HereComesTheReignAgain Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 yea too bad the old idiot wants to trade JP. 652282[/snapback] It seems that most of the people who call Marv an idiot would have a tough time beating Vince Young on a Wonderlick test!
ganesh Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 Moulds has had 10 TDs in the last three years (3.3 per year average). That and the fact I've had it with this topic is the reason I'm actually glad he's gone. We can now talk about something else besides Moulds for a change. Bills fans don't need to pine for players that were looking for the door. 652274[/snapback] Exactly.....Moulds TDs % is way down....Even when he had DB for two years... Plus he failed to protect his young QB last year....Just for a lack of leadership he should be gone.....Thanks for the memories EM...and Good luck with the Houston Texans...
#1TN Bills Fan Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 610 Sports Radio out of Houston is reporting its a 5th round pick. This is so embarrassing. One of the best 3 WR's ever to play in Buffalo who still can play and all we get is a 5th rounder. What a joke. NO ONE IN THE 5TH ROUND IS GOING TO MAKE AN IMPACT ON THIS TEAM LIKE MOULDS WOULD. why can marv see that? oh yea, cuz hes 80. 652184[/snapback] Give me a break! Obviously the Texans were the only team willing to make a trade with us for EM. We all knew that Moulds would not play for us nest season, and a 5th for a 10 year vet that had a subpar season isn't a bad trade. It's a whole lot better than getting nothing for him when we would release him after the draft!
stuckincincy Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 wtf is a troll. and as far as being hurt, nop that wasnt it. just filled with wonderful ideas. 652355[/snapback] Write if you get work.
todd Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 google 652714[/snapback] nah, he could just use a mirror.
taterhill Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 Why can't people understand that Mould's value was not defined by his talent. It was defined by the strength of the teams' bargaining positions. The Bills' position was very weak because everyone knew he would be cut loose at some point. 652214[/snapback] b/c people are stupid....
Kelly the Dog Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 Seems to be that Marv got schooled again in the GM/FA era, this time by Greg Johnson of all people. He said Moulds could go out and make a trade for himself, which was fine, but then he let the press and the speculation and the Moulds team walk all over him. He said nothing, he didn't at least publicly put up any fight, he let Moulds go to the first place that brought him in for the first offer, and not the asking price. Are you telling me that between now and the draft the Texans were going to pull this offer off the table? No way. There is always the chance that this was all we were going to get for him. Frankly, I think with a little card playing the Bills could have easily gotten the 4th but that is just conjecture. We had two more weeks to try to play the game, either behind the scenes or in the press and Marv just acquiesed. I think that he just is a rookie without any experience in this position and it's showing.
CircleTheWagons Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 Seems to be that Marv got schooled again in the GM/FA era, this time by Greg Johnson of all people. He said Moulds could go out and make a trade for himself, which was fine, but then he let the press and the speculation and the Moulds team walk all over him. He said nothing, he didn't at least publicly put up any fight, he let Moulds go to the first place that brought him in for the first offer, and not the asking price. Are you telling me that between now and the draft the Texans were going to pull this offer off the table? No way. There is always the chance that this was all we were going to get for him. Frankly, I think with a little card playing the Bills could have easily gotten the 4th but that is just conjecture. We had two more weeks to try to play the game, either behind the scenes or in the press and Marv just acquiesed. I think that he just is a rookie without any experience in this position and it's showing. 652893[/snapback] Marv's hands were tied. Houston had an agreement in principle with Moulds and I'm confident that his new contract was shopped around to see if there were any other takers. Now Moulds knows that if he sits tight, he's going to Houston, either in a trade or after he's cut. Every other GM is unwilling to pay Houston's $$$, so they're uninterested - Moulds will be a Texan. The 5th rounder is what the Texans are willing to pay to get Moulds in camp earlier and resolve the issue. They easily could have waited and got him for free.
Spikes16 Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 610 Sports Radio out of Houston is reporting its a 5th round pick. This is so embarrassing. One of the best 3 WR's ever to play in Buffalo who still can play and all we get is a 5th rounder. What a joke. NO ONE IN THE 5TH ROUND IS GOING TO MAKE AN IMPACT ON THIS TEAM LIKE MOULDS WOULD. why can marv see that? oh yea, cuz hes 80. 652184[/snapback] STFU stupid. Marv knows what he is doing. He just got something for a WR who would have never played a down for us this season and would have been cut anyways and free to sign with anyone. Yea hes 80, and he forgot more about football than you thought you knew. Give him a chance .
