slothrop Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I have been doing some reading on Iran and have been amazed as to its culture, politics, and history. It was interesting to find out that a vast percentage (I think 70%) of the population is under 30 years old. Iran's history is also mostly secular until 1979. The recent democratic "uprising" that occurred in the late 90's is still brewing in the hearts and minds of Iran's young citizens. If we bomb the country or invade, do we run the risk of creating citizen support for the mullas? Here is an interesting article I found: Iranian Internet Voices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I have been doing some reading on Iran and have been amazed as to its culture, politics, and history. It was interesting to find out that a vast percentage (I think 70%) of the population is under 30 years old. Iran's history is also mostly secular until 1979. The recent democratic "uprising" that occurred in the late 90's is still brewing in the hearts and minds of Iran's young citizens. If we bomb the country or invade, do we run the risk of creating citizen support for the mullas? Here is an interesting article I found: Iranian Internet Voices. 660029[/snapback] US plans already do account for culture: Iranians, like everyone else, are just misguided Americans who need to be shown the light. One of the reasons, I think, that Iranian population is so young is because so many of the older people were killed in human wave attacks in the Iran-Iraq war. There's probably not a lot of healthy 45 or 50-year old men in Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I have been doing some reading on Iran and have been amazed as to its culture, politics, and history. It was interesting to find out that a vast percentage (I think 70%) of the population is under 30 years old. Iran's history is also mostly secular until 1979. The recent democratic "uprising" that occurred in the late 90's is still brewing in the hearts and minds of Iran's young citizens. If we bomb the country or invade, do we run the risk of creating citizen support for the mullas? Here is an interesting article I found: Iranian Internet Voices. 660029[/snapback] The short answer is yes, definitely. I've commented in other posts, but the Iranian sense of Nationalism will take precedence over any dissatisfaction with the current political set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 US plans already do account for culture: Iranians, like everyone else, are just misguided Americans who need to be shown the light. 660042[/snapback] Cute. They're human f*cking beings, Tom. You'd think they would have the decency to think about how the government that represents them on a global stage through terror and murder and act on it to change things. You'd think. But they don't. And to me, that says a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromagnum Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 The short answer is yes, definitely. I've commented in other posts, but the Iranian sense of Nationalism will take precedence over any dissatisfaction with the current political set up. 660044[/snapback] I remember the iranians rallying in support, during the hostage crisis...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 The short answer is yes, definitely. I've commented in other posts, but the Iranian sense of Nationalism will take precedence over any dissatisfaction with the current political set up. 660044[/snapback] I think you might be wrong here. There are several large factions of the pre-1979 groups that want the US to attack. They do not want Israelie involvement, but do support a US military strike and overthrow of the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I think you might be wrong here. There are several large factions of the pre-1979 groups that want the US to attack. They do not want Israelie involvement, but do support a US military strike and overthrow of the government. 660088[/snapback] If you say so. "Large factions", whatever they are hold little sway within the governance mechanisms of Iran. You are not going to get a "people's revolt" there. Most of the "pre-1979" supporters have emigrated anyway. So, are you advocating the Iraq model here? Install an ex-patriot government? I hope we know better than that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 If you say so. "Large factions", whatever they are hold little sway within the governance mechanisms of Iran. You are not going to get a "people's revolt" there. Most of the "pre-1979" supporters have emigrated anyway. So, are you advocating the Iraq model here? Install an ex-patriot government? I hope we know better than that now. 660096[/snapback] And the reality is, the government there holds very little sway as the country is ruled by the religious leaders and only "allow" the elections as a joke. Those elected have no say, and are just puppets who are ignored when any real decisions are made. They know it and it is not uncommon for them to just quit, after they get tired of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 And the reality is, the government there holds very little sway as the country is ruled by the religious leaders and only "allow" the elections as a joke. Those elected have no say, and are just puppets who are ignored when any real decisions are made. They know it and it is not uncommon for them to just quit, after they get tired of it. 660105[/snapback] And...that's the reality according to Bill? You ever meet a guy who goes by JSP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 And...that's the reality according to Bill? You ever meet a guy who goes by JSP? 660115[/snapback] No that's reality from people I know there. I have met and talked with several folks who still live there and have been here to visit. I have talked with their parents. This is their perspective, and will rely on first hand information, over any third person political briefing anyday. I also have friends who are very close to the whole situation. Again, I wasn't suggesting that we attack, and overthrow. I was implying that is what the people of Iran want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I had to read this chick's graphic novels for a class. They were very interesting and helped me see Iranians in a different light than I had before... http://www.randomhouse.com/pantheon/graphi...s/satrapi2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 No that's reality from people I know there. I have met and talked with several folks who still live there and have been here to visit. I have talked with their parents. This is their perspective, and will rely on first hand information, over any third person political briefing anyday. I also have friends who are