Ghost of BiB Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 Welcome to the revolution my friend. I will never, EVER vote for anyone from the two parties ever again. They have repeatedly shown that they do not represent my views, and care for little else than "the Party Line"...660920[/snapback] I have no idea what that even is anymore.
TheMadCap Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 But it's a problem with a lot of causes, some of it the immigration itself leaving fewer people in Mexico and other countries. Their governments are not doing enough and don't have effective solutions, i.e. take all the land from the rich people and give it to the poor people. Try providing quality education. Grow food. Build roads. Produce fresh water. Build homes. But it's a problem of, 'Everything is f--ked up, so where the hell do we start? B/c in order to do this we need to have that, and before we have that we need to do the other...' 660793[/snapback] Which is easier? a. Spending money to fix a problem b. Dumping the problem over the fence on your next door neighbor?
TheMadCap Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 I have no idea what that even is anymore. 660922[/snapback] True indeed. I should rephrase: I have no use for party members who sacrifice the voice of the people to stand with thier party just to make life difficult for the other party...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 True indeed. I should rephrase: I have no use for party members who sacrifice the voice of the people to stand with thier party just to make life difficult for the other party... 660927[/snapback] Now that I can sign up to.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 I have no idea what that even is anymore. 660922[/snapback] I'm pretty sure it's "The other party sucks!" I've just taken to calling our government the "tyrrany of the two-party system."
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 Now that I can sign up to. 660930[/snapback] The more that I am out of Washington, the more I tend to agree with your assessment of party politics. However, I understand why the political game is played the way it is and whining about it doesn't seem to help. The competition thing is good despite the other guy bad rhetoric. And a balance of powers seems to work well when each group has some power, would like to see at least a third party then a coalition could be formed trading one off against the other, but I don't think more parties than that would solve anything, it would just fracture the process further and even less would get done. I know it is frustrating, politics always is, and it is worse when neither side is willing to work with the other and each spends more energy calling the other names. Still what bothers me the most is thinking that corrupt business and lobbyists will still always get their own from whichever party is in power. The only thing that I can think is that every four years the other side has to give up power and switch. But any time you have something predictable, business and other special interests can figure ways to imbed their hooks. Only unpredictable outcomes tend to keep things on the up and up. Good luck beating your heads against the wall, I did it for 14 years plus 4 of college. P.S. Kennedy didn't write the No Child Left Behind idiotic testing reqs. Bush Did, nice blame it on one side. Kennedy's goal was always to try and find ways to provide more funding for education and was willing to go along to an extent with whatever form Bush wanted. Nice try though.
The Avenger Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 Thats how I see it, a cheap labor gift to business....Gas prices going way up, housing way up, insurance forget about it, and wages going down...What the hell is goin on..... 660762[/snapback] While business certainly benefits from being able to pay cheap wages to illegal workers, the consumer also benefits. The same reason we don't end up paying $6 for a head of lettuce because the person picking it works for peanuts is the same reason we happily shop at Wal-Mart and get a $39 DVD player made by Chinese slave labor...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 While business certainly benefits from being able to pay cheap wages to illegal workers, the consumer also benefits. The same reason we don't end up paying $6 for a head of lettuce because the person picking it works for peanuts is the same reason we happily shop at Wal-Mart and get a $39 DVD player made by Chinese slave labor... 661072[/snapback] Face it. Most of us are spoiled punks.
