Why audiophiles are full of stojan...

[SDS]

well, if it did - you would probably get more dates... but, I'm not talking about THAT knob.

 

"The new knobs are custom made with beech wood and bronze where the bronze is used as the insert to mount to the stem of the volume pot. The beech wood is coated several times with C37 lacquer for best sound as pointed out by Dieter Ennemoser. How can this make a difference??? Well, hearing is believing as we always say. The sound becomes much more open and free flowing with a nice improvement in resolution. Dynamics are better and overall naturalness is improved."

 

http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant..._Code=NOB_C37_C

 

[stuckincincy]

well, if it did  - you would probably get more dates... but, I'm not talking about THAT knob.

 

"The new knobs are custom made with beech wood and bronze where the bronze is used as the insert to mount to the stem of the volume pot. The beech wood is coated several times with C37 lacquer for best sound as pointed out by Dieter Ennemoser. How can this make a difference??? Well, hearing is believing as we always say. The sound becomes much more open and free flowing with a nice improvement in resolution. Dynamics are better and overall naturalness is improved."

 

http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant..._Code=NOB_C37_C

 

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Barnum's influence is august.

[Beerball]

Never, ever trust someone named Dieter.

[IDBillzFan]

Audiophiles are a special kind of freak, and there are varying levels. There are the true philes who really know their schitt about audio, and there are the psuedo-philes, who think they know their schitt about audio because they have 3000 CDs, a book and a meter.

 

In the end, it will always come down to one thing: do you like what you're hearing?

 

The audio rooms at NSCA, CEDIA and CES are crazy because they are optimized for the ideal listening environment. But who ever, ever, ever sits and listens to music such that they must have an ideal listening environment? For many, the music is in the background while they're entertaining company, or cooking dinner, or playing with their children, or sitting in their office. Think Charles Emerson Winchester III, listening to his opera records in a tent in Korea.

 

Those who worry about a knob vibrating have no answer for ambient noise outside of shutting themselves in an listening room, and that's just not realistic.

 

But this type of specsmanship is no different than many high-end amp manufacters who put unneeded weights inside their amps (because people think the more an amp weighs, the better it is) or extra LEDs on the front of their device because people like to see things blinking on their rack.

 

I don't think they're full of schitt as much as they're full of themselves.

 

Wait, maybe there are full of schitt.

[Ramius]

well, if it did  - you would probably get more dates... but, I'm not talking about THAT knob.

 

"The new knobs are custom made with beech wood and bronze where the bronze is used as the insert to mount to the stem of the volume pot. The beech wood is coated several times with C37 lacquer for best sound as pointed out by Dieter Ennemoser. How can this make a difference??? Well, hearing is believing as we always say. The sound becomes much more open and free flowing with a nice improvement in resolution. Dynamics are better and overall naturalness is improved."

 

http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant..._Code=NOB_C37_C

 

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Does it go to 11?

[HopsGuy]

Never, ever trust someone named Dieter.

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Theese ees tha time ohn Schprockets ven vee dahnce.

[Corp000085]

Anyone catch the price on those things? $485 for 1/2 lb of wood. I could make the exact same thing with a 2" dowel rod, toothpick, handsaw, and some elmers glue.

[ajzepp]

I like to take part in practical audiophilia I believe speakers are responsible for the majority of the sound, the gear is the next largest factor, and then you have tweaks that can help milk the last 15-20% out of your rig. I do think that something can be said for the vibration within your gear that can adversely impact the sound, but no way am I dropping four bills on friggin knobs. That being said, there are some products from one of my favorite companies - www.mapleshaderecords.com - that have to do with equipment vibration that I would try in a heartbeat.

 

One product I'm definitely going to try from them is a pair of 2" speaker plinths. The room I have my system in is a concrete slab w/ carpet over it, and concrete is known to wreak havoc on the sound, particularly the bass response. The plinths are NOT cheap, but with a 30-day money back guarantee I need to give it a go. Still not sure how I feel about speaker wires and interconnects, but I KNOW that better quality video cables can make a difference. There was such a change in the pic quality when I added some nicer component cables that I had to recalibrate it after I made the switch.

