Lv-Bills Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 that I believe the Bills will lose money this season. No way in hell. The agreement may suck, and we could be in trouble, and maybe in the future we could end up losing money. I especially believe this if the city of Buffalo doesn't get it's self together economically. But with TV money and revenue sharing almost covering most, if not all of player payroll, do I believe for one minute that the Bills will lose money this season. I'll stand with Ralph 100%, as long as he doesn't play the "I'm losing money this season card", because that has got to be a crock of horseshit. Don't get stupid with this thing Ralph. And if you are going to lose money this year, and you have nothing to lose, then open your books. Otherwise, don't even go the baseball route and play us for fools and tell me you are going to actually LOSE money this year. I'm not buying that one at all. By the way, this is stemming from article claiming the Bills could lose 5-10 million THIS season.
JoeF Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 I know this will be interpreted as disloyal and I love Ralph...but its really hard for me to jump on board the "Ralph pity train" when he has an asset he invested $25K in 1960 that is now worth north of a half a billion with probably net profits over those 46 years in the hundreds of millions of dollars...all paid by you and me and TV.... I am okay with fighting for every dollar in the new agreement and fighting to make up the $10-15 million dollars in annual losses that Littman (who by the way looks like what you think of when you hear the word accountant) now predicts from the new CBA and do all you can to make this franchise valuable for the new ownership group, but save the poverty argument Ralph--its really disingenuous...
Dan Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 I think there's alot more to all this than any of us may be aware of. From reading the news clips, its seems like there's a few possibilities: 1. If Ralph wills it to his daughter, she pays bigtime taxes. Therefore, that plan is probably not a plan. 2. If Ralph sells the team and the new owner moves the team, they don't get the same sharing deal as everyone else. So the Team is no longer worth $700 million, It's worth substantially less. 3. If Ralph sells to local investors and they keep the team in Buffalo, they' have to meet certain qualifiers to get full sharing. They supposedly can't meet these qualifiers in Buffalo, therefore the team is worth much less. Essentially, as I'm seeing it, the Team is ESTIMATED to be worth $700 mill. However, that's based on the revenue sharing deals and TV and all this stuff I don't completely understand. So, if the new deal goes through and Ralph keeps the team in Buffalo, the actual value of the team may be several 100 million less. That's a loss of 2-300 million, and that's probably what Ralph's worried about. However, he could move the team himself and retain that full estimated value, if not gain value. Another thing you have to consider in all this is legacy. At a certain point, you've made your money, you live well, your family lives well. So money is less of a concern and your interests become more of a "I want what I built to be here for ever". That could possibly be at the heart of wanting to keep the stadium with his name, as well as keeping the team in Buffalo. I'm certain, Ralph doesn't like the idea of working his whole life to keep the Bills in Buffalo and building this great legacy, just to see it sold and moved and everything he's worked for and been a part of for half his life is gone.
ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 Littman is hilarious. Ralph finally hired a little rat to cook the books for him. This is turning into a side show with Wilson pulling all the strings. Pity me, pity me. He pulls this sob song ever 15 years like clockwork to get a new stadium. THe Erie County tax payers are in debt up to their necks and this rich premadonna old goat wants a new stadium to furhter line his pockets? Kidding me. They should move, or simply get a better business model, starting with him taking his name off the stadium at $5 million per season.
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 I especially believe this if the city of Buffalo doesn't get it's self together economically. 660950[/snapback] HAHAHAHA! Way to go unions! They're destroying cities faster than any terrorist ever could.