very close to the whole situation. Again, I wasn't suggesting that we attack, and overthrow. I was implying that is what the people of Iran want. 660119[/snapback] I don't want to get in a pissing contest with you, but I also communicate regularly with people who live there, and have also talked first hand face to face with people who live there. I haven't spoken to their parents though, I don't think. Maybe that's the deciding factor. My contacts range from people within their "non-existant yes man" government to young college kids with hopes to the future. One can also discuss things where people aren't really aware they are being questioned. Think about that a minute. I also stay in touch with several people within the region with a variety of viewpoints. It's actually pretty interesting to look at an Iranians views on Pakistan next to a Pakistanis views on Iran. You think the Bills are confusing? If I were basing my opinions on a "third party political briefing", I wouldn't be saying the things I am. I thought you might give me more credit than that. Yeah, many people idolize our idea of "freedoms". There are people in this world who absolutely hate us wearing Levis and watching Idol, too. Problem is, in many cases their concepts of our freedoms are very idealistic. Be careful of what you wish for kind of thing. It's surprising to a lot of people that once they have attained a voice they find out it's not as loud as they thought it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 And...that's the reality according to Bill? You ever meet a guy who goes by JSP? 660115[/snapback] Don't drag me into your argument with the midget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Jimmy Carter - whatta President... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Don't drag me into your argument with the midget. 660158[/snapback] Point taken. I'm already arguing with you in another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Point taken. I'm already arguing with you in another thread. 660166[/snapback] I know, I was there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Jimmy Carter - whatta President... 660163[/snapback] Barney Rubble - what an actor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I don't want to get in a pissing contest with you, but I also communicate regularly with people who live there, and have also talked first hand face to face with people who live there. I haven't spoken to their parents though, I don't think. Maybe that's the deciding factor. My contacts range from people within their "non-existant yes man" government to young college kids with hopes to the future. One can also discuss things where people aren't really aware they are being questioned. Think about that a minute. I also stay in touch with several people within the region with a variety of viewpoints. It's actually pretty interesting to look at an Iranians views on Pakistan next to a Pakistanis views on Iran. You think the Bills are confusing? If I were basing my opinions on a "third party political briefing", I wouldn't be saying the things I am. I thought you might give me more credit than that. Yeah, many people idolize our idea of "freedoms". There are people in this world who absolutely hate us wearing Levis and watching Idol, too. Problem is, in many cases their concepts of our freedoms are very idealistic. Be careful of what you wish for kind of thing. It's surprising to a lot of people that once they have attained a voice they find out it's not as loud as they thought it would be. 660139[/snapback] Way to say a whole lot of nothing. You make it out like I asked "questions". Well I didn't these folks (parents) started asking me when the hell the US was going to step in and help the Irani people out. I honestly didn't really know how it was, at least to the people on the ground until the parents of this friend brought it up. They still live. They love their country, but feel that it is not right. They say the young people there deplore the government and speak out all the time. They have rallies, and people just disappear by the hundreds. They believe the "religious" government is having these folks a few at a time, killed and buried in some pretty deep holes. They are at least smart enough not to do the Saddam thing and gas entire populations that protest, but rather have the thug mentality of killing them off a few at a time, hoping to stiffle any revolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Way to say a whole lot of nothing. You make it out like I asked "questions". Well I didn't these folks (parents) started asking me when the hell the US was going to step in and help the Irani people out. I honestly didn't really know how it was, at least to the people on the ground until the parents of this friend brought it up. They still live. They love their country, but feel that it is not right. They say the young people there deplore the government and speak out all the time. They have rallies, and people just disappear by the hundreds. They believe the "religious" government is having these folks a few at a time, killed and buried in some pretty deep holes. They are at least smart enough not to do the Saddam thing and gas entire populations that protest, but rather have the thug mentality of killing them off a few at a time, hoping to stiffle any revolt. 660184[/snapback] As usual, your reading comprehension sucks. The highlighted line confirms that. Not the first time, but whatever. As for the rest of it...so what? I stick to what I posted elsewhere. Shall we wring hands and cry for the oppressed Iranians? Most of the world is oppressed. I'm well aware of their record. The question is what is best in our national interest. A whole lot of nothing? Talk to an Iranian mommy on the train today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadDad Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 US plans already do account for culture: Iranians, like everyone else, are just misguided Americans who need to be shown the light. One of the reasons, I think, that Iranian population is so young is because so many of the older people were killed in human wave attacks in the Iran-Iraq war. There's probably not a lot of healthy 45 or 50-year old men in Iran. 660042[/snapback] The operative words are human wave attacks. They would mass thousands at the front and then just charge the Iraqi's. Saddam couldn't hold them off with conventional weapons so he used chemical weapons. He started the war and then had to resort to chemical weapons to hold off the Iranians. Saddams Iraq being a secular State and the Ayatolla led Iran being the religious State, this was the first time I heard the words and phrases, Jihad, 72 Virgins, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts