Guest BackInDaDay Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 ...to get into a game he thinks has been rigged against him? His strong feelings of discontent toward his fellow owners reflect his sense of their betrayal. Those remarks after the last CBA was reached, were those of a confused man. Not a man confused by the documents placed before him and what their contents meant to his franchise. No, those were the remarks of a man confused by how his opinions and leadership among his peers were no longer considered vital. His ambition to be recognised as one of the fathers of the NFL has been replaced by scorn, ridicule, and a diminished role in directing the league's future. This same harsh opinion of Ralph's value to the league is reflected in his inability to secure the HOF in recent years. His opportunities to stand in Canton, basking in the recognition of a grateful NFL grow less and less. This has to be another painful disappointment to a man who considers himself one of the league's founders and an architect of it's success. Such a man deserves more than post-humous honors and respectful eulogies. Yet, he may have to accept such a fate. How does this affect the Bills? In response to being cast aside, Ralph may have put his franchise on auto-pilot for his remaining years as it's owner. HOF coach and Bills' icon Marv Levy may be less the GM of an NFL team as he is the care-taker of an important part of Ralph's estate. Ralph's too old and too smart to squander any more of his children's money chasing SB trophies. Donahoe failed him in what could have been his last, hard run at it. Now, what's left? Could a championship rescue his legacy? Perhaps, but it's too late for that now, especially under the perceived circumstances. So, if Ralph's current perception is that the cards have been stacked against him, it follows that his best move is to fold. If Ralph has come to grips with that, then the fans must also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 You're reading a hell of a lot into unconnected events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 You're reading a hell of a lot into unconnected events. 650313[/snapback] I understand your response. You won't be the only one that feels this way. But I don't see these as 'unconnected responses'. Everyone's life is filled by events. Our responses to these events help to shape us, and give us form. This is my opinion of how a man might react to the reality that his positive perception of himself is not shared by others. Unless Ralph Wilson is delusional, he has to accept the fact that he is no longer considered a vital partner in the NFL. I think his reaction to this will adversly affect his participation in the league and his passion for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 There are 32 teams in the NFL. Only a handful are successful each season. Of the rest, what's their excuse? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 So we are to believe Ralph Wilson is not trying to win a super bowl because he is afraid of spending too much money?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 There are 32 teams in the NFL. Only a handful are successful each season. Of the rest, what's their excuse? PTR 650327[/snapback] I'm a Bills fan. My only concern is with the current commitment by our owner to field a competitve team that can compete for a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 So we are to believe Ralph Wilson is not trying to win a super bowl because he is afraid of spending too much money?? 650329[/snapback] Oh... He is trying all right... Just trying the cheap way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 So we are to believe Ralph Wilson is not trying to win a super bowl because he is afraid of spending too much money?? 650329[/snapback] I don't think it's all about the money. I think it's about dedicating a good portion of your life to something, establishing a pretty good sense of where you fit in, only to learn that you're no longer considered a significant contributor to it's success. I'm not saying Ralph's getting what he deserves, or that it's shameful in how he's been cast aside. All I'm saying is that I would understand if the last couple of years have had a sombering affect on his passion to build a championship team. This will keep him from spending. Not because he loves his money, but because he no longer loves the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfaningeneseo Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Backindaday, not that I necessarily agree with you, but I do understand where you are coming from. It hurts a lot to see something you have built from the beginning no longer recognize you as important, and it does take away a lot of the passion and competitiveness. Keep posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I don't think it's all about the money. I think it's about dedicating a good portion of your life to something, establishing a pretty good sense of where you fit in, only to learn that you're no longer considered a significant contributor to it's success. I'm not saying Ralph's getting what he