BuffaloBob Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Do you know he wasn't? We can go round and round all day with this. There's enough information out there to make an educated guess. That guess suggests that he'd be there at 42. If he wasn't, so what? You can't target specific players and go out of your way to make sure you select them. You have to have faith that your scouting department is good and let the draft come to you. The only way you trade up to select a player is if there is overwhelming evidence that multiple teams have that player targeted. Based on the info out there it doesn't seem like that was the case. 675935[/snapback] My point is that maybe the Bills KNEW! I mean, based on what info, the media?? Teams are constantly blowing smoke to the media to throw them off in an attempt to throw other teams off. Do you not think that the Bills have sources to know what teams interviewed McCargo, let alone who might be targeting him? And if there isn't enough info to make an educated guess, why the presumption that it was a mistake in the first place? LOL! I mean, why the presumption that the Bills panicked to "get their guy" as opposed to the fact that they good ointelligence that he wouldn't make it past the first round or early second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 If the Bills felt that Mccargo was the 3rd best DT, which I have seen him ranked there by several scouting services then this was the right thing to do. Bunkley and Ngata were gone. If he also fits the system so much better. The question is are Watson, Wroten and Wright better picks? I say Watson probably is but don't think he fits the cover 2 schemes. Wroten maybe but he has problem child written all over him, and Wright is probably not as good. So if the Bills FO felt that stretching to get the 3rd best player at a huge position of need then you have to do it. Personally I don't know, and I wonder, but I can understand the reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Not if McCargo was available for "trade value" 500. 675899[/snapback] I was only refering to the Pick value not the Player...And assuming McCargo would have been there at #42 is a HUGE assumption... Nonetheless it's clear the Bills philosophy is definitely not to maximize the draft through Extra Selections the way say Jimmie Johnson did...It takes Brass Nuts to Draft that way because you have to have supreme confidence in your Scouting Staff, and you have to resist falling in love with Prospects at Need Areas...That's not Marv's way obviously...And it never was when he was HC either... I was the one screaming Trade Down for Months before this Draft so I know where Folks are coming from here...But it is what it is now...This is the way Marv/Jauron/Modrak feel this Team will be best repaired...Only time will tell if they were right, but I still think it's better to have 4 or 5 Picks in the Top 75 rather then 3 assuming You can Scout and Pick correctly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 My lack of this information is exactly why I'm not critical of the decision, but if you're right that there weren't a lot of teams targeting him, then you're also right that it was a poor decision. And dead-on about not targeting one player (unless the team has a #1-3 overall pick or something). 675959[/snapback] Just because the media wasn't reporting someone targeting him doesn't meean that there weren't. Even Kuyper admitted that there were personnel people out there that really liked him alot. I think it is a silly preumption that just because the media wasn't reporting late first or early second round interest by specific teams that it wan't happening under the radar. Because with that assumpttion then requires that Bills are simply buffoons who panicked to jump ahead for no good reason. I see no reason for that assumption whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 My point is that maybe the Bills KNEW! I mean, based on what info, the media?? Teams are constantly blowing smoke to the media to throw them off in an attempt to throw other teams off. Do you not think that the Bills have sources to know what teams interviewed McCargo, let alone who might be targeting him? And if there isn't enough info to make an educated guess, why the presumption that it was a mistake in the first place? LOL! I mean, why the presumption that the Bills panicked to "get their guy" as opposed to the fact that they good ointelligence that he wouldn't make it past the first round or early second? 