The Avenger Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 I have sat back for the past few weeks now and watched as the insanity has unfolded with all of this immigration nonsense. There are still so many things that I do not understand.for example; why is it so hard for people to understand that it is not imigration that is the problem, it is the ILLEGAL part of the imigration that is the problem? It would be no different if the canadians were flowing over the boarder to our north. First and foremost this has to be stopped, then we can have meaningful disscussion and debate about what to do with those illegal aliens that are already here. Thats why I would like to see the congress settle the boarder security issue first when they return and stop the bleeding. Once this is done, then at least we can get our hands around the problem. If the illegals continue to invade our country the problem will become so huge there will be no way to resolve it. I say build the wall from east to west along the entire boarder to our south. Then the electronic servelence will serve as an excellent backup system to that. The elctronic system alone is a joke, and will never be truely effective. Physical security is the only method. After the wall is complete then the plan that was almost agreed on last week could have a chance to work. The 10 year, 5 year, 2 year plan. Without physical security of our boarders that plan will serve nothing. In addition there should be STRICT new laws made and enforced for those companies who employ ILLEGALS from any country. American citizens deserve to be protected from all enimies, and these ILLEGAL aliens serve as an enemy the way that they are invading our country. Politically, both sides are going to get hurt on this issue. The dems are making fools of themselves by comparing this to the cival rights movement. I have heard many black leaders claim that this is a slap in thier face to make any such comparison. the republicans will get hurt because they will be letting thier base down if they do not address the physical security issue first. Period. With the weak kneed people that we have in washington on both sides of the isle, I see a real train wreck coming. All the while, we continue to have ILLEGAL aliens protesting in our streets holding thier mexican flags and shouting how they are being mistreated and disrespected. Umm, the last time I looked, they came into our country during the dark of night and are staying here illegally. The fact that they were not rounded up and deported should be victory enough for them. Just so I make myself perfectly clear, I FULLY support LEGAL immigration. My familiy got here that way 3 generations ago with little or no money and we have done just fine. 659433[/snapback] It all boils down to how much time, money and resources you want to devote to the problem. Simply building a wall isn't going to solve the problem. It's a nice thought, but its not that easy/simple. If it IS possible to seal the borders, it's going to take a wall, plus a tremendous amount of border patrol/law enforcement/technology resources - a TREMENDOUS amount. So you have to ask yourself how much is it worth it to seal the borders and make sure NOBODY gets in illegally? Part of the answer has to take into account the mitigating effect of the benefits you receive from the current situation. Like it or not, you do get some benefit from illegal workers. Produce and meat costs are lower because illegals do much of the meat packing and produce picking in the country and they work for less than what most Americans would want to do the same job. Illegals take jobs that American DO want and previously made a good living at (construction is a good example). I feel for construction workers who can no longer command the type of living wake they once did due to wage deflation. By the same token, I feel for the auto plant worker out of a job because his plant closed down and moved to Mexico and the software developer whose responsibilities were shifted to a worker in India willing to take 1/5 the pay - both of those are legal (and sometime even encouraged in the name of corporate earnings/profits). Turning a blind eye towards illegal workers is sort of like allowing companies to outsource jobs that can't really be outsourced due to logistics (please don't think I'm advocating either, just trying to make a point). As for why we seem to only half-heartedly go after illegals (other than the resources required and the mitigating benefits noted above), ask yourself why we have ANY laws that aren't strictly enforced - what's the point of having a law if its not enforced? I don't know the answer to that, but I can tell you I've never received a ticket for going 56mph in a 55mph zone.