deserves, or that it's shameful in how he's been cast aside. All I'm saying is that I would understand if the last couple of years have had a sombering affect on his passion to build a championship team. This will keep him from spending. Not because he loves his money, but because he no longer loves the game. 650335[/snapback] After hearubg Ralph's assessment of things in the CBA negotiation and watching and listening to him over the year's my sense of how he feels about this like yours is more based on my own feeling and conjectures rather than his since I do not know him intimately at all (I assume you suffer from missing this critical element for formulating a real opinion as I do, but if you do know him well my apologies). Yet, as fans of this business within which he has placed himself in the public sphere he has invited each of us to have our own fact-free ioinions about what he thinks and feels even if they are based on an incomplete view of all that went on and selected quotes from him chosen by the media. If he doesn't like your or my false conclusions he should get out of this public business. My sense from listening to an elderly Ralph recently and watching him over the years are: 1. He still seems to get real value out of being a Bills owner and trying hard. Despite any confusion and consternation with theCBA, we have seem this commitment most recently in his firing of TD, hiring of his buddy Marv, attempt to hang onto MM, but letting him go when he wanted to go. His actions in these cases seemed to be an admission of errors in management of the Bills on his part. However, if he was so pissed that he was angry or fed up these actions did not reflect this. If he was so fed up with being an owner and his ownership his actions of hiring his buddy Marv and promising more personal involvement (a bad sign actually in terms of outcomes as I hope he leaves it to the professionals) are not those of someone so fed up he is checking out. In addition, we have seen Ralph angry at an HC who he felt stiffed him when he took Wade to arbitration over payment of his final year even though he was almost certain to lose (and he did). Instead of being vindictive with MM, he let him walk and get a new job with Miami when simply by throwing a little fit he could have delayed MM's job search past the time folks like Miami wanted to hire. H has demonstrated zero signs of anger or disengaging quite recently. 2. He seems to indicate in his comments that he clearly recognizes which parts of the NFL are about business and which parts are about sports. Its hard for me to see where you are getting some sense of RWS being personally disheartened by his loss of the 30-2 owner vote on the CBA. He definitely seemed to be a bit pissed in such a complex document involving huge bucks being decided so quickly. However, I have certainly gotten the sense for RWS and his comments over the years that he recognizes the difference between the part he enjiys the most (the sport) and the other necessary part of enjoying the sport which is the business. RWS lost on the business vote bigtime, but I see no comments from him that indicate it has soured 40 years of positive experiences for the most part with the sport. In fact if RWS was so fragile that he got so freaked out about every business set-back and loss he would have probably checked out of life a long time ago. 3. As far as the business side goes, it seems pretty clear that RWS has to recognize with the new CBA that while he is at a fiscal disadvantage to some owners, it all is in the context of he us among the very rich at a disadvantahe to the extremely rich. It would be the height of whining for Ralph to get too peeved about this. Yes he iis at a fiscal disadvantage to hyper rich like Dan Snyder with larger immediate cash flow or those with large stadium assets they easily and willingly go into debty fpr ommediate cash over the cap total and RWS is not able or willing to put himself in this position. However, being an BFL owner is the closest thing to owning a money-making machine for both rich and richer owners. Ralph would have had to toatally lose any sense of fiscal reality here to feel that even though he got a worse deal than he wanted that he in any way shape or form got a bad deal. I simply cannot imagine Ralph being such a little person that he feels he got a horrendous deal here and if he has any sense of balance he cannot be upset though he can quite reasonably be bummed the negotiations were not done in a manner the thinks business should be conducted/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 ...to get into a game he thinks has been rigged against him? His strong feelings of discontent toward his fellow owners reflect his sense of their betrayal. Those remarks after the last CBA was reached, were those of a confused man. Not a man confused by the documents placed before him and what their contents meant to his franchise. No, those were the remarks of a man confused by how his opinions and leadership among his peers were no longer considered vital. His ambition to be recognised as one of the fathers of the NFL has been replaced by scorn, ridicule, and