plenzmd1 Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 prooly shouldn't start a new thread, but I continue to see the same things over and over in all these threads. Couple of points. #1) Keep seeing posts saying Ralph in way or another should somehow , legally and binding, say the team cannot leave Buffalo, even after a sale or his death.Somebody please tell me why in the world he would do that? Give me one benefit to Ralph that would follow. Only thing I can see is a plunging value to the team, and Ralph or his estate losing all ability to negotiate with the state, county, NFL etc. It just makes no sence from any standpoint. #2) Ralphs wife can inherit the team, with no tax consequences. However,he cannot leave it to his daughter with the same no tax consequence.So, if he leaves to his wife, once she passes, then the big death tax comes in. This is where estate planning comes in. Is a trust the best ave, a sale, etc. Please do not think Ralph as not explored all options on this matter. As I have said, even for the wealhy, an asset worth (on the low end) $600M is nothing to sneeze at, and I am sure his advisors know a bit more than all of us " I slept at a holiday inn express lawyers" on this board. #3) Nobody is sure how the formula for revenue sharing is structured, and as I understand it( and i could certainly be wrong) , that formula is still being worked. IMHO , Ralph is putting on the full court press now in order to make that formula as favorable to the Bills as possible. He knows the other owners, especially the younger ones(although it would be tough to older) prolly look at him as the doddering old man that one shows respect to, but really doesn't listen to his opinions. Therefore, he needs outside help in getting this thing to the most favorable structure for the Bills and his ability to have flexibilty in maximizing the revunue the Bills generate, either yr to yr, or when he sells. #4) I just do not understand how this board flip flops evry month depending on how the wind is blowing. Two months ago, Ralph was cheap SOB who wouldn't hire experienced coaches etc , etc, etc...... Now, we all saying how the league is sticking it to the Bills and how can we possibly compete under this new system, Ralph and the Bills just have no chance. Well, maybe its just me, and maybe i'm wrong, but is there not INCREASED revunue sharing between teams now. I understand that these revunues are now included in the salary cap equation, but i need to see how this affects the actual net profit at the end of the day , after the formula has been worked out, before I say it totally screws the small market teams. #5) Count me in the club that says Raplh can't have it both ways, crying poverty and then leaving revenue opportunities on the table, ala stadium naming rights. Lots of ways to generate revunue that I believe Ralph is not exploring in my mind. How bout tailgates in a family friendly zone, before the game sponserd by the Bills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 good post just to chime in, your point #3 is the key issue and represents the main unknown factor - even Clayton admits this is his article. Ralph has always been a shrewd businessman. Due to his age, he is obviously having to deal now with ageist views. How much he has actually "lost it" due to his age, cannot be accurately assessed by the likes of us (TBD crew and the media etc). What is clear is that Ralph wants to position his business (the Bills) as profitably as he can. How "real" his "concerns" are (in other words, how much is he deliberately crying wolf to use fear and misdirection to position himself , how much is he alerting people to real problems/unfairness/gotchas, how much he is simply losing it cannot be assessed by us) We simply don't know what the CBA actual has set in stone and what is still-to-be-determined. Your point about the naming rights is fair as well. Tell me this: Why are the naming rights of RWS assumed to be so much lower than , say, in DC or Philadelphia? How much does the name actually matter locally (as is assumed) vs nationally? Isn't the NFL a national (even world-wide) product? How much LESS value is a FritoLay Stadium in Buffalo worth than a Honda Stadium in San Francisco?? My opinion is WAAAAYYY too swayed by my emotions. I don't care what Ralph does or says if it helps make the Bills more lucrative and increases the chances of keeping them in Buffalo. Thus, keep on crying wolf Ralphie - you got my support (FWIW ) Go Bills!!! -RnJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I'm sure all Ralph wants, like most Buisnessmen, is for his team to atleast break even which is what he is saying will not happen under the new CBA down the road. He is a passionate owner (I loved hearing him rip on the team when they were 0-4 2 years ago) who doesn't want to watch his child (the Bills) die. He created this team and doesn't want to see something he has devoted most of his life too fall apart. Its not about making tons more money (I'm sure at his age he could care less about making a couple more million), a New Stadium (may not live long enough to see one get completed), or moving the team to a Bigger market. Its about breaking even and not losing money or having his lifes work be destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I'm sure all Ralph wants, like most Buisnessmen, is for his team to atleast break even which is what he is saying will not happen under the new CBA down the road. He is a passionate owner (I loved hearing him rip on the team when they were 0-4 2 years ago) who doesn't want to watch his child (the Bills) die. He created this team and doesn't want to see something he has devoted most of his life too fall apart. Its not about making tons more money (I'm sure at his age he could care less about making a couple more million), a New Stadium (may not live long enough to see one get completed), or moving the team to a Bigger market. Its about breaking even and not losing money or having his lifes work be destroyed. 