Blue Chipper Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 If Ferguson some how falls to # 8 we keep the pick but thats probably not going to happen. So the best case scenerio would be for the Bills to trade with Minny for their 1st round pick (#17) and their 2nd round pick (#48) so they can take Cutler who people say Brad Childress want badly and could see him fighting with Brad Johnson for the starting position right away. That leaves us picking at 17 where Winston Justice will be available. Every mock Ive looked at has him going somewhere between 16-20. He is the 2nd best o-lineman in the draft and comes from a winning tradition where he started since his freshman year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Those mocks are wrong or outdated. Justice is a top 15, possibly top 10 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quebecer Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 If we drop to 17, I say we go Eric Winston... then with 2 2nd round picks, we go OG & DT/S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 If we drop to 17, I'd rather just see us drop one more time to the end of the first round to gain another second rounder. BTW,the drop from 8 to 17 might require more than just a second rounder from Minny. Here's a site that keeps track of hundreds of mocks... Justice being a top 13 pick is old news now... http://www.fantasyfootballjungle.com/y/200...ndex.php?id=262 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 If Ferguson some how falls to # 8 we keep the pick but thats probably not going to happen. So the best case scenerio would be for the Bills to trade with Minny for their 1st round pick (#17) and their 2nd round pick (#48) so they can take Cutler 662719[/snapback] While I'm certainly OK with a Trade down, #17 and #48 alone is not enough for #8...They would HAVE to sweeten the Deal...It falls 30 short on the Value Chart anyway, and on top of that they are coming up to the Top 10 for a QB...The Vikes would need to throw in something else... How about Pat Williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 I think #17 and next years #1 is fair value for the #8. Though they may be hesitant to do such a trade because personally, I feel the vikings are in for a 4-12, 5-11 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 If Ferguson some how falls to # 8 we keep the pick but thats probably not going to happen. So the best case scenerio would be for the Bills to trade with Minny for their 1st round pick (#17) and their 2nd round pick (#48) so they can take Cutler who people say Brad Childress want badly and could see him fighting with Brad Johnson for the starting position right away. That leaves us picking at 17 where Winston Justice will be available. Every mock Ive looked at has him going somewhere between 16-20. He is the 2nd best o-lineman in the draft and comes from a winning tradition where he started since his freshman year. 662719[/snapback] Yoyr looking at old mocks. If you drop to 17 Justice will be gone, Ngata will be gone, Bunkley will be gone and Huff will be long gone. The extra 2nd rounder will be nice but we will not find a rookie to start at LT or DT for this season. If you want Justice you might be able to drop to 12. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Yoyr looking at old mocks. If you drop to 17 Justice will be gone, Ngata will be gone, Bunkley will be gone and Huff will be long gone. The extra 2nd rounder will be nice but we will not find a rookie to start at LT or DT for this season. If you want Justice you might be able to drop to 12. We shall see. 662732[/snapback] Agreed... The thing about the #8-#12 area is you likely have some combination of Cutler, Justice, Ngata, Bunkley, Huff, and Davis in that mix...I think those Names along with Ernie Sims and DeAngelo Williams are the 2nd Tear of Round #1 Prospects... After that the fall-off, especially at OT and DT, is pretty severe...In fact I think it could be argued that The Bills could Trade Down again from #17 to the #20-25 Area and still get about the same-type Prospect if an OT or DT is the Target... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasker Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 I don't mind dropping, because I like some players who aren't really worth #8, and otherwise wouldn't go that high (Justice and Bunkley). But it will take a lot more than a second round pick to get us to drop to #17. That's nine spots. By comparison when the Jets moved up 9 spots in 2003 to take Robertson, (from 13 to 4, so a little different), they gave up the #22 pick and a 4th rounder. I certainly hope that we can use a Cutler happy team to take a player like Bunkley or Justice who we really like and might easily slip beyond #8, but any trade down has to give us more value, not just more picks, and that is a careful valuation of players available, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Those mocks are wrong or outdated. Justice is a top 15, possibly top 10 pick. 662722[/snapback] If you drop to 17 Justice will be gone, Ngata will be gone, Bunkley will be gone and Huff will be long gone. The extra 2nd rounder will be nice but we will not find a rookie to start at LT or DT for this season. If you want Justice you might be able to drop to 12. We shall see. 662732[/snapback] Agreed on both points. If the Bills are interested in Justice, a likely trade partner for them would be St. Louis who is sitting at #11. The Rams would love to have Vernon Davis and could almost guarantee him with the #8 pick. Justice is climbing most draft boards and more than likely wouldn't be available in the Vikings slot at #17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Vernon Davis will probably be drafted by the 49ers at #6 Agreed on both points. If the Bills are interested in Justice, a likely trade partner for them would be St. Louis who is sitting at #11. The Rams would love to have Vernon Davis and could almost guarantee him with the #8 pick. Justice is climbing most draft boards and more than likely wouldn't be available in the Vikings slot at #17. 662817[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Vernon Davis will probably be drafted by the 49ers at #6 662819[/snapback] Maybe. Or maybe they take Hawk. The point is, if Davis is still on the board at #8, the Rams would be the most logical trade partner for the Bills. No matter what, things are definitely getting interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasker Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Maybe. Or maybe they take Hawk. The point is, if Davis is still on the board at #8, the Rams would be the most logical trade partner for the Bills. No matter what, things are definitely getting interesting. 