a diminished role in directing the league's future. This same harsh opinion of Ralph's value to the league is reflected in his inability to secure the HOF in recent years. His opportunities to stand in Canton, basking in the recognition of a grateful NFL grow less and less. This has to be another painful disappointment to a man who considers himself one of the league's founders and an architect of it's success. Such a man deserves more than post-humous honors and respectful eulogies. Yet, he may have to accept such a fate. How does this affect the Bills? In response to being cast aside, Ralph may have put his franchise on auto-pilot for his remaining years as it's owner. HOF coach and Bills' icon Marv Levy may be less the GM of an NFL team as he is the care-taker of an important part of Ralph's estate. Ralph's too old and too smart to squander any more of his children's money chasing SB trophies. Donahoe failed him in what could have been his last, hard run at it. Now, what's left? Could a championship rescue his legacy? Perhaps, but it's too late for that now, especially under the perceived circumstances. So, if Ralph's current perception is that the cards have been stacked against him, it follows that his best move is to fold. If Ralph has come to grips with that, then the fans must also. 650312[/snapback] That Sir, is depressing stuff. I now have a better understanding as to why you think that the Bills will trade out of the first round entirely. There is another side to this in terms of what is possible imo. Could the fact that Marv jettisoned old veterans be seen as an indication that they are actually thinking of the long term health of the Bills? Imo, this current team is too bad for players such as Moulds, Milloy and Adams to make much of a difference. When was the last time one of these guys "took over" a game if you will? These moves are a good thing to one who wants the Bills to build a strong, young nucleus. In any event, I do not discount what you say. I am just hoping that you are wrong, because a disillusioned, angry fan base that doesn't attend games could be just what the NFL is looking for in terms of moving a team to LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 ...to get into a game he thinks has been rigged against him? His strong feelings of discontent toward his fellow owners reflect his sense of their betrayal. Those remarks after the last CBA was reached, were those of a confused man. Not a man confused by the documents placed before him and what their contents meant to his franchise. No, those were the remarks of a man confused by how his opinions and leadership among his peers were no longer considered vital. His ambition to be recognised as one of the fathers of the NFL has been replaced by scorn, ridicule, and a diminished role in directing the league's future. This same harsh opinion of Ralph's value to the league is reflected in his inability to secure the HOF in recent years. His opportunities to stand in Canton, basking in the recognition of a grateful NFL grow less and less. This has to be another painful disappointment to a man who considers himself one of the league's founders and an architect of it's success. Such a man deserves more than post-humous honors and respectful eulogies. Yet, he may have to accept such a fate. How does this affect the Bills? In response to being cast aside, Ralph may have put his franchise on auto-pilot for his remaining years as it's owner. HOF coach and Bills' icon Marv Levy may be less the GM of an NFL team as he is the care-taker of an important part of Ralph's estate. Ralph's too old and too smart to squander any more of his children's money chasing SB trophies. Donahoe failed him in what could have been his last, hard run at it. Now, what's left? Could a championship rescue his legacy? Perhaps, but it's too late for that now, especially under the perceived circumstances. So, if Ralph's current perception is that the cards have been stacked against him, it follows that his best move is to fold. If Ralph has come to grips with that, then the fans must also. 650312[/snapback] You make some great points. I agree that Ralph must feel a sense of alienation. No HOF vote and now this. Many of his colleagues have passed. He must look around the room and wonder about the new breed. Synder and Jones will ruin this league while making a fortune and Ralph knows it. How hard would it have been for the owners to review that CBA material one more time to clearly understand the impacts and gain a consensus? We may have the same conclusion but at least Ralph would have been given the courtesy he deserves. I wonder why Lamar Hunt has not said anaything either way about this? I think Ralph feels that the cards are stacked against him but I am not sure he is going to fold either. More like reshuffle and play a new hand. That is where Marv comes in. Not to gaurd the estate but to advance it. The Bill have been cautious in free agency but I would not take that as a sign that they are not trying to improve the team. Marv will have a plan and he will execute it. He really is Ralph last chance at a