 

I'm really becoming a believer in speaker/amp synergy.....I think that for me, this is where the main focus should be. I just bought a Butler Audio amp (model 5150); it's a tube/ss hybrid. I'd heard that my particular speakers really liked tubes, but since I use it for both HT and music, I needed the balls of solid state. It's like night and day....a match made in Heaven.

 

That reminds me, SDS, do you feel that those Mirage Omnis will respond to better quality amplification? I'm really hoping they blend well with my mains, cause I'd love to just toss a few of them in back and be done with things for a while. I've got a couple of back-up options in case they stick out like a sore thumb, but I love the idea of how they reproduce sound....

[Fezmid]

or extra LEDs on the front of their device because people like to see things blinking on their rack.

I've got a good story that's slightly OT, but along the same lines.

 

At the U of Minnesota, they always brought potential CS grad students around the CS building, including the basement where the server room is. They had this one cabinet that was all black with a ton of blinking lights inside. The tour would go past the window that let the students see inside the server room and would point out the "big server" and that iwas obviously very busy and very powerful because of all of the blinking lights inside. Invariably, the students on the tour were always very impressed.

 

All we did was put some Xmas lights inside the rack and plugged them in. There wasn't even a server in the rack. It impressed them every time though!

 

CW

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

For many, the music is in the background while they're entertaining company, or cooking dinner, or playing with their children, or sitting in their office...

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...or pounding their wife.

[ajzepp]

...or pounding their wife.

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[SDS]

...or pounding their wife.

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Jason Kidd? Is that you?

[Lurker]

The audio rooms at NSCA, CEDIA and CES are crazy because they are optimized for the ideal listening environment.

659279[/snapback]

 

Actually, the sound conditions at CES, Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, and the Stereophile shows tends to be pretty mediocre since they're using hotel rooms.

 

I'm a card carrying 'phile with a rig that costs more than both my wife's and my cars put together. I've seen all of the snake oil the high-end can pump out and it's taken years to assemble a system that's truly reference level.

 

The rationale for these knobs is based on a good concept (reduced vibration is always beneficial), but to say that they provide an audible improvement is pretty funny.

 

Here's another good audio scam:

 

Clever Little Clock

[ajzepp]

Actually, the sound conditions at CES, Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, and the Stereophile shows tends to be pretty mediocre since they're using hotel rooms.

 

I'm a card carrying 'phile with a rig that costs more than both my wife's and my cars put together.    I've seen all of the snake oil the high-end can pump out and it's taken years to assemble a system that's truly reference level. 

 

The rationale for these knobs is based on a good concept (reduced vibration is always beneficial), but to say that they provide an audible improvement is pretty funny.

 

Here's another good audio scam:

 

Clever Little Clock

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Well come on, man....SPILL IT! Whatcha got????

[Lurker]

Well come on, man....SPILL IT!  Whatcha got????

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I don't know if this link will work, but here goes.

 

My friends drive Lexus'...I put mine in the livingroom and drive a beater Ford.

[ajzepp]

I don't know if this link will work, but here goes.

 

My friends drive Lexus'...I put mine in the livingroom and drive a beater Ford. 

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lol, heck yeah, I'll take the audio rig over the car any day

 

It's not often that someone has gear I've never heard of, but that's what happened when I saw your list of components, lol. So the Andras are your mains? What are the Callistos?? Amps?? And are you absolutely convinced that your cables/interconnects really made a significant difference in the sound?

[Lurker]

lol, heck yeah, I'll take the audio rig over the car any day

 

It's not often that someone has gear I've never heard of, but that's what happened when I saw your list of components, lol. So the Andras  are your mains? What are the Callistos?? Amps?? And are you absolutely convinced that your cables/interconnects really made a significant difference in the sound?

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The Andra's are my only speakers. They weigh 200 lbs each, so I'm not about to swap them around for others very often! The Callisto's a line-stage preamp.

