Albany,n.y. Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 Free speech doesn't exist in Bush's America http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3387143
Guest RabidBillsFanVT Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 Free speech doesn't exist in Bush's America http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3387143 2677[/snapback] The key words are 'provided by the client.' I doubt that ANYONE who provided tickets to an event would want to be embarassed by someone who used them. That in itself, in my book, got the man fired. He should have known that would happen... it's just plain common sense. But it IS good to see that someone has it right with those protestor T-shirts.
Captain America Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 Free speech doesn't exist in Bush's America http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3387143 2677[/snapback] Well then be quite and go out and shoot a teenage Vietamese boy in the back like your commie leader :I starred in Brokeback Mountain:
Brandon Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 Free speech doesn't exist in Bush's America http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3387143 2677[/snapback] It sounds to me like he probably acted like a jerk and his company decided to hold him accountable for his actions. I don't see what the problem is.
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Well then be quite and go out and shoot a teenage Vietamese boy in the back like your commie leader :I starred in Brokeback Mountain: 2751[/snapback] And you call yourself a Christian? I plucked this from the recent Time. Shrek 2 lesson: "If we approach others with an aim to change them rather than an aim to know them, to love them and to exemplify a better life for them, we make ourselves ugly with arrogance in the process." ~christianitytoday.com
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 It sounds to me like he probably acted like a jerk and his company decided to hold him accountable for his actions. I don't see what the problem is. 2789[/snapback] If he was unethical, I can see your point. Was he in an official compacity?
IUBillsFan Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 If he was unethical, I can see your point. Was he in an official compacity? 2910[/snapback] Why go in the first place? A client gives your company tickets to an event and you go it is IMO in an official compacity. If you don't like the speaker don't go, and if I HAD to guess I would bet this was not the ONLY reason the guy is gone.
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Why go in the first place? A client gives your company tickets to an event and you go it is IMO in an official compacity. If you don't like the speaker don't go, and if I HAD to guess I would bet this was not the ONLY reason the guy is gone. 2985[/snapback] I don't think that there are caveats attached to gifts? The tix were gifts right? If that is the case, then that seems unethical or at least it goes against American principles. Now if he stood up and said is title out loud, then proceeded to make an opinion in the name of the position... I can see you point. Just being your person doesn't preclude that you are in an official compacity. Again the tix were gifts??? How does everyone here (this board) define freedom?
gmac17 Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 scenario: I give a client tickets to a bills game. the client gives them to one of his employees who acts like a jackass by swearing and getting thrown out of the game. Some people sitting around him tell me, I mention it to the client who fires him. what's wrong with that? I might do the same thing in the same situation.
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 scenario: I give a client tickets to a bills game. the client gives them to one of his employees who acts like a jackass by swearing and getting thrown out of the game. Some people sitting around him tell me, I mention it to the client who fires him. what's wrong with that? I might do the same thing in the same situation. 3035[/snapback] So what you are saying there are rules to how you use a personal gift? Nothing if during the profane exchanges bandied about his position and company he works for. Everything (is wrong with that) if he just acted like a jackass... He does have a right to act like a jackass on his own time? So in other words if you act like a jackass while using your frequent flyer miles on vacation... You can get fired?
OGTEleven Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 So what you are saying there are rules to how you use a personal gift? Nothing if during the profane exchanges bandied about his position and company he works for. Everything (is wrong with that) if he just acted like a jackass... He does have a right to act like a jackass on his own time? So in other words if you act like a jackass while using your frequent flyer miles on vacation... You can get fired? 3061[/snapback] Have you ever heard of the word etiquette? If I invited you golfing at my (imaginary) ritzy golf club would I have to say: "please don't throw a tantrum and rip up the fairways with your clubs if you hit a bad shot" or would you understand that? If you did rip up the fairways would you still expect me to do business with you?
gmac17 Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Everything (is wrong with that) if he just acted like a jackass... He does have a right to act like a jackass on his own time? So in other words if you act like a jackass while using your frequent flyer miles on vacation... You can get fired? EEI - this is about as bad as trying to defend $200 vaccuuming jobs. If your boss gives you a gift and with it you embarrass him to the point where it may affect his business, yes he can fire you.