title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 His ambition to be recognised as one of the fathers of the NFL has been replaced by scorn, ridicule, and a diminished role in directing the league's future. This same harsh opinion of Ralph's value to the league is reflected in his inability to secure the HOF in recent years. His opportunities to stand in Canton, basking in the recognition of a grateful NFL grow less and less. This has to be another painful disappointment to a man who considers himself one of the league's founders and an architect of it's success. Such a man deserves more than post-humous honors and respectful eulogies. Yet, he may have to accept such a fate. 650312[/snapback] OK, I am picking nits here, but Ralph is not a "father" of the NFL, nor is he a founder of the league. He is one of the founders of a competitor league to the NFL (a league considered to be inferior to the NFL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 After hearubg Ralph's assessment of things in the CBA negotiation and watching and listening to him over the year's my sense of how he feels about this like yours is more based on my own feeling and conjectures rather than his since I do not know him intimately at all (I assume you suffer from missing this critical element for formulating a real opinion as I do, but if you do know him well my apologies). Yet, as fans of this business within which he has placed himself in the public sphere he has invited each of us to have our own fact-free ioinions about what he thinks and feels even if they are based on an incomplete view of all that went on and selected quotes from him chosen by the media. If he doesn't like your or my false conclusions he should get out of this public business. My sense from listening to an elderly Ralph recently and watching him over the years are: 1. He still seems to get real value out of being a Bills owner and trying hard. Despite any confusion and consternation with theCBA, we have seem this commitment most recently in his firing of TD, hiring of his buddy Marv, attempt to hang onto MM, but letting him go when he wanted to go. His actions in these cases seemed to be an admission of errors in management of the Bills on his part. However, if he was so pissed that he was angry or fed up these actions did not reflect this. If he was so fed up with being an owner and his ownership his actions of hiring his buddy Marv and promising more personal involvement (a bad sign actually in terms of outcomes as I hope he leaves it to the professionals) are not those of someone so fed up he is checking out. In addition, we have seen Ralph angry at an HC who he felt stiffed him when he took Wade to arbitration over payment of his final year even though he was almost certain to lose (and he did). Instead of being vindictive with MM, he let him walk and get a new job with Miami when simply by throwing a little fit he could have delayed MM's job search past the time folks like Miami wanted to hire. H has demonstrated zero signs of anger or disengaging quite recently. 2. He seems to indicate in his comments that he clearly recognizes which parts of the NFL are about business and which parts are about sports. Its hard for me to see where you are getting some sense of RWS being personally disheartened by his loss of the 30-2 owner vote on the CBA. He definitely seemed to be a bit pissed in such a complex document involving huge bucks being decided so quickly. However, I have certainly gotten the sense for RWS and his comments over the years that he recognizes the difference between the part he enjiys the most (the sport) and the other necessary part of enjoying the sport which is the business. RWS lost on the business vote bigtime, but I see no comments from him that indicate it has soured 40 years of positive experiences for the most part with the sport. In fact if RWS was so fragile that he got so freaked out about every business set-back and loss he would have probably checked out of life a long time ago. 3. As far as the business side goes, it seems pretty clear that RWS has to recognize with the new CBA that while he is at a fiscal disadvantage to some owners, it all is in the context of he us among the very rich at a disadvantahe to the extremely rich. It would be the height of whining for Ralph to get too peeved about this. Yes he iis at a fiscal disadvantage to hyper rich like Dan Snyder with larger immediate cash flow or those with large stadium assets they easily and willingly go into debty fpr ommediate cash over the cap total and RWS is not able or willing to put himself in this position. However, being an BFL owner is the closest thing to owning a money-making machine for both rich and richer owners. Ralph would have had to toatally lose any sense of fiscal reality here to feel that even though he got a worse deal than he wanted that he in any way shape or form got a bad deal. I simply cannot imagine Ralph being such a little person that he feels he got a horrendous deal here and if he has any sense of balance he cannot be upset though he can quite reasonably be bummed the negotiations were not done in a manner the thinks business should be conducted/ 650342[/snapback] Whens the movie come out for this novel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Could the fact that Marv jettisoned old veterans be seen as an indication that they are actually thinking of the long term health of the Bills? 650361[/snapback] Yes, I agree. The long term health of the product on the field and the business which supports it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. Dumping veteran salaries and bonus obligations is fine as long as the money is recycled back into the roster. But I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that's going to happen. Our strategy in this FA period, to sign unappreciated UFAs was a rather passive attempt at strengthening the team with affordable players. We know who determines what the Bills can afford. My post was an attempt to explain why I believe the owner may have lowered his expectations, for the NFL and his Bills, and how this may affect the team's level of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 He should spend money because he can't take it with him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 OK, I am picking nits here, but Ralph is not a "father" of the NFL, nor is he a founder of the league. He is one of the founders of a competitor league to the NFL (a league considered to be inferior to the NFL). 650413[/snapback] I know, but it was Ralph , Lamar Hunt, Bud Adams and the rest of the original AFL owners who sold the Giants' Wellington Mara on the idea of adopting the AFL's revenue sharing policies during the merger of the two leagues. Mara, in turn, convinced his fellow NFL owners that the new guys had a sound plan to distribute the TV bonanza coming their way. It was a sacrifice for some, but it served the best interest of the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazykat Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 ...to get into a game he thinks has been rigged against him? His strong feelings of discontent toward his fellow owners reflect his sense of their betrayal. Those remarks after the last CBA was reached, were those of a confused man. Not a man confused by the documents placed before him and what their contents meant to his franchise. No, those were the remarks of a man confused by how his opinions and leadership among his peers were no longer considered vital. His ambition to be recognised as one of the fathers of the NFL has been replaced by scorn, ridicule, and a diminished role in directing the league's future. This same harsh opinion of Ralph's value to the league is reflected in his inability to secure the HOF in recent years. His opportunities to stand in Canton, basking in the recognition of a grateful NFL grow less and less. This has to be another painful disappointment to a man who considers himself one of the league's founders and an architect of it's success. Such a man deserves more than post-humous honors and respectful eulogies. Yet, he may have to accept such a fate. How does this affect the Bills? In response to being cast aside, Ralph may have put his franchise on auto-pilot for his remaining years as it's owner. HOF coach and Bills' icon Marv Levy may be less the GM of an NFL team as he is the care-taker of an important part of Ralph's estate. Ralph's too old and too smart to squander any more of his children's money chasing SB trophies. Donahoe failed him in what could have been his last, hard run at it. Now, what's left? Could a championship rescue his legacy? Perhaps, but it's too late for that now, especially under the perceived circumstances. So, if Ralph's current perception is that the cards have been stacked against him, it follows that his best move is to fold. If Ralph has come to grips with that, then the fans must also. 650312[/snapback] Excellent post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazykat Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I'm not saying Ralph's getting what he deserves, or that it's shameful in how he's been cast aside. 650335[/snapback] He's reaping the fruits of his decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Indablanc Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I understand your response. You won't be the only one that feels this way. But I don't see these as 'unconnected responses'. Everyone's life is filled by events. Our responses to these events help to shape us, and give us form. This is my opinion of how a man might react to the reality that his positive perception of himself is not shared by others. Unless Ralph Wilson is delusional, he has to accept the fact that he is no longer considered a vital partner in the NFL. I think his reaction to this will adversly affect his participation in the league and his passion for the Bills. 650322[/snapback] "Each man's life touches each other in many ways. You see Ralph, you really do have a wonderful franchise." Clarence (the grounds keeper) "Every time I eat chicken wings another team wins Superbowl rings" Ralph's daughter "No man is a failure who has championships" Clarence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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