659945[/snapback] what you say may be true - but (I assume you are not a billionaire?) like the rest of us, we are not incredibly rich and, Ralph is a rare individual. One who has built himself up a tremendous fortune. Your assumption that he "could care less about making more money" MAY be true but I know I can't assess this for one second. To even be in his position, by defintion, makes him different from most people (and believe me most people want more money anyways!) but Ralph has been able to amass a fortune. To assume he doesn't want more is, in my opinion, a stretch. yeh yeh yeh - he already has enough money to buy himself a country (or two) but we can't presume to know what drives him. We simply can't. But - he will certainly like you fully supporting his position. So - please chime away!!! Write your congressman/woman. Like I said, I am not concerned if Ralph is "playing games" with people's heads. I am simply raising - as a possibility - that he IS playing games (to better his position). He's has done it before. He may be being totally forthright about his views on the current situation for small market teams or he may be being the shrewd businessman he has been his entire life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 what you say may be true - but (I assume you are not a billionaire?) like the rest of us, we are not incredibly rich and, Ralph is a rare individual. One who has built himself up a tremendous fortune. Your assumption that he "could care less about making more money" MAY be true but I know I can't assess this for one second. To even be in his position, by defintion, makes him different from most people (and believe me most people want more money anyways!) but Ralph has been able to amass a fortune. To assume he doesn't want more is, in my opinion, a stretch. yeh yeh yeh - he already has enough money to buy himself a country (or two) but we can't presume to know what drives him. We simply can't. But - he will certainly like you fully supporting his position. So - please chime away!!! Write your congressman/woman. Like I said, I am not concerned if Ralph is "playing games" with people's heads. I am simply raising - as a possibility - that he IS playing games (to better his position). He's has done it before. He may be being totally forthright about his views on the current situation for small market teams or he may be being the shrewd businessman he has been his entire life. 659986[/snapback] Pretty sure the team is in the middle of the pack in terms of operating income, not revenue, but income. I do not think breaking even is really a concern, only his ability to spend with the Joneses of the world and still keep the operating margin he has now. What Ralphie boy should be doing is crying for a cap on coaches salaries!!!! But dem der coaches to smart to form a union, so im sure their would be anti trust matters there. To me, that is where the spending ability, and the revunue differance, really shows up. Also, i think back to ole days, ya know the 70s and 80s. How in the hell did Ralph make it back then? I mean i know there was no free agency, and no minimum # one had to spend, but I still wonder what percentage of revenue was spent on players salaries back then. Crimminy, went to plenty o games less than 40000 in the stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Ralph has always been a shrewd businessman. 659927[/snapback] I hate to admit it, but I really know nothing about the Bills owner, other than he owns the Bills and likes tennis. I've looked up his bio on the Bills' site but it only lists his charity work. Can somebody with a little knowledge tell me about some of his business accomplishments outside of football? Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 what you say may be true - but (I assume you are not a billionaire?) like the rest of us, we are not incredibly rich and, Ralph is a rare individual. One who has built himself up a tremendous fortune. Your assumption that he "could care less about making more money" MAY be true but I know I can't assess this for one second. To even be in his position, by defintion, makes him different from most people (and believe me most people want more money anyways!) but Ralph has been able to amass a fortune. To assume he doesn't want more is, in my opinion, a stretch. yeh yeh yeh - he already has enough money to buy himself a country (or two) but we can't presume to know what drives him. We simply can't. But - he will certainly like you fully supporting his position. So - please chime away!!! Write your congressman/woman. Like I said, I am not concerned if Ralph is "playing games" with people's heads. I am simply raising - as a possibility - that he IS playing games (to better his position). He's has done it before. He may be being totally forthright about his views on the current situation for small market teams or he may be being the shrewd businessman he has been his entire life. 659986[/snapback] I'm