Why would Ralph Wilson spend money...

[MarkyMannn]

Could the fact that Marv jettisoned old veterans be seen as an indication that they are actually thinking of the long term health of the Bills? These moves are a good thing to one who wants the Bills to build a strong, young nucleus.

650361[/snapback]

The big problem I have with this logic, building for tomorrow, I'm PAYING today for season tickets. I want to see some commitment to winning. All I see is vets cut, Moulds going, maybe JP, what's left??? 1-3 wins next year could be a real possibility because there is no new talent coming in.

 

Before everyone puts RW on a pedestal, talk to fans that go back into the 70's and 80's. Ralph IS cheap, and in those years we consistently lost unless some fluke of events led us to some momentary success. He would not spend for winning then. Now in the late 80's and early-mid 90's, perhaps RW's mindset was that he has made a ton of $$$ in my lifetime, and I'm willing to spend now for a winner. Today, with the new higher cap in place, Ralph is cheaping out, and saving money for his heirs, and Marv is helping him execute it

[Bill from NYC]

The big problem I have with this logic, building for tomorrow, I'm PAYING today for season tickets.  I want to see some commitment to winning.  All I see is vets cut, Moulds going, maybe JP, what's left???  1-3 wins next year could be a real possibility because there is no new talent coming in.

 

Before everyone puts RW on a pedestal, talk to fans that go back into the 70's and 80's.  Ralph IS cheap, and in those years we consistently lost unless some fluke of events led us to some momentary success.  He would not spend for winning then.  Now in the late 80's and early-mid 90's, perhaps RW's mindset was that he has made a ton of $$$ in my lifetime, and I'm willing to spend now for a winner.  Today, with the new higher cap in place, Ralph is cheaping out, and saving money for his heirs, and Marv is helping him execute it

650672[/snapback]

 

I see your point. Because of where I live, I can only afford 1 game per season (which costs me close to the price of a season ticket).

The thing is, this team is currently bad. Some of the reasons for this are nobody's fault (injury to TKO), some are due to the stupidity of moves by TD (Mike Williams, Roscoe Parrish, the entire JP fiasco, etc.).

 

I would have liked RW to spend 50 million dollars on Hutch (if he would have taken it), but I am not entirely sure how many other useful UFAs were out there that we should have used big time cap space upon.

 

I think that the test will be in 07. Then, especially if Moulds is traded, the Bills will be sitting on a ton of cap space (and probably more early draft picks). I am guessing/hoping that IF the Bills do things right in April, and IF Nall or JP is any good, they will make a move on the AFC East.

[Fan in San Diego]

...to get into a game he thinks has been rigged against him?

 

His strong feelings of discontent toward his fellow owners reflect his sense of their betrayal.

 

Those remarks after the last CBA was reached, were those of a confused man.  Not a man confused by the documents placed before him and what their contents meant to his franchise.  No, those were the remarks of a man confused by how his opinions and leadership among his peers were no longer considered vital. His ambition to be recognised as one of the fathers of the NFL has been replaced by scorn, ridicule, and a diminished role in directing the league's future.

 

This same harsh opinion of Ralph's value to the league is reflected in his inability to secure the HOF in recent years.  His opportunities to stand in Canton, basking in the recognition of a grateful NFL grow less and less.  This has to be another painful disappointment to a man who considers himself one of the league's founders and an architect of it's success. Such a man deserves more than post-humous honors and respectful eulogies. Yet, he may have to accept such a fate.

 

How does this affect the Bills?

 

In response to being cast aside, Ralph may have put his franchise on auto-pilot for his remaining years as it's owner. 

 

HOF coach and Bills' icon Marv Levy may be less the GM of an NFL team as he is the care-taker of an important part of Ralph's estate.  Ralph's too old and too smart to squander any more of his children's money chasing SB trophies.  Donahoe failed him in what could have been his last, hard run at it.  Now, what's left?  Could a championship rescue his legacy? Perhaps, but it's too late for that now, especially under the perceived circumstances.

 

So, if Ralph's current perception is that the cards have been stacked against him, it follows that his best move is to fold.

 

If Ralph has come to grips with that, then the fans must also.