662822[/snapback] But only if we like Justice + whatever they give us more than Davis. I'd pick Davis over Justice right now (even though I'd love a tackle, and really like Justice), so it would come down to what they are offering us. Don't Baltimore and Cleveland like Ngata enough to move up? And who higher up than the Vikings would like Cutler? Right now I think Justice and Bunkley are exciting values, but probably can be had lower than #8. Especially if we are open to having either of them (and wouldn't get our hearts broken if one of them is gone when we pick lower) then we can probably find something that would work. I think we should consider all the trade down offers, and try to make some ourselves, but only follow through if we are coming out on top and in better shape than taking the best player at #8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 I would make this deal with the Vikes....it comes out about even... Vikes get #8 and #70, #105 Bills get #17, #48 and #51 Value board says...they owe us 450 points for the move to #8 They give us 360 ponts above the 450 with the two second rounders We give them 240 back with the third rounder and 84 with the 105 pick...the 40 point premium is rounding error for them to get Cutler. We end up with 5 picks in the top 73...#17, #41, #48, #51, #73 in a deep draft... I want both their seconds to make this deal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Maybe. Or maybe they take Hawk. The point is, if Davis is still on the board at #8, the Rams would be the most logical trade partner for the Bills. No matter what, things are definitely getting interesting. 662822[/snapback] If Davis is still on the board at 8 and the Bills don't select him, I might cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 If Davis is still on the board at 8 and the Bills don't select him, I might cry. 662830[/snapback] Don't get me wrong...I'd be very happy if the Bills took Davis. My scenario was only speculation if the Bills were interested in Justice. Obviously, we won't know their true thinking until they make their first selection. I'd rather have Davis or see them trade down than select Ngata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 If Davis is still on the board at 8 and the Bills don't select him, I might cry. 662830[/snapback] Don't go all Dick Vermeil on us man... Not being the expert most are on the draft..I can't judge Davis' talent..but he certainly looks like a player...We need another game changer on offense and it seems he would fit the part. I will give you one big reason why I think adding Davis would ignite the offense...none of our receivers immediately jump off the page as guys you have to double on the outside. They can beat man coverage every so often but I just don't think Evans is quite there yet as a guy you double consistently. Having Davis running down the seam is a threat to which the opposing D has to be attentive. It takes some of the pressure off the wideouts and may help open the middle a bit for the run...The only question I have is if Everett gives us the same thing if he is healthy.. I am more concerned about the interior OL than the Tackles..I know that might be silly--but we have gotten manhandled in the middle more than anything in the run game the last 6 years..I think we can get a starting gaurd in Round 2 or 3 who you can plug in right away..(Giles, Joseph, Spencer, one of the two USC guys)..even if we go OT in round 1 I am not sure that guy starts right away--there just are not many guys capable of making the leap at Tackle to immediate NFL Starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Don't go all Dick Vermeil on us man... Not being the expert most are on the draft..I can't judge Davis' talent..but he certainly looks like a player...We need another game changer on offense and it seems he would fit the part. I will give you one big reason why I think adding Davis would ignite the offense...none of our receivers immediately jump off the page as guys you have to double on the outside. They can beat man coverage every so often but I just don't think Evans is quite there yet as a guy you double consistently. Having Davis running down the seam is a threat to which the opposing D has to be attentive. It takes some of the pressure off the wideouts and may help open the middle a bit for the run...The only question I have is if Everett gives us the same thing if he is healthy.. I am more concerned about the interior OL than the Tackles..I know that might be silly--but we have gotten manhandled in the middle more than anything in the run game the last 6 years..I think we can get a starting gaurd in Round 2 or 3 who you can plug in right away..(Giles, Joseph, Spencer, one of the two USC guys)..even if we go OT in round 1 I am not sure that guy starts right away--there just are not many guys capable of making the leap at Tackle to immediate NFL Starter. 662845[/snapback] You said it better than I could have, that's for sure. I am not a draftnik, nor an expert (in basically anything), but Davis could fill a serious hole on this team for years to come. Certainly the Bills have other holes, but none of the players available at 8 (in my mind) can have the impact that Davis can. Still, since he is my number one wish, I know that he will be gone before the Bills get a chance to nab him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Don't get me wrong...I'd be very happy if the Bills took Davis. My scenario was only speculation if the Bills were interested in Justice. Obviously, we won't know their true thinking until they make their first selection. I'd rather have Davis or see them trade down than select Ngata. 662834[/snapback] Totally agree with you here. I am NOT on the Ngata bandwagon at all, nor do I think the Bills should take any DT at the 8 spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 If we drop to 17, I say we go Eric Winston... then with 2 2nd round picks, we go OG & DT/S 662724[/snapback] I like Winston but think #17 too high on him. Instead I'd look for Mathias Kiwanuka. As think he has the size to be an every down Left DE and offers more upside then Chris Kelsay. We could then possibly shift Denney to back up DT full time so long we take a DT somewhere on day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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