 

Yeah, I think cables make a diference--if your equiment is resolving enough. They won't make a sow's ear sound like a silk purse. But if you do have a silk purse, they can really make a difference.

 

The Butler's a nice amp, BTW. I was considering the 2150 a while back, and even thought about the Monad monoblocks (til' I saw the price).

 

Have you ever traded on Audiogon before? You can pick up some nice used equipment every now and then.

[ajzepp]

The Andra's are my only speakers.  They weigh 200 lbs each, so I'm not about to swap them around for others very often!  The Callisto's a line-stage preamp.

 

Yeah, I think cables make a diference--if your equiment is resolving enough.  They won't make a sow's ear sound like a silk purse.  But if you do have a silk purse, they can really make a difference.

 

The Butler's a nice amp, BTW.  I was considering the 2150 a while back, and even thought about the Monad monoblocks (til' I saw the price). 

 

Have you ever traded on Audiogon before?  You can pick up some nice used equipment every now and then.

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Wow, those are some very cool looking speakers.....I can only imagine how awesome your system sounds I was actually going to ask you about the Monads.....not cause I'm in the market, but because a friend of mine has a high end audio dealership here in Atlanta and he's got some on order. He's got some Avalons for mains and a couple of Oasis monoblocks. He's the guy that introduced me to both DeVore Fidelity (specifically the Super 8s, which I own, and the Silverbacks, which I WANT to own lol) and the Butler gear.

 

And yeah, I really like Audiogon. I was able to move my Magnepans and Outlaw Audio stuff in like a day, lol. I saw a butler 5150 on there for a ridiculous price, but it was already sold. If I'm gonna deal in used gear, that's the only place I'll do it. Screw Ebay.....lol

 

If I messed around with wire quality, do you think I'd need to upgrade both the interconnects and the speaker cables or is one or the other the best place to start?

[Lurker]

If I messed around with wire quality, do you think I'd need to upgrade both the interconnects and the speaker cables or is one or the other the best place to start?

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In my experience, IC's make a bigger impact than speaker cables. Interconnects carry a lower level signal (1-2 volts versus almost 10 times that for speaker cables), so they tend to be more sensitive to geometry, material used, length, shielding for EMI, RFI, etc.

 

In my system, the biggest improvement I got from cables was putting a better IC between my DAC and CD transport. The next biggest gain was between the DAC and preamp. I guess the old garbage in-garbage out principal applies: if you improve the signal quality at the top of the chain, it should extend all the way down throughout the system.

 

Of course, just like on TSW, other folks will tell you the exact opposite is true. That is, if you've got low-quality speaker cables, no matter how much you improve things farther up the chain, you won't be able to hear these gains to their fullest once the signal is on the way to the speakers.

 

Welcome to audio nervosa!

[ajzepp]

In my experience, IC's make a bigger impact than speaker cables.  Interconnects carry a lower level signal (1-2 volts versus almost 10 times that for speaker cables), so they tend to be more sensitive to geometry, material used, length, shielding for EMI, RFI, etc.

 

In my system, the biggest improvement I got from cables was putting a better IC between my DAC and CD transport.  The next biggest gain was between the DAC and preamp.  I guess the old garbage in-garbage out principal applies: if you improve the signal quality at the top of the chain, it should extend all the way down throughout the system.

 

Of course, just like on TSW, other folks will tell you the exact opposite is true.      That is, if you've got low-quality speaker cables, no matter how much you improve things farther up the chain, you won't be able to hear these gains to their fullest once the signal is on the way to the speakers.

 

Welcome to audio nervosa! 

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lol, that test is pretty good

 

I'm really thinking about adding a decent outboard DAC to my system and using my Denon 2900 as a transport. Did you notice a big difference when you went that route? I really want to hit upgrades that will make the greatest impact first, you know? I have a hunch that adding plinths to my speakers will improve things, even though they are sounding quite nice already.

 

I wish I could hear your rig.....