DT or OT in Round 1

[marck]

I believe the choice for the Bills in the 1st round is between offensive tackle and defensive tackle.

 

Both are critical need positions and I see us using our top choice in either of these two areas.

 

I would take a top drawer offensive tackle prospect such as Winston Justice over a DT primarily because DT's can be selected in the 2nd and 3rd round and this is a chance to get a stud Olineman that can play for 10 years.

 

Interested in your thoughts as to which way you would draft with the 1st pick only.

[apuszczalowski]

If its such a critical need posityion, why are we trusting it to an unproven rookie who will not be given time to develop?

 

I think you are really limiting the quality of the players if you say that in the first round we have to draft a player who plays this position, just cuase the bills need someone there. Alot of position that the bills need to pay attention to are deep in this draft, I don't think that if we draft an OL or DT in the 3rd round instead of the 1st we are going to be much worse off.

[R. Rich]

If its such a critical need posityion, why are we trusting it to an unproven rookie who will not be given time to develop?

 

I think you are really limiting the quality of the players if you say that in the first round we have to draft a player who plays this position, just cuase the bills need someone there. Alot of position that the bills need to pay attention to are deep in this draft, I don't think that if we draft an OL or DT in the 3rd round instead of the 1st we are going to be much worse off.

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Oh my goodness, what a concept!! Of course, those who believe the draft is just one round will tell you how we must get a certain position there.

 

Who do I hope the Bills take in the first round? Someone who can play very well.

[30dive]

Impact player....Over used, but acurate!

[CosmicBills]

Who do I hope the Bills take in the first round?  Someone who can play very well.

664393[/snapback]

 

Amen

[bluv]

With this draft being strong in both DT and OT but not great and a worthy pick at our spot besides Da' Brick, I'd either take an impact player such as Davis or Huff if available or what I hope is trade down and get more picks in a draft that is strong at the positions we have need for - just not strong enough for the ighth pick!

[Tasker]

With this draft being strong in both DT and OT but not great and a worthy pick at our spot besides Da' Brick, I'd either take an impact player such as Davis or Huff if available or what I hope is trade down and get more picks in a draft that is strong at the positions we have need for - just not strong enough for the ighth pick!

664489[/snapback]

 

Wow I agree with everybody. This is the first thread in a while where everybody is making sense. Let's get some great talented football players based on what they will give us in the next five years. If Justice is better than Davis, that's fine. But if we don't really think he is better, we are going to feel dumb four years from now when he is average and Davis is going to pro bowls and making big plays. And we will only be able to say "yeah, but our line wasn't good in 2005 and we really wanted to make it to 8-8 in 2006 regardless of our future".

 

 

Now if we can get Marv in agreement with us, this draft can be a positive step forward to winning a Super Bowl in a couple years.

[ans4e64]

neither

 

michael huff or vernon davis baby

[R. Rich]

I'll take that even further, Tasker. It's not an "either/or" situation w/ me. I don't want the Bills to forsake the offensive line or the defensive line. I simply want them to get the most out of the draft picks they have. If we can land a stud DB, TE, or pass rushing DE/LB in the first, then I'm all for it, just as long as we also look to bolster the lines. There's a bunch of great players we could choose in rounds 2 and 3 that will help along the lines. Imagine if we could land Huff in the first, Deuce Latui @ guard in the 2nd, and then use the 3rd round picks on the best DT (McCargo, Oshinowo, Mahelona, Lewis should all be available) and OT (Scott, Whitworth, or Trueblood would be great to pick up here) available. I'd be okay w/ a draft that brings us a starting FS w/ playmaking ability, a stud guard who I believe still has yet to play his best football, and a run stuffing DT and solid left tackle prospect in the first 3 rounds.

[Bill from NYC]

Oh my goodness, what a concept!!  Of course, those who believe the draft is just one round will tell you how we must get a certain position there.

 

Who do I hope the Bills take in the first round?  Someone who can play very well.

664393[/snapback]

 

Why is everybody stressing? We haven't been going after our position of the most need lately anyway. Our last 3 1st draft selections consisted of 2 wideouts and a running back who was injured to the extent that he sat for well over a year. It was part of a 5 year building plan.

 

If Levy chooses a lineman, I am going to be pretty pissed off. We don't need to build a solid team. We need an "immediate impact" player regardless of position. There is always the 5th round for drafting OGs such as Ben Sobieski. Or we could grab another Pucillo in round 7.

 

People need to relax.

[R. Rich]

Why is everybody stressing? We haven't been going after our position of the most need lately anyway. Our last 3 1st draft selections consisted of 2 wideouts and a running back who was injured to the extent that he sat for well over a year. It was part of a 5 year building plan.

