If Vince Young is there at 8, take him

[The_Real]

I have told myself and others that Bills have to address both of the lines before they go for specialty players. However, that line of thinking was based upon the idea that Young wouldn't be there. I know not many people are going to agree with me here but this kid has too much talent to let slide. Let J.P/Holcomb/Nall fight for the back up position and cut the odd man out.

 

We are going to suck this year guys. No matter who we draft in the first round. Yet, I think we can all agree that quarterback is the most important position on any team. What if we could draft the most exciting player in the league? What if on Sunday, we get to watch 'vick' like plays coming from our quarterback? Biggest difference between Vick and Young is that Young can make all the throws with accuracy.

 

Do you guys remember the Rose bowl? That was the best single game I've ever seen a player play. Seriously, he was heroic and fought his way to the national title in a game that no one thought he could win. He made great reads, great passes and great runs. The kid is a freak and probabily the best athlete at the qb position the NFL has ever seen.

 

Bottomline is that he's a winner. Wonderlic sucked, what ever. He tore apart every defense he faced this year either on his feet or with his arm. I realize this is a pipe dream and it probabily won't happen, I just love the idea of his athletic talent on our team.

 

J.P obviously isn't going to get a fair shake from the Bills. K.H is too old. Nall, while impressive in preseason, isn't going to win games the way that Vince Young will. With Young I think you have a player you can strap your offense to and let him lead.

 

I like Vernon Davis. I REALLY like Ngata. However, if the best offensive talent short of Reggie Bush is there at 8, that's my choice.

 

 

Flame away.

 

T_R

[CajunBillsBacker]

To me, it's no question. Sure we have other needs, but Young is a rare talent. Who gives a crap what he scored on the wonderlic. He played against big time college football programs and just destroyed them, including USC, Michigan, OU, Ohio St., ect. I don't buy into the talk that he can't throw either. He has a very live arm and can make the throws. I don't know why his stock has dropped from possibly #1 overall to maybe even out of the top 10, but that's crazy. Especially to even think he could go after Jay Cutler, who is a JP clone.

[Chilly]

Gotta draft my boy!

[Dan]

If Young is so special and all that, why not just trade away 3 or 4 picks and move up to #2 and take him? If we have 10 picks; and we trade 4 picks, that still leaves us with 5 picks after we get Young.

 

We're gonna suck this year, right? So, why do we need any picks in the draft? I say trade them all, if needed. As long as we get Young, all our problems will be solved and we'll see Jordanesque moves for years to come.

[tennesseeboy]

yeah..think how much better we will be with Young getting knocked on his ass instead of JP or Holcomb or Nalls getting knocked on their ass. Given our lack of a defensive line I can see the advantage of Young being able to stand on the sidelines most of the season and be coached while the opposition is running or scoring against us.

 

I like this idea of quietly building a team by drafting the best player available over the next five or six years. Maybe we could, like, cancel next season so that we can go into real rebuilding after another year. We would automatically get next year's first pick that way and would be cooking with gas. Why worry about a defensive line when we have Coy Wire back there knocking those running backs out after a measly ten or fifteen yard game play after play? I'm sold..let's go for Young. And of course a second string punter in the second round.

[Pyrite Gal]

Well you are exactly right on one point. A lot of folks will completely disagree with you about picking Young. I do not disagree with you at all that the Rpse Bowl one of the best (if not the best) performance by one player I have seen in more years of carefully watching football than I want to admit to.

 

However, from those years of watching, one thing I can also flat out guarantee is that this game (even more now than before in the salary cap era) is not a game of great individuals but is a TEAM game.

 

Young can be as good as anyone wants him to be as an individual player, but the real difference will be determined and the Ws will flow our way IF he is a player that is notable not simply due to his individual talents but in fact due to his ability to help/demand that the rest of the team performs better.

 

Can Young do this?

 

Maybe and maybe not.

 

It really depends on how his career develops, what happens to him and the team as they go along, and a bunch of things impossible to predict or even guess whether they will be the case until they happen. This is part of the reason the draft is such a crap shoot. Just because a player is great in college, there are a bunch of things which are totally different than his college play which will conspire to make him great as a pro,

 

The one thing that is probably a certainty in all this is that by drafting yet another QB and suffering the twin penalty that a needed starter on this team at RDT, at SS and a stud on the OL (as none of these players exist on the current roster) will not be acquired in the 1st round, Young is quite likely to start his career with a losing non-competitive ethic as this team leaves a major hole unfilled.