Captain America Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 And you call yourself a Christian? I plucked this from the recent Time. Shrek 2 lesson: "If we approach others with an aim to change them rather than an aim to know them, to love them and to exemplify a better life for them, we make ourselves ugly with arrogance in the process." ~christianitytoday.com 2899[/snapback] Sure I do ,thats very Christian ,dont you think? "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 EEI - this is about as bad as trying to defend $200 vaccuuming jobs. If your boss gives you a gift and with it you embarrass him to the point where it may affect his business, yes he can fire you. 3102[/snapback] Why is that an embarrassment? Not thinking like you is considered an embarassment? Is speaking your political mind illegal? So it boils down to the simple fact that if you don't agree politically with your boss he can fire you? That is just flat wrong. Believe it or not there are people out there that kind of pressure will affect there vote. And that is wrong. And what is wrong with $200 cleaning jobs? You still think they shouldn't be making that much? Why? Because you deem it easy? $200 is chump change. The problem is everybody needs it and they want to pay the absolute minimum. Don't get me started! ... Because you still haven't answered where you dispose of your "trade show" debris??? I'm cool.
gmac17 Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 So it boils down to the simple fact that if you don't agree politically with your boss he can fire you? Where did I say that? I said if you make an ass out of yourself to the point where it may affect your company's bottom line, you may be fired. Answer me this: You sell roofing supplies. Your boss is given 2 bills tickets from one of his big customers who buys millions of dollars in shingles from your company each year. Your boss gives you the tickets, and you sit with 4 other people from the roofing company. You get drunk, harass everyone around you and get thrown out of the stadium for your behavior. you don't think that's grounds for getting fired?
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Where did I say that? I said if you make an ass out of yourself to the point where it may affect your company's bottom line, you may be fired. Answer me this: You sell roofing supplies. Your boss is given 2 bills tickets from one of his big customers who buys millions of dollars in shingles from your company each year. Your boss gives you the tickets, and you sit with 4 other people from the roofing company. You get drunk, harass everyone around you and get thrown out of the stadium for your behavior. you don't think that's grounds for getting fired? 3239[/snapback] No. And it it is not grounds for that roofing company to stop doing business with you. Now if it kept repeatly happening... Maybe yes to both. Shows a repeated lack of judgement. One time is a blip.
OGTEleven Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 No. And it it is not grounds for that roofing company to stop doing business with you. Now if it kept repeatly happening... Maybe yes to both. Shows a repeated lack of judgement. One time is a blip. 3248[/snapback] You know what is grounds for the roofing company to stop doing business with your company? Whatever THEY feel is grounds. Period. How do you as the (fictional) drunk carrying on at a football game get to decide what your customer should or shouldn't do? They could stop doing biz with you for wearing a purple shirt if they felt like it.
Brandon Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 No. And it it is not grounds for that roofing company to stop doing business with you. Now if it kept repeatly happening... Maybe yes to both. Shows a repeated lack of judgement. One time is a blip. 3248[/snapback] But you see, its a matter of opinion. You may not think its a big problem, but some people will. It may have been a one-time blip, but I can guarantee you that many employers wouldn't give you a second. Indeed, many companies, including the small bank I work for, ask you to use some discretion in the way you conduct your personal life. This is especially true if this person happened to hold a fairly high profile position within the company. Anything you do to embarrass yourself could potentially embarrass the company, too, and many employers won't tolerate that, nor should they have to.
KD in CA Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 You know what is grounds for the roofing company to stop doing business with your company? Whatever THEY feel is grounds. Period. How do you as the (fictional) drunk carrying on at a football game get to decide what your customer should or shouldn't do? They could stop doing biz with you for wearing a purple shirt if they felt like it. 3443[/snapback] Exacly. It's funny how people like Exiled forget that little thing called FREEDOM when it comes to business.
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 Exacly. It's funny how people like Exiled forget that little thing called FREEDOM when it comes to business. 3466[/snapback] Is FREEDOM doing exactly what you want? No matter what? Obviously, given these examples, there would probably be more grounds to fire someone. Things just don't go bad in one night.
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