 

If Levy chooses a lineman, I am going to be pretty pissed off. We don't need to build a solid team. We need an "immediate impact" player regardless of position. There is always the 5th round for drafting OGs such as Ben Sobieski. Or we could grab another Pucillo in round 7.

 

People need to relax.

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Ah, William. You must've missed my last post, so here it is again...

 

I'll take that even further, Tasker.  It's not an "either/or" situation w/ me.  I don't want the Bills to forsake the offensive line or the defensive line.  I simply want them to get the most out of the draft picks they have.  If we can land a stud DB, TE, or pass rushing DE/LB in the first, then I'm all for it, just as long as we also look to bolster the lines.  There's a bunch of great players we could choose in rounds 2 and 3 that will help along the lines.  Imagine if we could land Huff in the first, Deuce Latui @ guard in the 2nd, and then use the 3rd round picks on the best DT (McCargo, Oshinowo, Mahelona, Lewis should all be available) and OT (Scott, Whitworth, or Trueblood would be great to pick up here) available.  I'd be okay w/ a draft that brings us a starting FS w/ playmaking ability, a stud guard who I believe still has yet to play his best football, and a run stuffing DT and solid left tackle prospect in the first 3 rounds.

664523[/snapback]

 

 

It may have gotten buried.

[Bill from NYC]

I'll take that even further, Tasker.  It's not an "either/or" situation w/ me.  I don't want the Bills to forsake the offensive line or the defensive line.  I simply want them to get the most out of the draft picks they have.  If we can land a stud DB, TE, or pass rushing DE/LB in the first, then I'm all for it, just as long as we also look to bolster the lines.  There's a bunch of great players we could choose in rounds 2 and 3 that will help along the lines.  Imagine if we could land Huff in the first, Deuce Latui @ guard in the 2nd, and then use the 3rd round picks on the best DT (McCargo, Oshinowo, Mahelona, Lewis should all be available) and OT (Scott, Whitworth, or Trueblood would be great to pick up here) available.  I'd be okay w/ a draft that brings us a starting FS w/ playmaking ability, a stud guard who I believe still has yet to play his best football, and a run stuffing DT and solid left tackle prospect in the first 3 rounds.

664523[/snapback]

 

In your scenario, Huff would be playing behind an inexperienced line, against backs such as Dillon and Brown. These guys would be charging into him with a head of steam and break his little ass.

 

This team, imo, is not prepared to waste an 8th on a safety. If we are to go outside the lines, I would rather trade down and grab one of the many linebackers that are said to be available, and grab extra picks in the process, maybe even some in 07.

 

Jmo.

[R. Rich]

In your scenario, Huff would be playing behind an inexperienced line, against backs such as Dillon and Brown. These guys would be charging into him with a head of steam and break his little ass.

 

This team, imo, is not prepared to waste an 8th on a safety. If we are to go outside the lines, I would rather trade down and grab one of the many linebackers that are said to be available, and grab extra picks in the process, maybe even some in 07.

 

Jmo. 

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Even if the Bills are to draft St Haloti of Ngata, the line would still be "inexperienced", as you say. Even if we drafted Winston Justice w/ the 8th pick, the OL would be "inexperienced".

 

Like I've said before, I'm all for adding the most talent we can by getting great value out of our picks.

[Like A Mofo]

St Haloti of Ngata

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[apuszczalowski]

You'd think the only player that will make the team is the #8 pick.

 

You can get quality players that can play in other rounds too, even in the 6th and 7th, thats why they have those rounds. It just depends on how good of a job your scouting department is at chosing those kind of players and finding the good ones.

 

1st round is not the round to draft soley on need, its to take the best player available. If it wasn't, why would the Texans even be thinking of taking Bush? I don't fault TD for taking Losman (may have overpaid for him a bit though), Willis, Evans, or even Parrish where he did. Those were good picks to build this team from. I don't even fault TD for taking MW, its MW's fault he was a complete bust, he was a top rated lineman who decided he didn't like playing football.

 

Taking a TE, or a S is not going to mean the Bills won't address the lines and doesn't mean the team will be worse. The players being mentions would be upgrads to positions of need we have therfore they are justified moves. its not like everyone is trying to justify Buffalo trading up for a QB, a position we have already addressed and just need to sort out right now.

[CajunBillsBacker]

This draft is so unpredictable for the Bills. I don't recall a draft where there were so many possible picks for us. It will be an interesting weekend.

I remember when we drafted Antoine Winfield, everybody and their mama knew Antoine was gonna be a Bill even before the draft started.

