ExiledInIllinois Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 And that is the problem. People always want to get lawyers involved, and cannot say what they mean. Thanks for the help. 647060[/snapback] Much abiliged. I guess in a perfect world you can say what you mean... But, if it means doing something that is illegal (saying what you mean and then carrying it out)... You would be a fool not to get a lawyer involved if you are unsure. Right? It isn't as simple as the rhetoric implies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Much abiliged. I guess in a perfect world you can say what you mean... But, if it means doing something that is illegal (saying what you mean and then carrying it out)... You would be a fool not to get a lawyer involved if you are unsure. Right? It isn't as simple as the rhetoric implies. 647076[/snapback] But laws should be that simple. You shall not kill You shall not steal You shall not piss off VABills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 But laws should be that simple. You shall not kill You shall not steal You shall not piss off VABills 647085[/snapback] But midget jokes are still cool right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 You must be higher up than me... What does he mean by that? 647046[/snapback] Picture the Masons, or some other lodge... There is a government within government that has little if anything to do with the political party in charge. Most Federal operations are actually run by members of the SES. The Holy Grail of the GS system. Career civil servants who have had to basically eat their own young to get there. Many are technically competent, at least those that I know, but at the same time, they didn't get there by being unselfish. And unfortunately, they can't be voted out. I don't know about other branches, but in the DoD they are accorded General Officer protocol. They are even presented with a flag to display in their office, on the other side of the American one. I'm sure I'll get nailed on this one, but I've always been of the mind that very senior civil service are those who couldn't make it in private industry. Love of country doesn't mean working for 1/3 the pay you can get basically doing the same thing as a consultant. Anyone got anything to add? I could be somewhat off-base here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 But midget jokes are still cool right? 647095[/snapback] Not if they piss me off. Because next to the wrath of God, is wrath of VABills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Picture the Masons, or some other lodge... There is a government within government that has little if anything to do with the political party in charge. Most Federal operations are actually run by members of the SES. The Holy Grail of the GS system. Career civil servants who have had to basically eat their own young to get there. Many are technically competent, at least those that I know, but at the same time, they didn't get there by being unselfish. And unfortunately, they can't be voted out. I don't know about other branches, but in the DoD they are accorded General Officer protocol. They are even presented with a flag to display in their office, on the other side of the American one. I'm sure I'll get nailed on this one, but I've always been of the mind that very senior civil service are those who couldn't make it in private industry. Love of country doesn't mean working for 1/3 the pay you can get basically doing the same thing as a consultant. Anyone got anything to add? I could be somewhat off-base here. 647098[/snapback] The others are burrowed in politicals from past admins. Still can't get rid of them and either way I agree with your assessment in most cases. Of course there are exceptions, just not many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 The others are burrowed in politicals from past admins. Still can't get rid of them and either way I agree with your assessment in most cases. Of course there are exceptions, just not many. 647104[/snapback] Trust me, I know this. The old timers have a bad habit of undermining certain things the admin does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Picture the Masons, or some other lodge... There is a government within government that has little if anything to do with the political party in charge. Most Federal operations are actually run by members of the SES. The Holy Grail of the GS system. Career civil servants who have had to basically eat their own young to get there. Many are technically competent, at least those that I know, but at the same time, they didn't get there by being unselfish. And unfortunately, they can't be voted out. I don't know about other branches, but in the DoD they are accorded General Officer protocol. They are even presented with a flag to display in their office, on the other side of the American one. I'm sure I'll get nailed on this one, but I've always been of the mind that very senior civil service are those who couldn't make it in private industry. Love of country doesn't mean working for 1/3 the pay you can get basically doing the same thing as a consultant. Anyone got anything to add? I could be somewhat off-base here. 647098[/snapback] Oh... I see now... I had a feeling what you might have been talking about... Sorry. In the USACE... There are executive assistants at every district... Basically the civilian to the Col... The Col. gets rotated every 3 years with a new one... I see the need for a constant civilian job. I have been saying for years that the problems in our district stems from this person in this position... Nobody seems to know what I am talking about. It is the one "constant" through the years and very influential on policy. I think I can be saying this?... I am talking from home. But... Maybe the sentence above is also a part of the problem... Can you really be free to "buck" the system and not get whacked? This has always been the brave "new frontier" for my arguments as a representative of the collective bargaining unit (ie: labor... Union and non-union alike.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Oh... I see now... I had a feeling what you might have been talking about... Sorry. In the USACE... There are executive assistants at every district... Basically the civilian to the Col... The Col. gets rotated every 3 years with a new one... I see the need for a constant civilian job. I have been saying for years that the problems in our district stems from this person in this position... Nobody seems to know what I am talking about. It is the one "constant" through the years and very influential on policy. I think I can be saying this?... I am talking from home. But... Maybe the sentence above is also a part of the problem... Can you really be free to "buck" the system and not get whacked? This has always been the brave "new frontier" for my arguments as a representative of the collective bargaining unit (ie: labor... Union and non-union alike.) 