Wacka Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 While this has become a circle jerk over stereos, have either of you had your hearing checked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 While this has become a circle jerk over stereos, have either of you had your hearing checked? 659642[/snapback] You really think we'd drop this kind of green on this stuff if we had issues with our hearing?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Does it go to 11? 659286[/snapback] Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 You really think we'd drop this kind of green on this stuff if we had issues with our hearing?? 659644[/snapback] Let's just say whenever someone hears the vast difference between interconnects, it is time to roll the eyes and throw the audio BS flag. Time and again, double blind studies have shown that to be BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 here is a page that has some ABX data: http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_wire.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Actually, the sound conditions at CES, Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, and the Stereophile shows tends to be pretty mediocre since they're using hotel rooms. I'm a card carrying 'phile with a rig that costs more than both my wife's and my cars put together. I've seen all of the snake oil the high-end can pump out and it's taken years to assemble a system that's truly reference level. The rationale for these knobs is based on a good concept (reduced vibration is always beneficial), but to say that they provide an audible improvement is pretty funny. Here's another good audio scam: Clever Little Clock 659422[/snapback] When we'd set up shop at the Mirage during CES (that dates me a little), they always treated the rooms' walls. We weren't just a sound room, we were a full-blown theater, but the speaker dudes always spent the night mounting crap to the walls and floor. They were even doing it in the temporary rooms on the show floor. They may have stopped in recent years because, let's face it, the audience at CES is 90% consumers walking around saying "Man, if only the old lady would let me get that thar toy." Is the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest the same (new name) for Rocky Mountain Film and Video Expo (or what we used to call the Rocky Mountain Horror Show)? Or is that some other show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Let's just say whenever someone hears the vast difference between interconnects, it is time to roll the eyes and throw the audio BS flag. Time and again, double blind studies have shown that to be BS. 659828[/snapback] Yeah, you engineering / computer types types always fall back on the double blind thing, like we're talking physics or breast size. Sure, if you've got a Best Buy rig, cables won't matter much. If you've got a well balanced, highly resolving system with full-range speakers, they can and do. There are legitimate engineering reasons, too (capacitance, shielding, dialectic, etc.). Cables get a bad rap because most audiophile reviews are of the “Oh my God, the improvement made my jaw drop!” variety. In reality, cable differences are extremely subtle and take a lot of time to recognize. But if you’re familiar with every detail of how a system sounds, the differences can be perceived, much like the way a husband can see a small change in how his wife or kids look that 99% of everyone else would never see. Or a chef can taste a particular spice in food that his customers will never detect. IMO, ABX is too artificial to be of much use. Having a person listen to an unfamiliar system and then make up-or-down responses about sound quality doesn’t prove anything. But if that same listener is intimately familiar with the sound of one particular system (which takes weeks and months to achieve), they can and do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 Yeah, you engineering / computer types types always fall back on the double blind thing, like we're talking physics or breast size. Sure, if you've got a Best Buy rig, cables won't matter much. If you've got a well balanced, highly resolving system with full-range speakers, they can and do. There are legitimate engineering reasons, too (capacitance, shielding, dialectic, etc.). Cables get a bad rap because most audiophile reviews are of the “Oh my God, the improvement made my jaw drop!” variety. In reality, cable differences are extremely subtle and take a lot of time to recognize. But if you’re familiar with every detail of how a system sounds, the differences can be perceived, much like the way a husband can see a small change in how his wife or kids look that 99% of everyone else would never see. Or a chef can taste a particular spice in food that his customers will never detect. IMO, ABX is too artificial to be of much use. Having a person listen to an unfamiliar system and then make up-or-down responses about sound quality doesn’t prove anything. But if that same listener is intimately familiar with the sound of one particular system (which takes weeks and months to achieve), they can and do. 659994[/snapback] does this quote strike a bell? Silversmith silver ICs ($1400)The first Silversmith between my amps and pre was a jaw dropper. The second was not as significant a jump, but all in all, these are terrific cables. Sorry, but many, many ABX tests are done on the listeners own equipment listening to THEIR choice of music. It has been proven again and again and again. Anyone who claims to hear anything different is most likely experiencing the placebo effect. I once had another audiophile tell me 10 years ago how the best sound he ever got out of his system was with "hook-up" wire and it sounded better than his ultra-expensive speaker cable. I'm thinking he had some extra earwax on one of those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Having a person listen to an unfamiliar system and then make up-or-down responses about sound quality doesn’t prove anything. But if that same listener is intimately familiar with the sound of one particular system (which takes weeks and months to achieve), they can and do.659994[/snapback] Along those