650312[/snapback]

 

Did you write the DaVinci code book ? good stuff !

[Mark VI]

...to get into a game he thinks has been rigged against him?

 

His strong feelings of discontent toward his fellow owners reflect his sense of their betrayal.

 

Those remarks after the last CBA was reached, were those of a confused man.  Not a man confused by the documents placed before him and what their contents meant to his franchise.  No, those were the remarks of a man confused by how his opinions and leadership among his peers were no longer considered vital. His ambition to be recognised as one of the fathers of the NFL has been replaced by scorn, ridicule, and a diminished role in directing the league's future.

 

This same harsh opinion of Ralph's value to the league is reflected in his inability to secure the HOF in recent years.  His opportunities to stand in Canton, basking in the recognition of a grateful NFL grow less and less.  This has to be another painful disappointment to a man who considers himself one of the league's founders and an architect of it's success. Such a man deserves more than post-humous honors and respectful eulogies. Yet, he may have to accept such a fate.

 

How does this affect the Bills?

 

In response to being cast aside, Ralph may have put his franchise on auto-pilot for his remaining years as it's owner. 

 

HOF coach and Bills' icon Marv Levy may be less the GM of an NFL team as he is the care-taker of an important part of Ralph's estate.  Ralph's too old and too smart to squander any more of his children's money chasing SB trophies.  Donahoe failed him in what could have been his last, hard run at it.  Now, what's left?  Could a championship rescue his legacy? Perhaps, but it's too late for that now, especially under the perceived circumstances.

 

So, if Ralph's current perception is that the cards have been stacked against him, it follows that his best move is to fold.

 

If Ralph has come to grips with that, then the fans must also.

650312[/snapback]

 

Speculation, based on a legacy/ego angle over actual understanding of the CBA.

 

The % that the small market teams will receive from the big market teams is erased over the the 6 years of the current agreement with the increase in the player salary cap. So this is basically a 6 year extension of keeping small market teams on life support instead of addressing the issue long term.

 

The agreement was garbage for the small market teams.

 

That Mike Brown and Ralph didn't fall into line like Wayne Weaver and other gutless lemmings doesn't make him senile. His appearence in a news conference doesn't influence my thinking whatsoever, like the small of mind. Ralph knows he, Brown and other small market owners get another 6 years to barely make ends meet, instead of solving the problem long term. By then, Ralph will probably be gone and a new owner will be in place.

 

I've been going to the games since the 60's so the history lesson of Ralph and his finances are not needed.

 

I could have folded like many of my friends, who tell me yearly the Bills are leaving. The Bills have a cheap buyout with the county they can exercise at any time and bolt. They could have done this for the last several years but yet, here they are.

 

I'll enjoy the Bills for the next 6 years and then observe the next CBA. Why worry ? It's something we can't control.

 

Can't wait for the Draft and the 2006 season.

[34-78-83]

...to get into a game he thinks has been rigged against him?

 

His strong feelings of discontent toward his fellow owners reflect his sense of their betrayal.

 

Those remarks after the last CBA was reached, were those of a confused man.  Not a man confused by the documents placed before him and what their contents meant to his franchise.  No, those were the remarks of a man confused by how his opinions and leadership among his peers were no longer considered vital. His ambition to be recognised as one of the fathers of the NFL has been replaced by scorn, ridicule, and a diminished role in directing the league's future.

 

This same harsh opinion of Ralph's value to the league is reflected in his inability to secure the HOF in recent years.  His opportunities to stand in Canton, basking in the recognition of a grateful NFL grow less and less.  This has to be another painful disappointment to a man who considers himself one of the league's founders and an architect of it's success. Such a man deserves more than post-humous honors and respectful eulogies. Yet, he may have to accept such a fate.

 

How does this affect the Bills?

 

In response to being cast aside, Ralph may have put his franchise on auto-pilot for his remaining years as it's owner. 

 

HOF coach and Bills' icon Marv Levy may be less the GM of an NFL team as he is the care-taker of an important part of Ralph's estate.  Ralph's too old and too smart to squander any more of his children's money chasing SB trophies.  Donahoe failed him in what could have been his last, hard run at it.  Now, what's left?  Could a championship rescue his legacy? Perhaps, but it's too late for that now, especially under the perceived circumstances.