pdh1 Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 Face it. Most of us are spoiled punks. 661076[/snapback] What is so spoiled about wanting to make descent money and not having to work like a slave? Life is supposed to suck for everyone like it did in the middle ages? Boy, that's wonderful It's not our fault Mexico doesn't educate anyone in their country. No education, no tech skills, non-english speaking = a life of lettuce picking
UConn James Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 My job is can be a backbreaker, but I love it, I started at 12 during summers, and when reagan became pres, I was fulltime and the trade treated you well... I bought into the american pride, still do, although its getting hard to find and buy american products, and the construction trades were solid jobs for americans, that couldnt afford college educations .....Are now being undermined by the country we live in by allowing the illegals to be hired cheaply...I voted for dems, for one thing and that was their stand for the american worker....And now their stand is for poor illegal immigrants... Wheres this third party, cuz I sure is hell aint voting for the repubs... 660895[/snapback] I graduated 2 years ago, and have also been in a specialized construction job (stone walls, which I learned over summers), self-employed, where the pay is all right and it's rewarding work... but times are tough. Gas prices are soaring. I work w/o health insurance --- just can't afford it, so if I blow out a knee or drop a stone... I. Am. Screwed. I could try to go legitimate and get a job with them but in a lot of companies that do this, it's the dirty little secret that they hire illegals who will work for a lot less. Not many people want to pick up and stack 100 pound stones for a living. I've been looking hither and yon for a job that will use my education more (my major is pretty unmarketable here at the present, and I've grown to hate it anyway), and on paper I'm underskilled and overeducated. I'm at a very real crossroads in my life. The Dem platform is one that makes little sense to me. On one hand, they want to protect the American worker with unions, penalizing companies who move offshore, etc. Look specifically at who voted for NAFTA; it was Bill Clinton splitting from his party and Republicans. How successful it's been for businesses, who knows, but it surely hasn't been successful for the people who cross the border. On the other hand, they live or die with the minority vote, so they have to pander on issues such as this. So they end up trying to be all things to all people, just as Kerry came across in '04. If they just took a harder stand combined with the mindset that you have to earn your way, I would have less of a problem when I'm in the voting booth. But they don't so I'm forced to pick and choose. And as much an **** Darin is , I am a little dubious of their education stance, but the Libertarians are the ones who are making the most sense. Face it. Most of us are spoiled punks. 661076[/snapback] I just think we're conditioned to expect too much, and that we don't have to work hard to get it.
Ghost of BiB Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 I just think we're conditioned to expect too much, and that we don't have to work hard to get it. You have a nice way of saying it. I'm not being sarcastic at that, either. There is a much different ethic at play, now.
cromagnum Posted April 13, 2006 Posted April 13, 2006 I also work with no insurance, a few times over the years banged myself up good,recouped for two weeks and found a non-strenous job, home depot,or a construction design shop, hated it but it put food on the table......... I liked the economic times with clinton, but signing the nafta agreement, I disagreed, I didnt want part of my chevy built in mexico... And watching american manufactures move their assembly to mexico pissed me off....Wish, bush, when he is speaking spanish, would say no mas illegal immigrants , but he dont, and the dems coddle the illegals as future voters.....The only politician I liked on this issue is buchanon actualy liked him on other issues as well, but he is just a tv personality now, but I agree with him...I do not see improvements on the way, These are good times or so they say....Should have followed my dream, a tv fishing personality
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 16, 2006 Posted April 16, 2006 I just think we're conditioned to expect too much, and that we don't have to work hard to get it. 661149[/snapback] I wish more people would... Was it Longfellow who said: "If we are to hit the mark, we must aim slightly above it." Not sure?
Adam Posted April 16, 2006 Posted April 16, 2006 Fact is, this is an easy one. They are here illegally, and have no rights.....I see no problem in getting this taken care of.
RayFinkle Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 Quick Question: Has anybody here ever tried to legally become a US Citizen or US Resident?
sweet baboo Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 Quick Question: Has anybody here ever tried to legally become a US Citizen or US Resident? 664049[/snapback] my parents did why?
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 Quick Question: Has anybody here ever tried to legally become a US Citizen or US Resident? 664049[/snapback] My sister-in-law... She is from Mexico and came here legally... Seems she had no problem (it was through marriage and my brother-in-law is VERY well off)... And all this stuff about "community"... My parrents both went to all-Polish schools in Buffalo... They got married in 1960... Their wedding announcement appeared exclusively in a Polish newspaper... Heck, my grandmother went to her grave (died 1998) NEVER saying confession in English... I remember not too long ago when she was tossed into a tizzy because a new priest couldn't understand Polish... I guess that didn't stop her from rattling it off in Polski anyway. We all talk about speaking English and being American... That is all talk, things have ALWAYS been the same as now... Just not on as large a scale.
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