years.

 

Now that my "beer' haze and initial disappointed has faded, I will do the only thing we can and that is to give these picks a chance. I really wish we would have added more quality to our lines, FA & draft, but alas.....

 

Had we managed to land Reggie Wells, I'd feel better about our O-line. Reyes, Gibson, Fowler? None of those guys strike fear into anyone's hearts. Even the much heralded McNally has yet to take a turd and make him serviceable. The only developing O-line guy we have is Peters to date, and we've not been able to get a contract extension with him so far. The rest....?

[Buftex]

I like the players we got, but I am still trying to figure out why we had to lose a third round pick to get them...according to Chris Moretnson (I know he sucks, he is ESPN, we hate him, blah, blah, blah- we are not "true fans" if we wonder what the fug the Bills are doing) a number of NFL personal guys he spoke with were "shocked" by the Bills pick of McCargo in the first round, and he specified, it "wasn't just us here", meaning the ESPN analysts. I also heard Dick Coury on FOX Sports Radio say essentilally the same thing.

 

If the Bills overvalued McCargo that much, you would have to think they could have likely traded up a few spots in the second round, and given up less, and still got McCargo....

 

As for Mel Kiper, I think a lot of you are "hyperactive pussies" about his commentary. The guy is not always right, and doesn't claim to be. If you listened to his analysis of the Bills first day draft he clearly said, he didn't think picking up Whitner with the #8 was a terrible move, because the Bills anticipated that safetys were going to start flying off the board, and it was obviously the position that the Bills had targeted.

 

While he said that he felt they picked McCargo too high (he thinks he is closer to a third round, maybe even 4th round talent) Kiper did point out that opinions on McCargo varied greatly. He said JMc was really rising up the charts of a lot of teams (not his), and if they were right, it wouldn't look like such a stretch.

[BuffaloBilliever]

Philly's picks are what I figured we would have by now, but I am in no way shape or form disappointed with marv's picks. I would have LOVED to see Leinart in the Blue Red and White, but man, we haven't been too shabby so far.

 

New England is picking up great players, and it's really starting to piss me off...

[syhuang]

I like the players we got, but I am still trying to figure out why we had to lose a third round pick to get them...

677818[/snapback]

 

Because Marv & Co believed Whitner and McCargo wouldn't be available several picks later.

[BB2004]

I think on of the big difference between the Bills braintrust and fans whining about these choices is that they have different goals for when they hope/expect to win.

 

Many fans who do not have to worry about this as a business where the team must put butts in the seat every year and where worst to first is possible like never before as athletes leave their teams all the time do not seem to have the same commitment to the future being now like the Bills braintrust seems to.

 

While many fans seemed quite happy to simply try to get the Best Player Available and build for the future even if it meant leaving an immediate need unmet, it seems pretty clear that Marv is sticking to his spoken promise to win now.

 

We saw this in:

 

1, Despite it being likely it will take the Bills a while to rebuid and making a BAP approach make a lot of sense for this team, they instead showed a firm bias toward instead adopting a need strategy which focused like a lasar beam in getting ab SS and a DT where this team had no one on the current roster to fill these needs.

 

2.  The need approach in fact was dominant, Marv broke away from his old habit of not trading on draft day to trade up.  However, he traded up to seemingly reach for McCargo in the first to fill a need rather than trading up to try to get a BAP like Davis or Hawk who clearly were great players but did not fill out needs as we have contract commitment at LB this year and hipes at least at TE on the roster.

 

So taking this assumption as a given that the team approach is one of the future is now for at least playing .500 and hoping for the playoffs rather than building for the future (if you want to argue this point feel free but one should acknowledge this is not the Bills braintrust approach as they stretched to pick Whitmer early for fear he would be gone and then realy stetched to take Mccargo in the 1st).

 

Thw kwy question is who would you have taken instead.

 

Its hard for me to see how some of the options folks have talked about are actually probably worse than what we got.

 

So whine away if you want folks, but the real fans should at least be able to suggest a different approach though it will get woulda/coulda/shoulda pretty quickly as it would have been nice togo for D'Brick but he was long gone by the time #8 came around and it simply does not appear possible.

 

I was disappointed yesterday as well, but it seems hard for me to see much alternative for us rather than stretching for Whitmer after OAH chose Huff at #7 and Whitmer might go as quick as #9 where Detroit had been talking Huff or in the mid-1st rather than 18 where many ore-draft boards had him.

 

Likewise, we have a huge need on the current roster at DT and the word among many pundits is that McCargo was creeping up boards and might not be there when our second pick came around.  Even worse, no other DT was even taken in the 2nd so with Bunkley and Ngota wrong, if we though McCargo was the thrid best DT at this position of desperate need for us, that is why we traded up to be sure we got him.

 

Things broke badly for us so reach we definitely did, but i see few other reasonable alternatives being suggested while folks bleat this is a disaster.

677345[/snapback]

 

I think the Donte Whitner pick was good, maybe a reach at that time but this draft will depend a lot on how McCargo will develop and play as a DT. We moved up into the first round to get him so its a matter of time until we know how good or bad this draft could be. I think it will turn out to be pretty good.

[Buftex]

Funny, just after my post, they "broke down" the Bills draft. Kiper braught up a great point. He asked "What if the Bills had taken Youboty in the second round, and McCargo in the third? We wouldn't likely be talking about the Bills questionable picks".

 

Golic braught up the character issue, and kind of gave the Bills props for sticking to their stated guns, and avoiding guys with character issues.

 

Ko Simpson, could be a steal, Kiper says, but if he had stayed in school another year, he likely would have been a second rounder....

 

All seemed to agree, the problem with the Bills draft wasn't the players they drafted, it was that they gave up to much to move up to the #26 spot, to draft McCargo.....

[obie_wan]

I like the players we got, but I am still trying to figure out why we had to lose a third round pick to get them...according to Chris Moretnson (I know he sucks, he is ESPN, we hate him, blah, blah, blah- we are not "true fans" if we wonder what the fug the Bills are doing) a number of NFL personal guys he spoke with were "shocked" by the Bills pick of McCargo in the first round, and he specified, it "wasn't just us here", meaning the ESPN analysts.  I also heard Dick Coury on FOX Sports Radio say essentilally the same thing. 

 

If the Bills overvalued McCargo that much, you would have to think they could have likely traded up a few spots in the second round, and given up less, and still got McCargo....

 

As for Mel Kiper, I think a lot of you are "hyperactive pussies" about his commentary.  The guy is not always right, and doesn't claim to be.  If you listened to his analysis of the Bills first day draft he clearly said, he didn't think picking up Whitner with the #8 was a terrible move, because the Bills anticipated that safetys were going to start flying off the board, and it was obviously the position that the Bills had targeted. 

 

While he said that he felt they picked McCargo too high (he thinks he is closer to a third round, maybe even 4th round talent) Kiper did point out that opinions on McCargo varied greatly.  He said JMc was really rising up the charts of a lot of teams (not his), and if they were right, it wouldn't look like such a stretch.

677818[/snapback]

 

 

McCargo would have gone to the Giants or the Colts in the 1st and any number of teams before the Bills in the 2nd.