 

So, if Ralph's current perception is that the cards have been stacked against him, it follows that his best move is to fold.

 

If Ralph has come to grips with that, then the fans must also.

650312[/snapback]

 

Your points seem to have come with a lot of thought, whether they are realistic or not. I think there would be a lot fewer Bills supporters around here if many of us agreed with this this theory. Certainly if I agreed with you I wouldn't waste my time being a fan of the team.

[Bill from NYC]

  Ralph knows he, Brown and other small market owners get another 6 years to barely make ends meet, instead of solving the problem long term. By then, Ralph will probably be gone and a new owner will be in place.

651339[/snapback]

 

Good post as usual Mark, but I have a question about the above.

 

The way I understand things, Mr. Wilson paid $25,000 for the Bils in 1959 or 1960, and the franchise is now worth one half of a billion dollars.

If this is true, "making ends meet" would be quite a stretch from where I sit. Even if he takes a loss each year (which I strongly doubt), that is a ton of equity.

 

This equity could certainly be used to improve the team (especially with the anticipated 07 cap space) and perhaps earn Mr. Wilson even more money (increased ticket sales with a better product) and even more equity to boot.

 

I don't pretend to know as much about this as you, BiDD, and many others here, but again, the "making ends meet" thing is hard for me to relate to about a man sitting on a half billion, and God knows what else.

 

I hope that my question makes sense.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

Speculation, based on a legacy/ego angle over actual understanding of the CBA.

651339[/snapback]

 

I wasn't making a case, one way or the other, for how the CBA treats small market teams. That wasn't the point of the post.

 

You're correct in saying this is all speculation. Of course it is. I don't know Ralph Wilson personally, so I have no idea how recent events have affected him.

 

I was exploring the possibility of what Ralph's reaction could be to his diminished role in league affairs and the realization that he is not perceived as a patriarch of professional football.

 

He may have never viewed himself as such.

He may still see himself as such.

Or he may have aspired to be held in that regard, and now faces the stark reality that he's not held in such high-esteem.

 

That is the pathos I see in his situation, real or imagined.

It's a sad story that I put into the context of how it affects the team going forward.

 

All speculation. Isn't that what we do best?

Must it be contained to FA signings? Draft picks? Xs and Os?

[Guest BackInDaDay]

I think there would be a lot fewer Bills supporters around here if many of us agreed with this this theory. Certainly if I agreed with you I wouldn't waste my time being a fan of the team.

651373[/snapback]

 

I love football. Played it and coached it. The Bills were the team I rooted for in the AFL, and they're the team I root for in the NFL.

 

Being a fan of any pro team requires a good set of blinders.

 

I've learned through the years that a pre-requisite for most Bills fans is a strong belief that things will get better. We're not ignorant, we're hopeful.

I think most Bills fans have realistic expectations. We only hope they're exceeded.

 

Why should the realization that Ralph Wilson may not have been doing everything within his powers to build championship teams the last 42 years keep me from rooting for his team? It's just part of the equation that keeps my expectations for the Bills realistic. It doesn't make him a bad guy, just a guy whose priorities haven't always aligned with the fans.

[34-78-83]

Why should the realization that Ralph Wilson may not have been doing everything within his powers to build championship teams the last 42 years keep me from rooting for his team?  It's just part of the equation that keeps my expectations for the Bills realistic.  It doesn't make him a bad guy, just a guy whose priorities haven't always aligned with the fans.

651493[/snapback]

 

When you put it that way I think I am grasping your overall point much better. I guess I just feel there was a time when Ralph went from a penny pinching miser to an owner who was willing to make some sacrifices to help his franchise succeed. He has shown since the Polian era to be willing to spend money when he feels it is the right thing. There are plenty of examples of that. He will never compare to the Joneses (pun intended) of the league who have 10 times the resources and side money to put back into the team, but lucky for us, good NFL teams generally aren't built just by throwing cash at a bunch of high priced players.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

When you put it that way I think I am grasping your overall point much better. I guess I just feel there was a time when Ralph went from a penny pinching miser to an owner who was willing to make some sacrifices to help his franchise succeed. He has shown since the Polian era to be willing to spend money when he feels it is the right thing. There are plenty of examples of that. He will never compare to the Joneses (pun intended) of the league who have 10 times the resources and side money to put back into the team, but lucky for us, good NFL teams generally aren't built just by throwing cash at a bunch of high priced players.