 

Further, by choosing Young, the Bills are forced to cut one of the three QBs we currently have committed a good chunk of cap room to so that by drafting Young the team will be even further constrained and damaged by the cap hit from cutting this player.

 

Drafting Young would still have been a bad idea, but at least a tolerable one if you gave up on the 06 season earlier before further commiting to go in a different direction. However, having signed Nall for three years, drafting Young would not only be a bad way to build a team, but would actually be an intolerably poor choice by us.

[Dan]

yeah..think how much better we will be with Young getting knocked on his ass instead of JP or Holcomb or Nalls getting knocked on their ass.  Given our lack of a defensive line I can see the advantage of Young being able to stand on the sidelines most of the season and be coached while the opposition is running or scoring against us.

 

I like this idea of quietly building a team by drafting the best player available over the next five or six years.  Maybe we could, like, cancel next season so that we can go into real rebuilding after another year.  We would automatically get next year's first pick that way and would be cooking with gas. Why worry about a defensive line when we have Coy Wire back there knocking those running backs out after a measly ten or fifteen yard game play after play?  I'm sold..let's go for Young.  And of course a second string punter in the second round. 

656606[/snapback]

 

But you're missing the true beauty of this. If we take Young and give him a year to learn because he can never get on the field. We'll likely have the first pick in 2007. Then we can draft Quinn (unless someone else wins the Rosebowl next year) and declare Young a bust.

[CajunBillsBacker]

yeah..think how much better we will be with Young getting knocked on his ass instead of JP or Holcomb or Nalls getting knocked on their ass.  Given our lack of a defensive line I can see the advantage of Young being able to stand on the sidelines most of the season and be coached while the opposition is running or scoring against us.

 

I like this idea of quietly building a team by drafting the best player available over the next five or six years.  Maybe we could, like, cancel next season so that we can go into real rebuilding after another year.  We would automatically get next year's first pick that way and would be cooking with gas. Why worry about a defensive line when we have Coy Wire back there knocking those running backs out after a measly ten or fifteen yard game play after play?  I'm sold..let's go for Young.  And of course a second string punter in the second round. 

656606[/snapback]

 

I guess it all depends if you think QB is a pressing need or not. IMO, QB is our biggest need. You can have 5 probowl starting O-lineman with our QB's and we will still finish 6-10 at best. I don't know why some people just don't see QB as a problem, even though it's the most important position on the field.

[The_Real]

yeah..think how much better we will be with Young getting knocked on his ass instead of JP or Holcomb or Nalls getting knocked on their ass.  Given our lack of a defensive line I can see the advantage of Young being able to stand on the sidelines most of the season and be coached while the opposition is running or scoring against us.

 

I like this idea of quietly building a team by drafting the best player available over the next five or six years.  Maybe we could, like, cancel next season so that we can go into real rebuilding after another year.  We would automatically get next year's first pick that way and would be cooking with gas. Why worry about a defensive line when we have Coy Wire back there knocking those running backs out after a measly ten or fifteen yard game play after play?  I'm sold..let's go for Young.  And of course a second string punter in the second round. 

656606[/snapback]

 

Silly response.

 

If this is the deep draft everyone says it is, we are going to get good talent through round 4 or 5. Seriously, look at the draft grades for the top 10 offensive and defensive lineman and you'll see that the #1 DL isn't graded that much higher than the number 8. On the OL, Brick is going to the Saints and Justice isn't #8 worthy. Not to mention the #2-11 OL aren 't that far apart in ranks either.

 

Like I said I'm contradicting myself here because I know how big the holes are on both lines. I've said all along the trenches is where we need to go. However, I just think Vince Young is the 1b talent in the whole draft. He's going to be the improved version of Michael Vick and that's scary.

 

He is a player that can do everything accept take a test. I'd like him on my roster and that's my opinion.

 

T_R

[The_Real]

Well you are exactly right on one point. A lot of folks will completely disagree with you about picking Young.  I do not disagree with you at all that the Rpse Bowl one of the best (if not the best) performance by one player I have seen in more years of carefully watching football than I want to admit to.

 

However, from those years of watching, one thing I can also flat out guarantee is that this game (even more now than before in the salary cap era) is not a game of great individuals but is a TEAM game.

 

Young can be as good as anyone wants him to be as an individual player, but the real difference will be determined and the Ws will flow our way IF he is a player that is notable not simply due to his individual talents but in fact due to his ability to help/demand that the rest of the team performs better.

 

Can Young do this?

 

Maybe and maybe not.

