K-gunner Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Bunkley just impresses me a lot more then ngata It's easy to get caught up in Ngata's physical size...he looks the part.But so did Big Daddy Wilkerson,Darryl Gardner..ect. Bunkley aint a lightwieght plus he has drive..that seals it for me.
John from Riverside Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Something that is getting missed here..... I think it is wonderful about the debate between Bunkly and Ngata..... There are both DAMN fine players...... In other words....its a WIN WIN SITUATION
Ozymandius Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 As much as I've hated on Ngata recently, if the choice is strictly between Ngata and Bunkley, give me the fatso from Oregon. He's actually less of an injury risk than Bunkley. Obviously my choice is really neither. I'd wait until the second round to draft Wroten.
Ozymandius Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 It's really not just Wroten, though. Mahelona, Jonathan Lewis, any of those guys could help us. Wroten has great potential as a one-gapper, though. Could be Pro Bowler like Tommie Harris.
BB2004 Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Thanks for the links. Ngata keeps sounding more and more like sam adams jr. not a good sign. 663669[/snapback] I don't think the two are the same type of players. We need a run stopper in the mold of Pat Williams, and I think Ngata is the guy.
Ozymandius Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 To me, neither of these guys is draftable in the first round due to injury concern. Here's what I wrote about Ngata, and I'll move onto Bunkley shortly: "I guess opinions can vary on whether the knee is stronger now (personally I still prefer the uncut knee to the cut knee) but I don't think either of us is in a position to judge that. What concerns me more is that he tore the knee in the first place. He's injury prone. When he came back from the knee injury in 2004, he was then slowed for a huge chunk of the season by a nagging hamstring injury. And then this past year, he was hobbled late in the season by an ankle sprain. Then, in his bowl game, he was forced to leave the game due to a knee sprain (and sidenote: Oregon started playing better without him in there.) Notice how all these injuries are lower body. It's always a concern with a guy this big -- does he have the ligaments and tendons to support that kind of weight? If we draft him, is he always going to be playing at 80% due to some nagging injury? When is the next ACL tear going to occur? Bunkley tore his knee twice, for example (the same knee, btw, so maybe it does NOT get stronger). I would just hate to take on an injury risk at the #8 overall pick. I like the fact that he will play through injuries (except, of course, when the ligament is completely torn), but if he's consistently slowed by injuries, his value drops dramatically. Maybe that's why he seems so sluggish sometimes, he's injured."
Ozymandius Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 About Bunkley, I had mentioned that he had to rebuild his left knee twice (ACL in high school, MCL in college). In 2004, his junior season, he was slowed most of the season by an ankle injury. 2005 was his first really healthy season playing full-time, and while he produced very well, this guy is a huge injury risk overall who will recieve little nicks and nacks all the time. He had to miss a practice during Senior Bowl week due to injury.
Rubes Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 In other words....its a WIN WIN SITUATION 663880[/snapback] Would you have said the same thing in '02 when it was Williams vs. McKinnie?
Mark VI Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 What if we select NEITHER ? He's a Guard for Prarie View, BTW...
Ozymandius Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 I don't always agree with the Scouts Inc evaluations on espn.com, but one thing I like about that site is that they'll consistently mention a player's injury history, which I find to be very useful. The first question I ask about a player isn't "how good is he?". It's "has he shown durability"? Because if a player is constantly injured before reaching the NFL, odds are he's going to continue being injured at the next level when everyone is bigger and faster. There are some players I just won't draft at all. For example, I've enjoyed watching Eric Henderson play for GaTech during his career, and as much as I want the Bills to draft an LDE prospect in this draft, I have this guy marked as undraftable because he can't stay on the field. That's my first filter -- are you durable or not?
John from Riverside Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Would you have said the same thing in '02 when it was Williams vs. McKinnie? 663918[/snapback] Would I? Hell...I DID
Ozymandius Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 And in case anyone's wondering, Wroten, Watson, and to a slightly lesser extent Rod Wright, Mahelona, Jonathan Lewis were all durable players during college.
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 And in case anyone's wondering, Wroten, Watson, and to a slightly lesser extent Rod Wright, Mahelona, Jonathan Lewis were all durable players during college. 663957[/snapback] If we dont get bunkley I'll be happy with Wroten Lewis or Mahelona someone else can have wright or watson. I still believe we need to come away with at least 2 dt's out of this draft though.
Ozymandius Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 If we dont get bunkley I'll be happy with Wroten Lewis or Mahelona someone else can have wright or watson. I still believe we need to come away with at least 2 dt's out of this draft though. 663958[/snapback] I hear ya. In all my mocks, I have us taking two DTs on the first day, which I consider a necessity. Like you, I've targetted Wroten Mahelona and Lewis.
dave mcbride Posted April 17, 2006 Author Posted April 17, 2006 And in case anyone's wondering, Wroten, Watson, and to a slightly lesser extent Rod Wright, Mahelona, Jonathan Lewis were all durable players during college. 663957[/snapback] yeah, but sometimes guys get hurt a lot but aren't injury prone at all -- sometimes, it's just bad luck. and bad injuries can happen to anyone who plays football. this particular issue makes me think of shaun rogers, a definite top-half-of-the-1st-round talent who dropped because of worries about his injury past. i don't he's been seriously injured since he's come into the nfl. on a completely different topic, someone brought up dan wilkinson. if he had been drafted at the end of the first round instead of first overall, i think people would be saying that he's had a pretty good career, with about 3 or 4 high quality seasons.
Ozymandius Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 yeah, but sometimes guys get hurt a lot but aren't injury prone at all -- sometimes, it's just bad luck. and bad injuries can happen to anyone who plays football. this particular issue makes me think of shaun rogers, a definite top-half-of-the-1st-round talent who dropped because of worries about his injury past. i don't he's been seriously injured since he's come into the nfl. 663968[/snapback] True, but I'm not exactly dying to take that chance at #8 overall, or even after a small trade down. Go ahead and look through the other DT profiles from that website you linked to start this thread. Notice how John McCargo and Jonathan Lewis were given the same grades as Bunkley, with Mahelona not far behind. Wroten is up there as well. See, that's my whole point. I don't want to take an injury risk at #8 overall when this DT class is deep.
cantankerous Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 LOL @ people reading these scouting reports like they're the Gospel. I'll take Ngata.
Ozymandius Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 LOL @ people reading these scouting reports like they're the Gospel. I'll take Ngata. 664115[/snapback] Actually, it's the internet scouting reports that are Ngata's best friends. It's why you and everyone else think he's the best DT in the draft because almost every internet scouting report has him as the best DT on the board. You should like scouting reports.
cantankerous Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 I've actually SEEN him play, that's why I like him...not from the scouting reports. Fair enough?
Ozymandius Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 Fair enough. I've seen him play, too, and remain unimpressed. Especially in the last game of his career against Oklahoma where he didn't really do anything before leaving the game due to injury.
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