Kelly the Dog Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 Marv's hands were tied. Houston had an agreement in principle with Moulds and I'm confident that his new contract was shopped around to see if there were any other takers. Now Moulds knows that if he sits tight, he's going to Houston, either in a trade or after he's cut. Every other GM is unwilling to pay Houston's $$$, so they're uninterested - Moulds will be a Texan. The 5th rounder is what the Texans are willing to pay to get Moulds in camp earlier and resolve the issue. They easily could have waited and got him for free. 652906[/snapback] Marv allowed his hands to be tied. Marv could have said great, you have an agreement, we're not making the trade. Go ahead, parade him out in public to your fans, get Andre and Carr all excited, develop your offense around him. We'll be waiting for that fourth round pick and talking to other teams about the trade. They don't have to accept that deal. And they could have put pressure on the Texans to make it, not just accept it on the Texans time table. It doesnt even matter if there were other takers. THe Bills didnt have to make the trade now. The pressure would have come from the media and the Texans coaches and their fans to give the 4th and not the 5th. IMO, they would have caved before we needed to, which was the day of the draft. And it would have been different if the Houston offer was huge but it wasnt at all.
apuszczalowski Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 Seems to be that Marv got schooled again in the GM/FA era, this time by Greg Johnson of all people. He said Moulds could go out and make a trade for himself, which was fine, but then he let the press and the speculation and the Moulds team walk all over him. He said nothing, he didn't at least publicly put up any fight, he let Moulds go to the first place that brought him in for the first offer, and not the asking price. Are you telling me that between now and the draft the Texans were going to pull this offer off the table? No way. There is always the chance that this was all we were going to get for him. Frankly, I think with a little card playing the Bills could have easily gotten the 4th but that is just conjecture. We had two more weeks to try to play the game, either behind the scenes or in the press and Marv just acquiesed. I think that he just is a rookie without any experience in this position and it's showing. 652893[/snapback] What otehr Team showed any interest in Moulds to work out a trade? Denver? nope Philly? nope All the interest that was talked about was interset from Moulds to go to one of those teams. Houston wanted tehm and came in and made it happen. Maybe Marv settled on the 5th just to end this distraction and get on with more important things. We get an extra pick(s) (haven't seen official word on what it is or how many), extra cap room, and one less headache. houston gets an older WR that still believes he is one of the best in the league and is going to a contender Now Marv gets atleast another Lotto ticket/bargaining chip (draft pick) to find a replacement for someone to play next year. Atleast Marv didn't hold onto him until no one wanted him and we get stuck with nothing or a lower pick. There is no way any team was going to give us fair value for him, no trade works out that way.
slothrop Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 Marv allowed his hands to be tied. Marv could have said great, you have an agreement, we're not making the trade. 652917[/snapback] What is the "or else" threat Marv could have made? The answer is nothing. The Bills would be forced to cut EM - everyone knew that was going to happen. So the Texans would wait back and say - just cut him then. Again, the trade was not dictated on EM's talent. It was defined by the relative strength in bargaining positions. The Bills had no strength for a variety of factors including the new CBA which limits how you can treat a player with the new "T.O. clause" and his current contract. That is just the reality of what dictated EM's trade value.
CircleTheWagons Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 Marv allowed his hands to be tied. Marv could have said great, you have an agreement, we're not making the trade. Go ahead, parade him out in public to your fans, get Andre and Carr all excited, develop your offense around him. We'll be waiting for that fourth round pick and talking to other teams about the trade. They don't have to accept that deal. And they could have put pressure on the Texans to make it, not just accept it on the Texans time table. It doesnt even matter if there were other takers. THe Bills didnt have to make the trade now. The pressure would have come from the media and the Texans coaches and their fans to give the 4th and not the 5th. IMO, they would have caved before we needed to, which was the day of the draft. 652917[/snapback] I guess we will have to disagree. The Texans knew they were getting Moulds, it was just a matter of timing. If I was a Texans fan, I would be choked that we gave up a draft pick for a player we could have in a few weeks for free. They are also in need of all their picks.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 What otehr Team showed any interest in Moulds to work out a trade? Denver? nope Philly? nope All the interest that was talked about was interset from Moulds to go to one of those teams. Houston wanted tehm and came in and made it happen. Maybe Marv settled on the 5th just to end this distraction and get on with more important things. We get an extra pick(s) (haven't seen official word on what it is or how many), extra cap room, and one less headache. houston gets an older WR that still believes he is one of the best in the league and is going to a contender Now Marv gets atleast another Lotto ticket/bargaining chip (draft pick) to find a replacement for someone to play next year. Atleast Marv didn't hold onto him until no one wanted him and we get stuck with nothing or a lower pick. There is no way any team was going to give us fair value for him, no trade works out that way. 652935[/snapback] You may have hated TD but he knew how to play the game. Marv does not know how to play yet, IMO. He really did let the Texans call all the shots, at their timetable, for their price, without a fight. He put NO pressure on them. That is how you make deals and negotiate.