 

It really depends on how his career develops, what happens to him and the team as they go along, and a bunch of things impossible to predict or even guess whether they will be the case until they happen.  This is part of the reason the draft is such a crap shoot.  Just because a player is great in college, there are a bunch of things which are totally different than his college play which will conspire to make him great as a pro,

 

The one thing that is probably a certainty in all this is that by drafting yet another QB and suffering the twin penalty that a needed starter on this team at RDT, at SS and a stud on the OL (as none of these players exist on the current roster) will not be acquired in the 1st round, Young is quite likely to start his career with a losing non-competitive ethic as this team leaves a major hole unfilled.

 

Further, by choosing Young, the Bills are forced to cut one of the three QBs we currently have committed a good chunk of cap room to so that by drafting Young the team will be even further constrained and damaged by the cap hit from cutting this player.

 

Drafting Young would still have been a bad idea, but at least a tolerable one if you gave up on the 06 season earlier before further commiting to go in a different direction. However, having signed Nall for three years, drafting Young would not only be a bad way to build a team, but would actually be an intolerably poor choice by us.

656609[/snapback]

 

 

Bad way to build a team? Yeah.... It's always bad to take elite talent and build around...Predicting the way a qb is going to act or grow as a player is as much a crap shoot as drafting an offensive lineman with the #4 pick and watching him flounder....Cap isn't of the concern of the Bills this year, they already cut their 'star tackle and offensive linemen' losing about 10 million in dead cap space. Not to mention there starting dt and ss. If they were concerned with winning this year they wouldn't have made all of those cuts.

 

 

By taking the best player offensively in the draft you allow yourself to cut the dead wood you have already been 'rumored' to want to do anyways. Losman is a good qb in my opinion, but will never get a fair shake in Buffalo. Nall has done nothing at any level to convince me he can be a great player in this league and he's already had a few seasons to try.

[seq004]

I'd only agree with that as long as we get 2 Rd 1 picks like in 2003 with Willis and JP. I do agree he's a rare talent and if he's still their and Marv can swing a trade to get another team to give up their number 1 and we still get one of the top lineman in the first round. That's alot to ask for but I'm hoping that Marv has stayed quiet in FA for the upcoming draft

[jarthur31]

I have told myself and others that Bills have to address both of the lines before they go for specialty players.  However, that line of thinking was based upon the idea that Young wouldn't be there.  I know not many people are going to agree with me here but this kid has too much talent to let slide.  Let J.P/Holcomb/Nall fight for the back up position and cut the odd man out. 

 

We are going to suck this year guys.  No matter who we draft in the first round.  Yet, I think we can all agree that quarterback is the most important position on any team.  What if we could draft the most exciting player in the league?  What if on Sunday, we get to watch 'vick' like plays coming from our quarterback? Biggest difference between Vick and Young is that Young can make all the throws with accuracy. 

 

Do you guys remember the Rose bowl?  That was the best single game I've ever seen a player play.  Seriously, he was heroic and fought his way to the national title in a game that no one thought he could win.  He made great reads, great passes and great runs.  The kid is a freak and probabily the best athlete at the qb position the NFL has ever seen. 

 

Bottomline is that he's a winner.  Wonderlic sucked, what ever.  He tore apart every defense he faced this year either on his feet or with his arm.  I realize this is a pipe dream and it probabily won't happen, I just love the idea of his athletic talent on our team. 

 

J.P obviously isn't going to get a fair shake from the Bills.  K.H is too old.  Nall, while impressive in preseason, isn't going to win games the way that Vince Young will.  With Young I think you have a player you can strap your offense to and let him lead. 

 

I like Vernon Davis.  I REALLY like Ngata.  However, if the best offensive talent short of Reggie Bush is there at 8, that's my choice. 

Flame away.

 

T_R

656586[/snapback]

 

 

Nope.

 

If the offensive line is greatly improved (via new personnel), we'll win 8 games at least! The D would also have to be able to stop the run primarily from the front four, as well.

 

Getting another QB and no line help and Young will wish he was elsewhere. He would very much suck here and all the fans on this board will proclaim him a total bust and wondering if Marv is TD's long lost clone.

 

Nope. Sorry.

[grampalevy]

This is dumb!!! No way Young Young will fall to #8!!!!

[justnzane]

I guess it all depends if you think QB is a pressing need or not. IMO, QB is our biggest need. You can have 5 probowl starting O-lineman with our QB's and we will still finish 6-10 at best. I don't know why some people just don't see QB as a problem, even though it's the most important position on the field.