[R. Rich]

We had a few more pieces in place than we do now, Cajun. This team can use help all over the place, so they can go in a number of directions w/ their first round pick.

 

 

Let's just hope that the direction they take is "up".

[Pyrite Gal]

It definitely strikes me as an intelligent point that if there is a hole in our current starting line-up which is unlikely to filled by anyone developing on our roster, it actually is quite unlikely that anybody we can get at pick # 8 is going to good enough to fill that hole right off the bat though it is hoped the player picked will be a solid starter by mid or certainly the end of the season.

 

The holes on our current starting rotation which are unlikely to be filled by anyone currently on the roster are:

 

1. RDT- Tim Anderson is first on the depth chart but it is quite unlikely he is going to be the run stuffer we need to stop the run, draw DTs that free up the LBs, or penetrate on occaision to pressure the QB.

 

2. SS- Coy Wire is first on the depth chart but given he failed at starting here befor and the switch to the cover-2 will actually call for more responsibility from him where he had a problem with pass coverage it is very unlikely he will be good enough to start.

 

There are numerous other position where we need a serious upgrade in starter quality, but actually the Bills seem to feel that last year's starter was at least adequate so if the end up with not getting a stud there I do not think we feel bad even though we want better. I think these positions are:

 

1. OT- I think that the Bills are still quite hopeful about Peters at RT that he still has not finished developing there and will prove to be a player capable of holding this position for years. Gandy is not the stud you want at LT, but most folks felt that though he was not the difference maker we want he held his own there.

 

2. FB- I can't believe that they view Shelton as more than a disppointment starting here last year, but there has been little talk of replacing him that I have heard from OBD.

 

3. Backup RB- Though this is not a starter, given the sense our back-ups are not starter quality, WM's recent history of a blow-out injury, a fan restlessness with the downturn in WM's production in the second half of last year (though for the most part I think this is silly since he has gotten to 2000 yards rushing faster than any Bill RB ever). I think this may be a bigger priority than has been talked about.

 

In addition, to these holes, there are also some positions where output was unacceptable last year but the prospects for player development on the roster probably make this a low priority. These positions include:

 

1. LG- Anderson was essentially inadequate last year, but some feel his play in the last 5 or so games indicates he is coming toward the form we expected when we gave him a pretty good FA deal. In addition, Preston has now been moved on the depth chart to back-up LG and unless this was done as some smoke for the draft I suspect he will pressure Anderson for the starter job.

 

2. RG- Villarial is set as the starter, but he began to show that the many years that have made him a solid player also resulted in some nicks knocking him out of a few games. His back-ups are wishes if anything and we may be looking for a G who is flexible enough to back-up and be trained at RG or pressure Anderson and Preston at LG.

 

3. TE- Output was inadequate leading to a cut of whathisname (how soon we forget when they are gone). However, the acquisition of Royal, the it is to be hoped development of Euhus, the it is to be hoped development of Everett, and the prescence of Neufeld as a flexible back-up and the pipedream hopes for Cieslak make this position pretty full.

 

4. QB- 05 production was unacceptable, but given that the options for someone to develop are Losman (the Bills still have hope), Holcomb (a solid back-up who has never been a consistent starter anywhere is the likely #2 with little chance of being a starter because there is no way he is the Bills QB of the future), Nall (an interesting longshot to start) and also Woodbury and Ochs the position is full.

 

5. C is an interesting position for us, as Fowler (whom I thought highly of when he was drafted) seems to be the man. Fowler actually appeared good starting at C in place of an injured starter last year and impressed enough he became too expensive to re-sign as a back-up. Geisinger is now his back-up rather than Preston who potentially could have been a young starter at C. The move of Preston on the depth chart to LG probably reflects some confidence in Fowler.

 

In addition, there are positions which seem pretty locked up for us:

 

1. DEs- Schobel looks like the man at RE and Kelsay/Denny will duel with each other for LE and allow us to rotate.

 

2. FS- Vincent led this team in INTs last year, had some speed back when he was a youth and is backed up by former starter at FS Baker and the hard hitting Leonhard. Some folks want to flush TV (as illogical as it would be for this team to simply cut a guy whot tied for the team lead in INTs and FRs) and the cover 2 has now added to his career.

 

3. Tagging NC, the development of McGee, and Greer likely being pushed by Hill for the nickel makes the CB slots set.

 

4. Hawk looks like a great player but if the unlikely happens and he somehow drops to #8 he ironically is a good player who if taken would likely set back the development of this team as it would not only force us to sit millions on our bench as a back-up, but leave us not using the #8 to reinforce the many holes on this roster. If he drops, lets hope for the team's sake we can trade the ability to draft him for the extra help we desperately need.