675960[/snapback] I'd be very interested in knowing how the Buffalo Bills organization is more informed about other teams value charts than the entire media. Say what you will about the media, they're getting their info from the same places as the Bills [i.e. talking to other teams or hearing rumors that they read in the (gasp) papers and on the internet]. The Bills aren't the CIA with under-cover agents stationed in each of the 31 teams front offices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 John McCargo/DT/North Carolina State Height: 6'1" Weight: 302 40 Time: 5.20 Vertical Jump: 30.5" Bench Press: 25 reps DOB: 8/19/1983 Interested Teams: Baltimore Ravens, Cleveland Browns, Detroit Lions, Kansas City Chiefs, St. Louis Rams Projected Round: 3rd Strengths: Quick and active, McCargo is capable of applying pressure with his initial burst off the ball. Possessing some explosiveness and playing with decent leverage, McCargo hustles and fights his way into the backfield, consistently penetrating and giving opposing offenses fits. He has the speed and mobility to make plays on the move and work around blockers. He has enough closing speed to pursue 'backs from behind. Appears to have terrific football character, and is widely considered to be an intelligent and hard-working student. Weaknesses: Although a good athlete, he lacks the premier quickness and closing burst to be a dominating pass rusher. McCargo needs to improve his array of pass rushing moves. Undersized, he can often be battered around in the running game, due to a lack of size, only average strength, and some technical deficienies. McCargo needs to learn to play with a better base so that he might atleast be adequate anchoring against blockers at the point-of-attack. McCargo missed his final five regular-season games due to a stress fracture in his left foot, an injury which required surgery. Overall: A full time starter since his redshirt freshmen year, and an Academic All-ACC performer, John McCargo is an active, intelligent, hard-working defensive tackle who fits best as a penetrator in a one-gap styled defense, or as a nickel rusher. Although not in the class of bookends Manny Lawson and Mario Williams, McCargo was an important part of North Carolina State's defensive success. McCargo grades out as a third rounder, historically, and will likely be drafted as a second rounder in April. Reminds you of: Chartric Darby, Seattle Seahawks From NFL Draft Almanac.com who ranked him as the 3rd best DT in the draft behind Ngata and Bunkley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 So if the Bills FO felt that stretching to get the 3rd best player at a huge position of need then you have to do it. Personally I don't know, and I wonder, but I can understand the reasoning. 675972[/snapback] I don't think I'd be nearly as annoyed with the move if Marv and Co. hadn't created this huge position of need by cutting Adams. The same goes for cutting Milloy. If the Bills hadn't cut these guys they'd have two serviceable players at those spots and could really use the draft to fix the OL and, barring that, wouldn't feel so pressured to grab a S or DT. If they did manage to grab quality players at these positions they could have cut Milloy and Adams after the draft. It's not like the salary cap was forcing them to cut these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I'd be very interested in knowing how the Buffalo Bills organization is more informed about other teams value charts than the entire media. Say what you will about the media, they're getting their info from the same places as the Bills [i.e. talking to other teams or hearing rumors that they read in the (gasp) papers and on the internet]. The Bills aren't the CIA with under-cover agents stationed in each of the 31 teams front offices. 675983[/snapback] Oh really, and how would you know that? How did the Bills know that Pittsburgh was targeting Ryan Denney? I don't recall that being in the media, but THEY knew. You are awefully presumptious about things for which you have no personal knowledge! Or are you employed by an NFL team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitnerIsAGod Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 One can also gauge interest in the position based on how the draft plays out. The Bills traded up to get a DT. There were 0 DT and only 1 DE picked between their original position and the position they traded up to. Now, it is true that McCargo may have graded significantly higher than the #4 DT in this draft, but in reading the scouting reports it doesn't look that way. One can assume the Bills scouts had a huge drop between McCargo and the next guy and felt some urgency to get ahead of some other team they thought were going to take him. Still, given the way it turned out, the Bills brain trust looks like they were duped or had desperately set their hearts on getting McCargo at all costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Oh really, and how would you know that? How did the Bills know that Pittsburgh was targeting Ryan Denney? I don't recall that being in the media, but THEY knew. You are awefully presumptious about things for which you have no personal knowledge! Or are you employed by an NFL team? 676035[/snapback] You are being just as presumptuous as I am so give yourself an eye-roll too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 You are being just as presumptuous as I am so give yourself an eye-roll too. 676061[/snapback] Oh really? I haven't judged anything one way or the other. You have! All I said is, why the presumption that the Bills braintrust are stupid and buffoons rather than that they knew something we didn't? You have no clue, nor do I. But you are the one bitching about the move, not me. So, no. I am NOT being as presumptuous as you, and thus I will not give myself an eyeroll. But I am happy to giive you another one! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I don't think I'd be nearly as annoyed with the move if Marv and Co. hadn't created this huge position of need by cutting Adams. The same goes for cutting Milloy. If the Bills hadn't cut these guys they'd have two serviceable players at those spots and could really use the draft to fix the OL and, barring that, wouldn't feel so pressured to grab a S or DT. If they did manage to grab quality players at these positions they could have cut Milloy and Adams after the draft. It's not like the salary cap was forcing them to cut these guys. 675994[/snapback] they cut them because they were old, on the decline, starting to become injury prone and a problem in the locker room and therefore WAY overpayed. also, adams doesnt fit into our new scheme and milloy hasnt been as productive as theyd hoped. they replaced said players through the draft with new young players, they addressed some OL needs in FA and will probably do so later in the draft this is how the nfl is supposed to work, isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnosborn Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 One of the nice things about the NFL is that the cream rises to the top. Teams that are well coached and do a good job evaluating personnel win football games. The Bills are one of the 5 worst teams of this decade, they obviously haven't been the cream, they deserve to be criticized, if you don't see that, it's your problem. When Marv was hired, his lack of experience was cited as a potential concern. Remember, Marv was not with the Bills when they drafted Kelly, Smith and Reed 3/4 of the superstar engine that powered the Bills to 9 playoff appearances in 10 years. The personnel moves he has made seem to reflect opinions contrary to those of the rest of the league. The players he has signed in free agency and the contracts he has doled out for them have been puzzling, even though the media has all but forgotten about the sorry, boring team from Buffalo. It's logical to draw the conclusion that Marv is making bad decisions. 675645[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper13 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 "Good Character. Hard Working." That's all anyone needs to know. It was a position of need for the Bills as well. I like the pick. They gave up an extra third round pick to get him. Big deal. Marv knows what he is doing. There is a reason a player like Winston Justice fell to 40th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 seeing as how the team hasnt been tested yet, its illogical to draw any conclusions. all opinions are based purely on specualtion. thats not logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 There is a reason a player like Winston Justice fell to 40th. 676129[/snapback] Jimmy Williams too. can you say "Gangsta"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Keep in mind that McCargo is not going to be a starter for the Bills, at least not this year. He's going to rotate with Tripplett at the 3-tech position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 they cut them because they were old, on the decline, starting to become injury prone and a problem in the locker room and therefore WAY overpayed. also, adams doesnt fit into our new scheme and milloy hasnt been as productive as theyd hoped. they replaced said players through the draft with new young players, they addressed some OL needs in FA and will probably do so later in the draft this is how the nfl is supposed to work, isnt it? 676113[/snapback] Nobody is arguing that they weren't old and on the decline. My point is that these holes were created by the new regime. There was no rush to replace those guys with 1st-rounders this year. They could have used later picks to groom behind them or let the draft come to them in the early rounds and still gotten players to replace them this year. If the latter happened they could have then cut Milloy and Adams after the draft. If they didn't find early picks to replace them then they could groom some other players behind those guys or found their replacements next year. There was absolutely no hurry to rid the team of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Keep in mind that McCargo is not going to be a starter for the Bills, at least not this year. He's going to rotate with Tripplett at the 3-tech position. 676145[/snapback] So Anderson is our starter again .... oh happy happy joy joy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Keep in mind that McCargo is not going to be a starter for the Bills, at least not this year. He's going to rotate with Tripplett at the 3-tech position. 676145[/snapback] I will bet that McCargo lines up and starts on opening day, although they will surely have a rotation of DTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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