PromoTheRobot Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 Hey, believe what you want. "Ralph is lying...Ralph is senile...blah blah blah.." Whatever. The reality is the clock is ticking on the Bills. PTR
MarkyMannn Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 If the ultimate plan is for me to kick in $$$ thru higher ticket prices and/or taxes to make Ralph and his players wealthier, forget it, goodbye, and have a nice life BTW, I am a season ticket holder
30dive Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 A moritorium on these type of threads was declared (by me) and started yesterday at noon. It will be in effect for 30 days. Please stop this constant ringing in my ears......Oh Jimbo said no worries, the Bills are not going anywhere.
stuckincincy Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 A moritorium on these type of threads was declared (by me) and started yesterday at noon. It will be in effect for 30 days. Please stop this constant ringing in my ears......Oh Jimbo said no worries, the Bills are not going anywhere. 661046[/snapback] Moratorium.
MarkyMannn Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 A moritorium on these type of threads was declared (by me) and started yesterday at noon. It will be in effect for 30 days. Please stop this constant ringing in my ears......Oh Jimbo said no worries, the Bills are not going anywhere. 661046[/snapback] I agree. It almost makes me think all the Eric Moulds threads were the good old days compared to this
Lv-Bills Posted April 13, 2006 Author Posted April 13, 2006 I think there's alot more to all this than any of us may be aware of. From reading the news clips, its seems like there's a few possibilities: 1. If Ralph wills it to his daughter, she pays bigtime taxes. Therefore, that plan is probably not a plan. 2. If Ralph sells the team and the new owner moves the team, they don't get the same sharing deal as everyone else. So the Team is no longer worth $700 million, It's worth substantially less. 3. If Ralph sells to local investors and they keep the team in Buffalo, they' have to meet certain qualifiers to get full sharing. They supposedly can't meet these qualifiers in Buffalo, therefore the team is worth much less. Essentially, as I'm seeing it, the Team is ESTIMATED to be worth $700 mill. However, that's based on the revenue sharing deals and TV and all this stuff I don't completely understand. So, if the new deal goes through and Ralph keeps the team in Buffalo, the actual value of the team may be several 100 million less. That's a loss of 2-300 million, and that's probably what Ralph's worried about. However, he could move the team himself and retain that full estimated value, if not gain value. Another thing you have to consider in all this is legacy. At a certain point, you've made your money, you live well, your family lives well. So money is less of a concern and your interests become more of a "I want what I built to be here for ever". That could possibly be at the heart of wanting to keep the stadium with his name, as well as keeping the team in Buffalo. I'm certain, Ralph doesn't like the idea of working his whole life to keep the Bills in Buffalo and building this great legacy, just to see it sold and moved and everything he's worked for and been a part of for half his life is gone. 660988[/snapback] I hear all of this. But I'm not really talking about any of this. I do not want to hear that the Bills will be losing money this season. That is a crock of horseshit, and it will make, not only myself, but everyone else think that Ralph is making up numbers. There is no way in hell the Buffalo Bills, will lose money this season. TV money covers almost all player payroll. How in the hell would the Bills lose money this upcoming year? Like I said, I'm with Ralph 100%, just don't tell me that the Bills will lose money this year. That, I would think, is a flat out lie.
Lv-Bills Posted April 13, 2006 Author Posted April 13, 2006 A moritorium on these type of threads was declared (by me) and started yesterday at noon. It will be in effect for 30 days. Please stop this constant ringing in my ears......Oh Jimbo said no worries, the Bills are not going anywhere. 661046[/snapback] Yeah, sorry but I'm not with your moratorium on this subject. My head has just about exploded with guessing between which four players we are going to draft at #8. I actually love the business side of sports. It's what I went to school for, and I think it's pretty fun to talk about. It's current, it's relevant, and it's the Bills. That's what the message boards are for.
JoeF Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 Hey, believe what you want. "Ralph is lying...Ralph is senile...blah blah blah.." Whatever. The reality is the clock is ticking on the Bills. PTR 661027[/snapback] Nobody said Ralph is lying and one would be pretty naive to believe the threat of moving is anything but serious....but don't try to sell me that losing $10M this next year is a huge concern when your original investment has 20,000 times the value now...(based on $500M)... Just change the messaging all to future tense and concern about degrading the franchise value and never again being able to run the franchise profitably without a change in the league revenue mix...but don't message around the short term $10M loss when you have made probably hundreds of million in profits and franchise value appreciation the past 46 years.. Its idiocy to talk about $10M...
JoeF Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 A moritorium on these type of threads was declared (by me) and started yesterday at noon. It will be in effect for 30 days. Please stop this constant ringing in my ears......Oh Jimbo said no worries, the Bills are not going anywhere. 661046[/snapback] Censor..move to China...
apuszczalowski Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 There is no way in hell the Buffalo Bills, will lose money this season. TV money covers almost all player payroll. How in the hell would the Bills lose money this upcoming year? 661066[/snapback] That was under the old CBA, under the new one, they may not get enough to cover the players salary in just TV money alone. They may lose money this year, but it might not be much (5-10 million). The problem is that under the new CBA, they will continue to lose money with getting more revenue through sponsors, luxury boxes, raising ticket prices to compete with the middle ranked ticket prices. Where they get caught is that by doing this, it increases the revenue of the league, which will raise the salary cap, which will raise the minimum salary cap, making the hole deeper and making it harder for teams to cut back on salaries to stay in the black. Teams that are floating below the surface will continue to sink while teams at the top will continue treading water. I will guarantee you will see a couple of years some teams on the brink of shutting down, more owners selling their teams, or threatening to move.
socalfan Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 Moratorium. 661052[/snapback] Oh, is that what he was trying to say!
Lv-Bills Posted April 13, 2006 Author Posted April 13, 2006 That was under the old CBA, under the new one, they may not get enough to cover the players salary in just TV money alone. They may lose money this year, but it might not be much (5-10 million). The problem is that under the new CBA, they will continue to lose money with getting more revenue through sponsors, luxury boxes, raising ticket prices to compete with the middle ranked ticket prices. Where they get caught is that by doing this, it increases the revenue of the league, which will raise the salary cap, which will raise the minimum salary cap, making the hole deeper and making it harder for teams to cut back on salaries to stay in the black. Teams that are floating below the surface will continue to sink while teams at the top will continue treading water. I will guarantee you will see a couple of years some teams on the brink of shutting down, more owners selling their teams, or threatening to move. 661158[/snapback] No disrespect meant here.......and by reading most of your posts, you are about as pro-Bills, believe everything they say, as they come.......but if you actually believe they will lose money this upcoming season, you are just blindly following everything the Bills say is true. There is no way in hell the Buffalo Bills of the NFL lose money this season. NONE. They aren't even up against the cap. NO WAY IN HELL, any NFL franchise will lose money this upcoming year. Don't be naive. I'm with Ralph. And it may be a bad agreement, but there's no way in hell, the Bills lose money this year.
apuszczalowski Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 No disrespect meant here.......and by reading most of your posts, you are about as pro-Bills, believe everything they say, as they come.......but if you actually believe they will lose money this upcoming season, you are just blindly following everything the Bills say is true. There is no way in hell the Buffalo Bills of the NFL lose money this season. NONE. They aren't even up against the cap. NO WAY IN HELL, any NFL franchise will lose money this upcoming year. Don't be naive. I'm with Ralph. And it may be a bad agreement, but there's no way in hell, the Bills lose money this year. 661203[/snapback] No disrect taken here, and I am not naive and following blindly behind what the team says, but don't be so sure the team is going to make money this year. We have no idea what kind of money the Bills have made previously (its been said around 10-15 million) and with the changes to the CBA and revenue sharing (which none of us know the complete details of), You can not honestly say that there is no way in hell the Bills will not lose money. Maybe I am wrong and Ralph is trying to do some underhanded dealings and trying to get everyone to pony up some more cash for him, but I would think a man at his age, with his money, is not exagerating that this team could be in some financial trouble. And I'm willing to believe him until I am shown evidence that it is not true.
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