656613[/snapback]

 

I'll have to disagree with you here CBB. Yeah, Losman, Holcomb,and Nall have not proven that they can carry a team, but with a first round pick invested in losman, it would be wiser to invest in some beef(regardless of side of the ball) for our 1st pick.

 

Also, If we had 5 probowl lineman, willis would run 1800+ yds that kind of blocking, and whoever the QB may be would have enough time to get rid of the ball. This alone would allow a team to win at least 8 games. Look at every Super Bowl Winning team, and see how many of them had stud offensive lineman(pro bowlers/ hall of famers), even when their offense was weak(ie. Ogden on the Ravens).

[Keuka]

If we could get Young at #8 without trading up we should. We still get to rebuild the lines with the rest of our picks. If anyone doubts Youngs talent or brains they need to watch his last two bowl games. The one two years ago was just like the Rosebowl. He was a man among boys and won the game by force of will. Jim Kelly had that fire and he inspired his teammates to believe they could win every game. That and piss poor offfensive line play has been what has been missing from the Bills teams since the glory days.

I wouldn't trade up but if he happens to fall to us we have to do it. Enough second rate leaders.

[apuszczalowski]

Bad way to build a team?  Yeah.... It's always bad to take elite talent and build around...Predicting the way a qb is going to act or grow as a player is as much a crap shoot as drafting an offensive lineman with the #4 pick and watching him flounder....Cap isn't of the concern of the Bills this year, they already cut their 'star tackle and offensive linemen' losing about 10 million in dead cap space.  Not to mention there starting dt and ss.  If they were concerned with winning this year they wouldn't have made all of those cuts. 

By taking the best player offensively in the draft you allow yourself to cut the dead wood you have already been 'rumored' to want to do anyways.  Losman is a good qb in my opinion, but will never get a fair shake in Buffalo.  Nall has done nothing at any level to convince me he can be a great player in this league and he's already had a few seasons to try.

656627[/snapback]

 

The Bills have the elite talent, now they have to build around them. Is vince Young going to look as good in the NFL with a bunch of guys around that would have barely made his college team trying to block for him?

 

I believe the Bills are now trying to give JP a fair shake and help build up the teams respect for him by having him compete for the starting job and win it. Is Vince Young going to get instant respect cause he lead his team in a college bowl game?

 

QB should be one of last concerns right now cause with some more talent around our QB's we will get a better picture of what we have rught now.

[CajunBillsBacker]

If we could get Young at #8 without trading up we should. We still get to rebuild the lines with the rest of our picks. If anyone doubts Youngs talent or brains they need to watch his last two bowl games. The one two years ago was just like the Rosebowl. He was a man among boys and won the game by force of will. Jim Kelly had that fire and he inspired his teammates to believe they could win every game. That and piss poor offfensive line play has been what has been missing from the Bills teams since the glory days.

I wouldn't trade up but if he happens to fall to us we have to do it. Enough second rate leaders.

656823[/snapback]

 

agreed. I notice a trend is that alot of people here think the #8 pick will fix the o-line. Hell, we had the #4 pick a couple years ago, we did draft a tackle, and it still didnt fix our oline problems.

D'Brick WILL NOT fall to us, and any olineman after that is not worth reaching for at the #8 slot. It's pretty sad that some are willing to reach that high for Winston Justice or Marcus McNeil just because it's o-line help.

If you have a top 10 pick, you take players that can make a difference on your team. IMO there are only a couple guys that can do that, Bush, Leinhart, Young, D'Brick, Williams, and Davis.

We will have 9 more picks to go, 3 of which are on day one. If you look around the league, many solid o-lineman were drafted 2nd round or later. Let's not waste a top 10 pick on a reach on the oline if/when a difference maker is available.

[apuszczalowski]

Yes, lets not waste a pick on reaching for a linemen, lets get one a player from one of the only psoitions that isn't a pressing need!!!!!

 

If you want a Winston or Justice, or Niel, you do something called trade down.

 

QB IS NOT AN IMMEDIATE NEED FOR THIS TEAM

 

unless our GM's name is Tom Donahoe

[CajunBillsBacker]

Yes, lets not waste a pick on reaching for a linemen, lets get one a player from one of the only psoitions that isn't a pressing need!!!!!

 

If you want a Winston or Justice, or Niel, you do something called trade down.

 

QB IS NOT AN IMMEDIATE NEED FOR THIS TEAM

 

unless our GM's name is Tom Donahoe

656944[/snapback]

 

If you like mediocre every year, then yes, keep the same average QB's we have.

[apuszczalowski]

And if you like bringing in supposedly "can't miss" college QB's, don't fix your real problem