same lines, when people are crazy enough to ask me about speakers, I often tell them to bring a CD they know inside and out. The speaker folks are always showing off some obscure audio track to show the highs and lows, etc., but it wasn't until one room put on "Joshua Judges Ruth," an album I know very well, that I could hear what I was missing on my speakers at home. Also, the perception that Monster Cables are "all that and a bag of chips" just because they're expensive doesn't help matters, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I'm still listening to the victrola, but I was listening with a couple of owls, a bat and a whale the other day who swear there's a difference. Question: Aren't the connections only as good as the connectors? If someone is going to get all hot and bothered about cables, wouldn't one have to modify the jacks they plug into to really realize a performance increase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Never, ever trust someone named Dieter. 659262[/snapback] Hey, my father in law's name is Dieter. Oh, BTW, I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 does this quote strike a bell?Sorry, but many, many ABX tests are done on the listeners own equipment listening to THEIR choice of music. It has been proven again and again and again. Anyone who claims to hear anything different is most likely experiencing the placebo effect. I once had another audiophile tell me 10 years ago how the best sound he ever got out of his system was with "hook-up" wire and it sounded better than his ultra-expensive speaker cable. I'm thinking he had some extra earwax on one of those days. 660003[/snapback] Hey, the jaw dropper quote's just good marketing--I'll be selling these cables someday to audiofools who speak this lingo and can put this phrase in proper context! And they really are the best cables I've ever used, hands down. You can remain a skeptic all you want. I've had cheap cables that out-perform expensive ones and realize that $$$$ don't guarantee anything. There are a lot of snake oil salesmen in the cable biz. And equipment still makes the biggest impact, no doubt about it. But within my system, I hear difference in cables most of the time (good and bad) and can tweak its performance pretty consistently. Given your agnostic stance, I take it you dabble in the high-end, too. So what's your system made up of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Here's another good audio scam: Clever Little Clock 659422[/snapback] Great s#it you got there, Lurk. But, WTF is this "Clever Little Clock" all about. It HAS to be a scam...right? Is there ANYTHING to it? Nice Steely Dan reference ("Time out of Mind") on the site, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Great s#it you got there, Lurk. But, WTF is this "Clever Little Clock" all about. It HAS to be a scam...right? Is there ANYTHING to it? Nice Steely Dan reference ("Time out of Mind") on the site, though. 660165[/snapback] IMO, this is the type of scam that gives high-end audio a bad name. I can't see how it could ever make a shread of difference. This company also sell another dubious product called Brilliant Pebbles. There are some real dweebs in any hobby who'll buy anything, including stuff like this. Too bad they piss in the punch bowl for everyone else who's into the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I asked an honest question. One of the owls is irritated, the bat is pissed too, but the whale doesn't really care. He uses Bose headphones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I'm still listening to the victrola, but I was listening with a couple of owls, a bat and a whale the other day who swear there's a difference. Question: Aren't the connections only as good as the connectors? If someone is going to get all hot and bothered about cables, wouldn't one have to modify the jacks they plug into to really realize a performance increase? 660040[/snapback] This is really the essense of what Scott and Lurker are saying, I think. You can have great cables, but they require great connectors. And you can have great connectors, but they require great speakers. And you can have great speakers, but they require a great receiver. And you can have a great receiver, but... I think, to most people, being able to tell the difference between generic connectors on a rack at Radio Shack and Monster's Precision 3-way Time Correct windings with separate wire networks is a difficult task, at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 This is really the essense of what Scott and Lurker are saying, I think. You can have great cables, but they require great connectors. And you can have great connectors, but they require great speakers. And you can have great speakers, but they require a great receiver. And you can have a great receiver, but... I think, to most people, being able to tell the difference between generic connectors on a rack at Radio Shack and Monster's Precision 3-way Time Correct windings with separate wire networks is a difficult task, at best. 660202[/snapback] Did you just say something? I don't hear so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I've got a good story that's slightly OT, but along the same lines. At the U of Minnesota, they always brought potential CS grad students around the CS building, including the basement where the server room is. They had this one cabinet that was all black with a ton of blinking lights inside. The tour would go past the window that let the students see inside the server room and would point out the "big server" and that iwas obviously very busy and very powerful because of all of the blinking lights inside. Invariably, the students on the tour were always very impressed. All we did was put some Xmas lights inside the rack and plugged them in. There wasn't even a server in the rack. It impressed them every time though! CW 659386[/snapback] nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd 660235[/snapback] Says the IT guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Says the IT guy. 660242[/snapback] ...with the penguin avatar.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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