Fan in San Diego Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 One of the Bills' main problems last year was stopping the run, and we had Sam Adams. Haloti Ngata is Sam Adams Jr. Adams didn't do anything last year in terms of stopping the run so why would we want another Adams. Brodrick Bunkley on the other hand is a beast against the run, and he was doing it at FSU. So i don't think it is just because FSU is on TV more than Oregon in this part of the country. I've said it before and i'll say it again, the first problem with Ngata is that he didn't play every down when he was at Oregon and i don't think you use the eighth over all pick on a guy who doesn't play every down. In his career at Oregon, Ngata only had three sacks in his junior year. In a cover 2 you need your defensive lineman to penetrate and apply pressure in order to have success. 3 sacks is not going to cut it. He is said to be an unfinished product and needs to work on his effort that is given on every play. In the bowl game he played in this year he was dominated left and right against a second round pick. I just think that Bunkley is a better pick because he is not a project like Ngata. A guy like Bunkley will come in and make an impact immediately and we don't have to wait around hoping that our pick pans out like we did with Mike Williams. 669556[/snapback] I have to agree with you on Bunkley, lets keep the pick and get a sure fire impact player ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawerchuk10 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 I don't agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Good post. This is where I seperate the two. I have the pleasure of watching Bunkley all year long and I have seen him on more than one occassion split a double team and tackle the running back 4 yards deep, that to me is what we need in our new scheme. I dont want a guy 340 lb. who will, as we all know will get comfortable and balloon to 370 lbs. No thanks I would rather have the everydown guy. And as far as Ngata blocking kicks, I believe Bunkley had 2 in his career but I will have to look it up. 669695[/snapback] He'll get comfortable and balloon to 370?! We all know??????? WTF are you talking about? You don't know your foot from your ass saying things like that. NOBODY knows how these guys will pan out...You don't think Ngata had tackles for a loss? C'mon man, get your head outta the clouds. BOTH are great players...quit knocking Ngata because of your love for Bunkley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 The problem is that Ngata (as you said) would have to be coached to work in this position. I don't think you pick a guy at #8 that will have to be "coached" into a position. The other problems are the fact that people have said he only plays on 1st and 2nd downs, and has a reputation of taking some plays off. He may be a great athlete and a great DT, but MW was supposed to be a Great O-lineman and that didn't turn out to well for us. Maybe he will fit the Bills new defensive scheme, maybe he doesn't. Thats for the coaches and GM to decide and if the Bills draft him, I would not complain and would support their decission, if they pass on him and go with someone else, I won't spend the rest of the offseason crying cause they didn't go with him. 670222[/snapback] Ngata will need to be coached but the thing for folks to keep in mind is that by definition all rookies are not vets and they all will need to be coached both by the old men in charge and by their teammates on what it means to be and play like a pro. In fact, some of the busts we have seen in this league were talented players with little seeming failings but these legends in their own mind proved to be uncoachable by their elders or their peers. There are two raps on Ngata which should give a reasonable person pause: 1. His tendency toward great athletic plays from a big guy (the kick blocks by him for example) but also for taking some plays off- I am necessarily phased bu this as we are well acquainted with DTs like Adams who would go off on vacation often but he still was a Pro Bowl quality DT because the opponent always needed to prepare that this would be one play he took off and enbarrassed them. He always commanded a DT and gave the rest of the DL one on ones. If Ngata takes half the plays off he will be ineffective. however, if he takes 1/3-1/4 of the plays off he can still be a great player. if he needs to do this in order to be fresh in the last quarter and opposing OLs who are on each and every play are worn down I have no problem with this equation. It would be better is he was always on, but this is reality and it ain't gonna happen with many big body guys. The fact both his parents recently passed away ironically may actually end up being a crticial reason why he does improve actually. If part of his inconsistency came because he was freaked by the life altering event of parental death, perhaps this was the reason. In addition, if he was inconsistent merely because he was a party boy, getting drafted by the NFL and working for a living in conjuction with the patental deaths can be a life altering event. Forget the wonderful judgments of us fans who saw him on TV or from the stands, a far more accurate measure of his coachability will come from those who can shake his hand and look him in the eye. 2. There is a rap on him of recurring injury. This may be true, but the Bills docs made the correct call that disagreed with the norm on WM and I am fine with them either rejecting or endorsing Ngata based on their read. There us simply a world of difference between the medical effects of operating with a pro training and conditioning staff and the best weightlifting and training equipment an NFL team can buy and have it shared by about 50 guys compared to the very good but not at the same level as a professional team equipment and professional guidance. The access to doctors is unparalleled to what is available to a college athlete. In the end, like a 5 year old we all control what we put in our mouths and if the Bills braintrust has any sense that Ngata is going to be an irresponsible teammate and eat himself into oblivion they should chose someone else. However, if the braintrust makes the judgment that he will be an adukt now that he is an adult or that the gut wrenching change of losing both parents which word has it he has reacted to by taking solace in working even harder. If the braintrust with access to Ngata himself that none of us armchair addicts can ever have thinks he is worth the chance, I support Marv and the crew is this judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted April 26, 2006 Author Share Posted April 26, 2006 The problem is that Ngata (as you said) would have to be coached to work in this position. I don't think you pick a guy at #8 that will have to be "coached" into a position. The other problems are the fact that people have said he only plays on 1st and 2nd downs, and has a reputation of taking some plays off. He may be a great athlete and a great DT, but MW was supposed to be a Great O-lineman and that didn't turn out to well for us. Maybe he will fit the Bills new defensive scheme, maybe he doesn't. Thats for the coaches and GM to decide and if the Bills draft him, I would not complain and would support their decission, if they pass on him and go with someone else, I won't spend the rest of the offseason crying cause they didn't go with him. 670222[/snapback] Oh, in the grand scheme of things, I think it would be hard to screw up that #8 pick. Williams notwithstanding (as much as I hated stuff TD did, I don't think you can blame him for that pick. A whole bunch of draftniks thought it was a great pick at the time. McKinney (our other possible choice) is now facing prison charges...) I really don't care either way. I'm just confounded by the logic *against* Ngata...Just wanting some clarification... Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Oh, in the grand scheme of things, I think it would be hard to screw up that #8 pick. Williams notwithstanding (as much as I hated stuff TD did, I don't think you can blame him for that pick. A whole bunch of draftniks thought it was a great pick at the time. McKinney (our other possible choice) is now facing prison charges...) I really don't care either way. I'm just confounded by the logic *against* Ngata...Just wanting some clarification... Charles 670809[/snapback] I agree 100% with you on not fully blaming TD for the MW pick, MW made himself the Bust he was here. As for the Ngata needing coaching, yes all players need coaching, even the vets, but we are talking coaching to get a player better at their position, compared to coaching a player into a new system like what you are suggesting with Ngata. Not only are you asking a player to adjust to a new league, you are also asking him to adjust to playing a different style. He may be the type of player that can adapt quickly, he may not. But at #8, you don't take chances like that as it increases the chance of a player being a bust for your team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Ngata will need to be coached but the thing for folks to keep in mind is that by definition all rookies are not vets and they all will need to be coached both by the old men in charge and by their teammates on what it means to be and play like a pro. ... If the braintrust with access to Ngata himself that none of us armchair addicts can ever have thinks he is worth the chance, I support Marv and the crew is this judgment. 670586[/snapback] Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 There are two raps on Ngata which should give a reasonable person pause: 1. His tendency toward great athletic plays from a big guy (the kick blocks by him for example) but also for taking some plays off- 2. There is a rap on him of recurring injury. 670586[/snapback] The irony here is that these raps can be put on Bunkley as well. Both have been injured and both have shown some inconsistency. Both are extremely talented and have great upside. Both will need coaching and to mature into an NFL player. Both, either, or neither could be anything from Hall-of-Famers to complete Mike Williams magnitude busts. Nobody knows for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts