dave mcbride Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 His play approaches average. Although he was on the right side, Jonas Jennings as a rookie played better than Gandy in 05. Why you would make such an absolute statement Dave, is beyond me. 651617[/snapback] i don't care where he came from and how he got here. he played pretty well last year, which i can attest to with my own eyes. he was at least as good as jennings was in 04, and he stayed healthy. the problem with the line last year was having essentially a rookie take over at RT, a perenially weak center, a subpar villarreal, and a terrible player at left guard. i can't recall the last time a LT came into the league and played better than competently in his first season. boselli? ogden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Maybe, but you could solve the OG problem by drafting someone like Justice and moving Gandy back to his natural OG position. 651618[/snapback] but what if gandy is a pretty good tackle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 If you're going to go by the "first year" logic, then you might as well not draft anybody since 95% of rookies won't make an impact right away. Gandy is in the bottom half of NFL left tackles and if he can be upgraded, it would be prudent to do so. The NFL is about matchups and creating double teams from the opponents and single-teaming for your own team when possible, and if the Bills can get someone in at LT that can eliminate the rush without double team help, then that frees up a player on offense to do something else, which is huge. Players that can create double teams from the opponents, and players that can do their jobs without help, are valuable in this league. Yes, the rest of the line besides Peters is a mess, and I do expect several offensive linemen to be picked in this draft, but an OT absolutely can be used as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 If you're going to go by the "first year" logic, then you might as well not draft anybody since 95% of rookies won't make an impact right away. Gandy is in the bottom half of NFL left tackles and if he can be upgraded, it would be prudent to do so. The NFL is about matchups and creating double teams from the opponents and single-teaming for your own team when possible, and if the Bills can get someone in at LT that can eliminate the rush without double team help, then that frees up a player on offense to do something else, which is huge. Players that can create double teams from the opponents, and players that can do their jobs without help, are valuable in this league. Yes, the rest of the line besides Peters is a mess, and I do expect several offensive linemen to be picked in this draft, but an OT absolutely can be used as well. 651643[/snapback] why do you think gandy is in the bottom half of the league? which tackles are better than him? which ones are worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasker Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Absolutely right! We need Sooo much help, we need to trade down, and gain as much as we can in doing so! 651555[/snapback] This might sound like an overly simple thing to say, but it is being assumed by what you just said, and might not be true: Trading down because we need help is only a good idea if we get more help by trading down. Granted we have a few more more spots in the starting lineup that could be improved by B+ players, and possibly by B- players. If you can give up an A to get multiple B+ players, that's great (or another A- and something else), but giving it up for B- players will help make us a B- team no matter how many we get. So trading down is fine if we find a deal that allows us to get more value. I am very very open to trading down, but only if there is a team that really wants to move up enough to make it worth our while. This could happen if one of the three QBs falls to #8, and someone wants to leapfrog to get them. But I don't think Cleveland would give us enough value to move up and get Ngata, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Looking at our argument over the offensive line (that at least some of the linemen in addition to Peters are pretty good.) just underlines our problem at DT. We have ONE free agent to fill two positions. Whoever we draft at DT WILL definitely be starting on our defensive line in a critical spot. Strong argument for Ngata at 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 DT and guard are far bigger need areas than OT, which is pretty well set right now. gandy and peters are going to perform better next year than anyone the bills draft at the position. 651609[/snapback] On what basis ? Gandy proved that he is a avg LT, who doesn't make mistakes but cannot over power anyone..... As far as Peters, the last I checked the stats, he helped in 1 100 yard rushing game in about 10 starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 On what basis ? Gandy proved that he is a avg LT, who doesn't make mistakesbut cannot over power anyone..... As far as Peters, the last I checked the stats, he helped in 1 100 yard rushing game in about 10 starts. 651662[/snapback] with regard to peters, pretty much everyone in the bills organization whose voice matters (especially mcnally) thinks the guy is a star in the making. as for gandy, did you watch the games? especially when holcomb was in there, he looked like a better than average LT who held his own in the passing game and didn't make mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 why do you think gandy is in the bottom half of the league? which tackles are better than him? which ones are worse? 651650[/snapback] Do you really expect me to spend the time to break that down for you? Look at the NFL rosters--I'm sure you can figure out for yourself whom I would take over Gandy. There are two things Gandy can't do, single-team against the elite pass rushers, and overpower someone in the running game. There are at least two tackles that will be available in this draft that can do those things in Justice and McNeill. If the Bills find a way to add either of those guys to this roster, they would've made a good move. I don't know how arguable that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Give it up. People are going to compare Justice to Mike Williams because of the way the Bills fared in taking an OL 4th overall. It has nothing to do w/ the two guys being similar in their style of play (they are not), but you do have to admit the comments are kinda neat, aren't they? 651572[/snapback] The similarity is that both guys played a position in college (RT) that does not justify top 10 money in the NFL. However, the picks are being justified since the players are good enough to switch to teh left side to play a very difficult position with absolutely no experience at LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 i don't care where he came from and how he got here. he played pretty well last year, which i can attest to with my own eyes. he was at least as good as jennings was in 04, and he stayed healthy. the problem with the line last year was having essentially a rookie take over at RT, a perenially weak center, a subpar villarreal, and a terrible player at left guard. i can't recall the last time a LT came into the league and played better than competently in his first season. boselli? ogden? 651634[/snapback] as good as Ogden became, he played G as a rookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Do you really expect me to spend the time to break that down for you? Look at the NFL rosters--I'm sure you can figure out for yourself whom I would take over Gandy. There are two things Gandy can't do, single-team against the elite pass rushers, and overpower someone in the running game. There are at least two tackles that will be available in this draft that can do those things in Justice and McNeill. If the Bills find a way to add either of those guys to this roster, they would've made a good move. I don't know how arguable that is. 651677[/snapback] what have either done on a football field to show that they can handle elite NFL rushers from the LT position? Justice has to switch positions to start with and NFL speed is far different than a college player coming from the right side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 what have either done on a football field to show that they can handle elite NFL rushers from the LT position? Justice has to switch positions to start with and NFL speed is far different than a college player coming from the right side. 651695[/snapback] All college players are unproven, no? Justice and McNeill both showed the potential to be elite offensive tackles in college, and if the Bills draft either one of them, it will be a good pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Jokeman, after his performance @ USC's pro day, I don't see a scenario where we'd be able to trade down to draft Justice, if that's the plan. We'd have to stay @ 8, more than likely. Justice has impressed me, but I still don't want him that high. 651474[/snapback] Someone brought up a trade down scenario with the Rams (to pick 11) that I liked of course they choose us taking Bunkley there, which I really like as he's my 2nd choice if can't land Huff. I think Justice could be available with pick 11 too. Yet like you I think taking him that high isn't value. As I can't justify taking a RT in the 1st Round with the 8th (or 11th) pick even if Justice proves to be as good as Willie Anderson, arguably the best RT in the NFL right now (I know I know Anderson was taken 10th overall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 i think the best shot of us trading down will come if we have a QB sitting there at the 8th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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