 

5. WR- We have a bunch of bodies on this roster who will compete to be an adequate #2. None of Parish, Reed, Aiken, or Davis has ever played at an adequate level to be a #2 and though Price has his bad experiences where he failed to be the #1 in AT must give pause. However, there are enough bodies here that someone will likely step up. Price was probably worth the too high bonus he seemed to get because as long as the docs judge him to be OK he would be devastating as our #3 if that is the best he can do.

 

We should be fine on ST given that we have a number of quality back-up level players who will compete to be starters and when they lose we get them on ST.

 

How this all shakes out in my view is:

 

1. Haloti raises a number of concerns as there is persistent badmouthing of him by Ourlads and on TSW about him being inconsistent. Hpwever, if one subscribes to the Bills Parcells Planet Theory thatdemographically Haloti really is the one player most likely to be available at #8 where if he plays up to his capability and like an adult when he is drafted he may make a difference for the Bills right from the start.

 

There are two things which seem to be the key to making a judgment whether he is a good pick at #8:

 

A. The Bills braintrust needs to look him in the eye when they interview him and decide whether he will be the man they need to use his big body consistently the way we want. He can take vacations sometimes and it will be fine because the opponents will not know when he is taking a play off and will need to dt him. However, if he only plays hard half the time, he will be ineffective because opponents can risk that he is off in a manger on the enxt play. However, if like Sam Adams when we got him he suddenly was there 66-75% of the time he can become a pro bowler.

 

B. What the docs say is critical. There are complaints of him suffering some recurring nagging injuries in his lower body. The Bills docs proved their stuff making a great call on the ability of WM to recover physically.

 

Some folks rag on Haloti mercilessly on this board, but because they have not seen him face to face to gauge whether the recent death of his Mom (word has it that unlike MW who suffered a meltdown when the Grammy who raised him died, Haloti has responded to these unfortunate events by working harder than he ever worked as a kid in school) and him entering the adult world has made a change in him to not go on vacation so much assessments by mere fans based on his college play strike me as pretty worthless compared to what the Bills braintrust will intuit from talking to him.

 

In addition, to outside commentators being easy to ignore about assessing his effort, they also are pretty easily ignored regarding health issues unless they are his doctors.

 

I do not know either what kind of man Haloti will turn out to be, but I do have trust in the Bills docs and their record of good diagnosis of players in the past and also of Marv who was a real idiot on the football field with his brief adoption of the single wing and some qustionable redzone calls. However, he easily made up for these deficits by being a wonderful delegator and leader of a very diverse Bills team to 4 straight SBs. If they take Haloti great, but if they pass on him great as well. My guess is that the braintrust looked him in the eye and the docs poked. prodded and looked and they will make a reasonable choice to pick him or pass.

 

Huff also is a reasonable choice if we make it. but given that safeties rarely go as high as #8 and the general sense this is a pretty strong draft at S, if Huff is the best choice my advice is to trade down because we can find a player better than Wire further down and we need the help anyway.

[bluv]

In this draft, I really don't see a player at our biggest need positions of DT, OT, and guard worthy of a #8 pick unless it is Da'Brick; everyone else is not that much of an upgrade over their competition that could be had in later rounds. So unless an impact player at other positions can be had, we should trade down so that we can take more of the talented but not worthy of a high pick talent that is available in this draft at those positions of need.

 

This is why I hope we never have a real high pick in the draft for it will have to be a boom or bust player for based on his draft position he will be paid handsomely. A top 5 pick can't just begodd he has to be great. Look at MW; while he was far from being great or dominant he wasn't as bad a player as some make him out to be. But since he was picked # 4 he has to be outstanding in order to justify the pick. Then take an undrafted FA like Peters who comes in and plays OK then he is considered a gem for he is playing for peanuts. I guess #8 is as high as I want us to ever have to draft if we suck and continue to lose I'd rather trade down for I rather have a player that if he fails doesn't break the bank than a bust who will set the team back years.

[dundy249]

I believe the choice for the Bills in the 1st round is between offensive tackle and defensive tackle.

 

Both are critical need positions and I see us using our top choice in either of these two areas.

 

I would take a top drawer offensive tackle prospect such as Winston Justice over a DT primarily because DT's can be selected in the 2nd and 3rd round and this is a chance to get a stud Olineman that can play for 10 years.

 

Interested in your thoughts as to which way you would draft with the 1st pick only.

664378[/snapback]

 

Yes because as we all know the stud OL come from the first round?????Mike Williams?