olny using the assumption that at his age, and with the amount of money he already has, that making a couple million more is not a huge deal for him. He is interested more in having a strong Legacy when he passes and his Legacy will be the Bills. He is also from the old school where not everything was about the money, unlike today where the league is money first quality second. If these new Billionaire owners cared about the quality of their teams over revnue, Why hasn't Snyder had a successful team since being the owner. How come he doesn't have the best GM trying to get the best scouts to build him an unstoppable team? Right now he knows that signing a bunch of Big names, will sell the merchandise and keep the fans interested for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Pretty sure the team is in the middle of the pack in terms of operating income, not revenue, but income. I do not think breaking even is really a concern, only his ability to spend with the Joneses of the world and still keep the operating margin he has now. 660013[/snapback] The problem is that he does not see the team being able to break even in the near future if the new CBA isn't changed to help the small markets a bit more, and the new qualifiers are modified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 #4) I just do not understand how this board flip flops evry month depending on how the wind is blowing. Two months ago, Ralph was cheap SOB who wouldn't hire experienced coaches etc , etc, etc...... The Board doesn't flip-flop, you just read different people..... Now, we all saying how the league is sticking it to the Bills and how can we possibly compete under this new system, Ralph and the Bills just have no chance. Well, maybe its just me, and maybe i'm wrong, but is there not INCREASED revunue sharing between teams now. I understand that these revunues are now included in the salary cap equation, 659845[/snapback] The "new" revenue sharing pool is projected by USA Today to amount to @$10mil per low-revenue team. The gap between high-revenue and low-revenue teams is already around $100million, and could continue to grow. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I hate to admit it, but I really know nothing about the Bills owner, other than he owns the Bills and likes tennis. I've looked up his bio on the Bills' site but it only lists his charity work. Can somebody with a little knowledge tell me about some of his business accomplishments outside of football? Much appreciated. 660034[/snapback] His Dad had a Detroit-based insurance agency and trucking company. Ralph joined the USN in 1941. They bought 4% of the Detriot Lions in 1948. He owns a venture capital equity fund. Owns Wilson Trucking, a multi-state common carrier based in VA - in operation since the '20's. Not to be confused with Wilson Freight Co. The Ins. co. is still in business. AFAIK, his businesses are all on the up-and-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 His Dad had a Detroit-based insurance agency and trucking company. Ralph joined the USN in 1941. They bought 4% of the Detriot Lions in 1948. He owns a venture capital equity fund. Owns Wilson Trucking, a multi-state common carrier based in VA - in operation since the '20's. Not to be confused with Wilson Freight Co. The Ins. co. is still in business. AFAIK, his businesses are all on the up-and-up. 660104[/snapback] Thanks. I have to admit that it suprised me to see that he founded a venture capital fund interested in funding techs Ralph Wilson Equity Fund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Thanks. I have to admit that it suprised me to see that he founded a venture capital fund interested in funding techs Ralph Wilson Equity Fund. 660116[/snapback] Ralph's a throwback, to the times when there were many businessmen who felt their company was a source of civic pride, and was proud that he was able to offer people employment. During the Great Depression, Kellogg went to 4-hour shifts so he could keep folks working, and there is an ancedote about Milton Hershey - when he was building up his manufacturing in Pa., a young engineer informed him that steam equipment could replace 50 workers. Mr. Hershey is reported to have replied. "Good. Go hire me 50 more workers.". Quite unlike the faceless sh*ts that run most corporations these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 The "new" revenue sharing pool is projected by USA Today to amount to @$10mil per low-revenue team. The gap between high-revenue and low-revenue teams is already around $100million, and could continue to grow. JDG 660097[/snapback] I get that, and i guess what i was trying to say, at least some that"gap" will now flow down to some of the lower revunue teams. I also get that more revunues are included now in the players % than in the last CBA. Hers my question...Even if the Bills are paying 65% of gross revenue to player salaries, will the new revunue sharing plan keep operating margins the same on a relative basis. Seems to me the Bills have not had any problem spending to the cap over the last ten yrs, so why would that change now? Lets throw out the coaching thing for a minute, and focus only on player costs. My point is until the final parameters on revunue sharing are in place, we are only speculating and only hearing one side of the story, that being Ralphs, and I think he mat be a bit biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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