647117[/snapback] There, I think you get into whatever "individual" aspects are left. Some people still free lance, and can do it on reputation. As Armadillo says, there are exceptions. I know a few too, and they are dedicated and good people. And, as you point out, continuity is important in the DoD, as the DoD is unique amongst government agencies in having leadership turnover policy. GS, SES and actually nowadays, contractors provide that. But to give my opinion on the question...man, I don't know. I have a good idea of what you are talking about. But in what little you have said, I'd guess this person has friends in high places. Best I can say, FWIW (being a planner) is if this person is truely an incompetent impediment - be sure first your goals are not contradictory to a bigger picture. Examine as many angles, and also their POV as much as you can. If you reach the same conclusions, very quietly develop a strategy with a plan and alternative plans to get what you want without harming them. Everyone has to save face. Vocal and visible is not a good tactic. Not saying you are, it just isn't. Works for news channel soundbites, but not in the real world. Damn...I could write a lot on this, and probably doesn't sound like I made any sense at all. Just hard to get it down in a couple paragraphs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 There, I think you get into whatever "individual" aspects are left. Some people still free lance, and can do it on reputation. As Armadillo says, there are exceptions. I know a few too, and they are dedicated and good people. And, as you point out, continuity is important in the DoD, as the DoD is unique amongst government agencies in having leadership turnover policy. GS, SES and actually nowadays, contractors provide that. But to give my opinion on the question...man, I don't know. I have a good idea of what you are talking about. But in what little you have said, I'd guess this person has friends in high places. Best I can say, FWIW (being a planner) is if this person is truely an incompetent impediment - be sure first your goals are not contradictory to a bigger picture. Examine as many angles, and also their POV as much as you can. If you reach the same conclusions, very quietly develop a strategy with a plan and alternative plans to get what you want without harming them. Everyone has to save face. Vocal and visible is not a good tactic. Not saying you are, it just isn't. Works for news channel soundbites, but not in the real world. Damn...I could write a lot on this, and probably doesn't sound like I made any sense at all. Just hard to get it down in a couple paragraphs. 647142[/snapback] Use cautious judgment and CYA? That boil it down? Seriously, difficult issue, you really don't want to have your finger prints on anything that appears to have a whiff of you going around that person(s). Better if you can get others to do that for you without you being even thought of as the source of their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 There, I think you get into whatever "individual" aspects are left. Some people still free lance, and can do it on reputation. As Armadillo says, there are exceptions. I know a few too, and they are dedicated and good people. And, as you point out, continuity is important in the DoD, as the DoD is unique amongst government agencies in having leadership turnover policy. GS, SES and actually nowadays, contractors provide that. But to give my opinion on the question...man, I don't know. I have a good idea of what you are talking about. But in what little you have said, I'd guess this person has friends in high places. Best I can say, FWIW (being a planner) is if this person is truely an incompetent impediment - be sure first your goals are not contradictory to a bigger picture. Examine as many angles, and also their POV as much as you can. If you reach the same conclusions, very quietly develop a strategy with a plan and alternative plans to get what you want without harming them. Everyone has to save face. Vocal and visible is not a good tactic. Not saying you are, it just isn't. Works for news channel soundbites, but not in the real world. Damn...I could write a lot on this, and probably doesn't sound like I made any sense at all. Just hard to get it down in a couple paragraphs. 647142[/snapback] I see where you are coming from and draw the same conclusions. The person is just an arse... But, untouchables that possess those qualities really set the tone for a long, long time. That is the real prob. And I am afraid nothing can change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Use cautious judgment and CYA? That boil it down? Seriously, difficult issue, you really don't want to have your finger prints on anything that appears to have a whiff of you going around that person(s). Better if you can get others to do that for you without you being even thought of as the source of their actions. 647151[/snapback] Friggen Demo Nazi soundbites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 The solution will be this: - A committee will be formed to study the problem. - The committee will include at least one of each of the following: * Native American * Female * Homosexual * Lesbian * Transgendered * Black * Hispanic - The committee will be given "executive powers" so that the committee's actions do not have to be disclosed to the public. - Once the committee is done with their initial work, they will have a week-long "fact-finding mission" which will include trips to locations that are coincidentally very close to resort areas. - The conclusion will be that more federal dollars are needed to solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 - The committee will include at least one of each of the following:* Native American * Female * Homosexual * Lesbian * Transgendered * Black * Hispanic 647217[/snapback] Where are the Asians? What do you have against the Asians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Where are the Asians? What do you have against the Asians? 647247[/snapback] I am "opressing" them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I am "opressing" them. 647254[/snapback] According to BiB, Asian hating week does not start until the middle of April. Did I miss a memo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Friggen Demo Nazi soundbites. 647195[/snapback] Unh? run out of appropriate insults? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Unh? run out of appropriate insults? 647304[/snapback] No, let me think a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 No, let me think a bit. 647314[/snapback] Didn't figure but had to get it in there, LOL. You think, now there is a statement, ha ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Not if they piss me off. Because next to the wrath of God, is wrath of VABills 647101[/snapback] Okay, Smeagol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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