taterhill Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 5th rounder for someone we were going to cut..i will take it
Kelly the Dog Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 What is the "or else" threat Marv could have made? The answer is nothing. The Bills would be forced to cut EM - everyone knew that was going to happen. So the Texans would wait back and say - just cut him then. Again, the trade was not dictated on EM's talent. It was defined by the relative strength in bargaining positions. The Bills had no strength for a variety of factors including the new CBA which limits how you can treat a player with the new "T.O. clause" and his current contract. That is just the reality of what dictated EM's trade value. 652937[/snapback] The or else is we're just crazy enough to keep him. We're just crazy enough to keep him until September. We're just crazy enough to trade him to someone else for less. I am not saying they COULD have gotten more for him, but I do think the Texans showed their hand too and were not put in ANY position of having to make a hard choice. All their choices were easy and its because of the way Marv allowed them to be easy. I think if the Bills let the Texans squirm a bit and stew and got their fans and coaches and players starting to think the Bills might just screw us, they could have or would have caved.
slothrop Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 He put NO pressure on them. 652944[/snapback] Again, how could he place any pressure on them? He had no leverage. It simply did not exist and everyone knew it. It would be analagous to bluffing in poker but your hand is projected onto a large projection screen for the whole table to look at. My guess is the smart thing to do is fold and get out while you can.
tennesseeboy Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 Because thats the logical reason. And we all know that logic has no place on a board like this. Do you know how many hugely successful rants have been done in by logic and facts? Therefore its best to ignore them. 652295[/snapback] The Bills are at fault for their own bargaining position. They didn't have what negotiators call a BATNA, or Best Alternative to a Negotiating Agreement. They made it clear they were NOT seriously considering keeping him and the teams wanting him were looking for an in before he was released by the Bills. The Bills should have continued negotiations with the idea that unless they got a third round or better pick they would keep him for a year even at the old contract, and been vocal about that option. Hence we have a BATNA where we would walk away and keep an All Pro receiver for one more year. I believe we would have ended up with a third round or better. Instead we made it quite clear that if they waited EM would be released and there would be nothing to give up other than the cost of signing EM. We were lucky to get a fifth under the circumstances that the Bills themselves created.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 Again, how could he place any pressure on them? He had no leverage. It simply did not exist and everyone knew it. It would be analagous to bluffing in poker but your hand is projected onto a large projection screen for the whole table to look at. My guess is the smart thing to do is fold and get out while you can. 652955[/snapback] That's easy. Wait two weeks. He knows he's going to cave in at the last second and agree to the 5th if the Texans don't go for the 4th. But the Texans don't know that. And the Bills just say we want that fourth. In the next week, the fans and press and pressure starts to change from the Bills to the Texans. The Bills say, we're just not budging. This is what he is worth. The Texans are the team that wants him, and it would have turned into a game of chicken. At THAT point, maybe the time for Marv to blink and accept the 5th. But he never put any pressure on the Texans to make the tough choice. They were going after him. I really doubt the Bills would have had to blink first.
dave mcbride Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 The or else is we're just crazy enough to keep him. We're just crazy enough to keep him until September. We're just crazy enough to trade him to someone else for less. I am not saying they COULD have gotten more for him, but I do think the Texans showed their hand too and were not put in ANY position of having to make a hard choice. All their choices were easy and its because of the way Marv allowed them to be easy. I think if the Bills let the Texans squirm a bit and stew and got their fans and coaches and players starting to think the Bills might just screw us, they could have or would have caved. 652953[/snapback] a couple of things: i'm of a mind that the difference between a 4th and 5th rounder is pretty negligible; in the grand scheme of things, both end up being practically worthless more often than not. that said, i'd take a fourth over a fifth. secondly, you need to compare moulds to the two guys he most resembled on this springs WR job market: keyshawn johnson and TO. neither the cowboys nor the eagles received so much as a seventh for these guys. moreover, watch what happens with javon walker -- we'll see if the packers get much for a young guy who clearly has the talent to be a good starter in the league.
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