651637[/snapback]

I agree 100%. I'm was just speculating that under the circumstances given in my original post, it wouldn't suprise me to see Ralph retreating back into 'isolationist Ralph" - choosing to participate less in an environment not of his liking.

[jester43]

After hearubg Ralph's assessment of things in the CBA negotiation and watching and listening to him over the year's my sense of how he feels about this like yours is more based on my own feeling and conjectures rather than his since I do not know him intimately at all (I assume you suffer from missing this critical element for formulating a real opinion as I do, but if you do know him well my apologies).

 

Yet, as fans of this business within which he has placed himself in the public sphere he has invited each of us to have our own fact-free ioinions about what he thinks and feels even if they are based on an incomplete view of all that went on and selected quotes from him chosen by the media. If he doesn't like your or my false conclusions he should get out of this public business.

 

My sense from listening to an elderly Ralph recently and watching him over the years are:

 

1.  He still seems to get real value out of being a Bills owner and trying hard.

 

Despite any confusion and consternation with theCBA, we have seem this commitment most recently in his firing of TD, hiring of his buddy Marv, attempt to hang onto MM, but letting him go when he wanted to go.

 

His actions in these cases seemed to be an admission of errors in management of the Bills on his part. However, if he was so pissed that he was angry or fed up these actions did not reflect this.  If he was so fed up with being an owner and his ownership his actions of hiring his buddy Marv and promising more personal involvement (a bad sign actually in terms of outcomes as I hope he leaves it to the professionals) are not those of someone so fed up he is checking out.  In addition, we have seen Ralph angry at an HC who he felt stiffed him when he took Wade to arbitration over payment of his final year even though he was almost certain to lose (and he did). Instead of being vindictive with MM, he let him walk and get a new job with Miami when simply by throwing a little fit he could have delayed MM's job search past the time folks like Miami wanted to hire.  H has demonstrated zero signs of anger or disengaging quite recently.

 

2. He seems to indicate in his comments that he clearly recognizes which parts of the NFL are about business and which parts are about sports.

 

Its hard for me to see where you are getting some sense of  RWS being personally disheartened by his loss of the 30-2 owner vote on the CBA.  He definitely seemed to be a bit pissed in such a complex document involving huge bucks being decided so quickly.  However, I have certainly gotten the sense for RWS and his comments over the years that he recognizes the difference between the part he enjiys the most (the sport) and the other necessary part of enjoying the sport which is the business.

 

RWS lost on the business vote bigtime, but I see no comments from him that indicate it has soured 40 years of positive experiences for the most part with the sport.

 

In fact if RWS was so fragile that he got so freaked out about every business set-back and loss he would have probably checked out of life a long time ago.

 

3. As far as the business side goes, it seems pretty clear that RWS has to recognize with the new CBA that while he is at a fiscal disadvantage to some owners, it all is in the context of he us among the very rich at a disadvantahe to the extremely rich.

 

It would be the height of whining for Ralph to get too peeved about this. Yes he iis at a fiscal disadvantage to hyper rich like Dan Snyder with larger immediate cash flow or those with large stadium assets they easily and willingly go into debty fpr ommediate cash over the cap total and RWS is not able or willing to put himself in this position.

 

However, being an BFL owner is the closest thing to owning a money-making machine for both rich and richer owners.  Ralph would have had to toatally lose any sense of fiscal reality here to feel that even though he got a worse deal than he wanted that he in any way shape or form got a bad deal.

 

I simply cannot imagine Ralph being such a little person that he feels he got a horrendous deal here and if he has any sense of balance he cannot be upset though he can quite reasonably be bummed the negotiations were not done in a manner the thinks business should be conducted/

650342[/snapback]

ahhhhhh....so THAT'S where "fake-fat sunny" went...you gave yourself a NEW NAME! i'd recognize your dissertational style anywhere!

 

i guess i don't spend enough time around here!