EC-Bills Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Chris KelsayBennie Anderson Mike Williams Trey Teague Chris Villarial Nate Clements Eric Moulds Sam Adams Mark Cambell Daimon Shelton So you think that these "veterans" didn't play like amateurish a-holes in 2005??????? The sad thing here is that so many Bills fans buy into the myth that this team has a very good group of veterans who are being forced to play with a lousy player in JP Losman. I have little sympathy for these fans. BTW, every single one of those guys sucked in 2005. 646083[/snapback] And don't forget, they didn't hesitate to throw JP under the bus for them not playing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Tom Ruud, Okie Dokes, Perry Tuttle, Booker Moore.... 646319[/snapback] Bucky Brooks fits in there too. Then there is Victor Allotey - he was on the roster for almost 5 years he never dressed for a game. What a gig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 He actually missed a bunch of games last year because he was hurt. YOUR INTERPRETATION is that the coach sat him out because another qb gave us a better chance to win (which is ironic in itself). YOU were not there. You don't know that to be true. THE FACTS are JP has missed at least 13 games over two seasons because of injury. If thats not showing potential for being anything but injury prone then i don't know what is. Other people can have opinions and they are not morons simply because they don't agree with you. You haven't once backed up a fact with why JP is good. Lots of QBs have come back from bad years - lots haven't He had better stats then Elway - who the hell cares He had a bad line - a successful QB can hide some oline problems with smart decisions. Tell me something good he's done for an entire game - or better yet over the course of 4 games. the only thing i can come up with is be injured. He does that very well 646338[/snapback] The hardest thing for me is to try to give my take without putting down my fellow bills brethren when it comes to these issues....but man o man... - not a fact that JP is good? Well...the real issue to me is how anyone in this thread who is anti JPL feels that the fan base NEEDS to prove that JPL is good....JPL is a ROOKIE in essence....he was a 1st round pick (with a ton of talent...everyone thought so but thought he was going to need refinement...this team is not going to the Super Bowl next year.....why not find out WHAT WE HAVE....we invested so much into JPL (let us not forget we did not have a 1st round pick in this last years draft....forcing us to take a chance on Rosco Parrish in the 2nd) If I go out and guy a car and something goes wrong with it I am going to at least try to find out WHY it isn't working before I have it towed away for less value then what I paid for it...why....because it is an INVESTMENT....I dont want to throw away my 1st round pick investment because it sets us back...... - None of us...NONE OF US...know the exact happenings last year that caused Losman to sit and Holcomb to play at the latter part of the season.....I buy into the theory that the veterans wanted to make a run at the playoffs so they wanted a vet qb behind center.....the problem we didn't have coaches that had the balls to tell those players to shut the #$**& up and play their positions like they should have...... Losman is not the problem for this team.....if you ask me Eric Moulds is more of a problem....Sam Adams was more of a problem.....the lazy ass primadonna weak minded blame it on somebody else attitude of a clich of veterans brought this team down instead of making strong like it should have..... The thing that I find refreshing and gives me hope for the future is the fact that Willis Magehee has been silent through all this crap...doing what he is supposed to do and "looking for a new start" this after everybody was badmouthing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 The thing that I find refreshing and gives me hope for the future is the fact that Willis Magehee has been silent through all this crap...doing what he is supposed to do and "looking for a new start" this after everybody was badmouthing him. 646390[/snapback] I completely agree with this statement. A good young QB, a good young reciever, a good young RB. All we need is a good young line and we're in great shape in my opinion. However, I am hopeful that prior to the first preseason game there will be an overwhelming call to trade Willis because .... (you can fill in any one of a dozen reasons). There's already been a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 The hardest thing for me is to try to give my take without putting down my fellow bills brethren when it comes to these issues....but man o man...- not a fact that JP is good? Well...the real issue to me is how anyone in this thread who is anti JPL feels that the fan base NEEDS to prove that JPL is good....JPL is a ROOKIE in essence....he was a 1st round pick (with a ton of talent...everyone thought so but thought he was going to need refinement...this team is not going to the Super Bowl next year.....why not find out WHAT WE HAVE....we invested so much into JPL (let us not forget we did not have a 1st round pick in this last years draft....forcing us to take a chance on Rosco Parrish in the 2nd) If I go out and guy a car and something goes wrong with it I am going to at least try to find out WHY it isn't working before I have it towed away for less value then what I paid for it...why....because it is an INVESTMENT....I dont want to throw away my 1st round pick investment because it sets us back...... - None of us...NONE OF US...know the exact happenings last year that caused Losman to sit and Holcomb to play at the latter part of the season.....I buy into the theory that the veterans wanted to make a run at the playoffs so they wanted a vet qb behind center.....the problem we didn't have coaches that had the balls to tell those players to shut the #$**& up and play their positions like they should have...... Losman is not the problem for this team.....if you ask me Eric Moulds is more of a problem....Sam Adams was more of a problem.....the lazy ass primadonna weak minded blame it on somebody else attitude of a clich of veterans brought this team down instead of making strong like it should have..... The thing that I find refreshing and gives me hope for the future is the fact that Willis Magehee has been silent through all this crap...doing what he is supposed to do and "looking for a new start" this after everybody was badmouthing him. 646390[/snapback] the point that this post and many other posts that espouse "we can't cut jp because WE don't know if he is good or not" misses is that while WE the fans might not know, it is very possible that team managment does know. if he is sloppy in practice, doesn't understand the plays, has filled is teamates with doubt, shows no signs of learning, or just doesn't show a strong enough interest in improving the things he isn't good at then the management knows all they need to about him. it might take a while to really determin if a QB is good, and that means lots of games, it can be determined if he isn't good much much faster. a few starts and 2 years in the organization is plenty of time to pull the plug on a guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 a few starts and 2 years in the organization is plenty of time to pull the plug on a guy. 646582[/snapback] Not for a 1st round QB it isn't, even if he's peeping in the cheerleader's dressing room and and pissing in the Gatorade jugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 the point that this post and many other posts that espouse "we can't cut jp because WE don't know if he is good or not" misses is that while WE the fans might not know, it is very possible that team managment does know. if he is sloppy in practice, doesn't understand the plays, has filled is teamates with doubt, shows no signs of learning, or just doesn't show a strong enough interest in improving the things he isn't good at then the management knows all they need to about him. 646582[/snapback] Because this new management has seen no practices and has been around for all of three months? You're kidding, right? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ1 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 This is about as smart as 'Buffalo Jills - hot or not." We gave away the farm to draft this kid. We yank him in and out of games and basically don't give him a chance. Now its time to trade him away. MEMO!!!! A certain former QB of the Bills who wore #12 wasn't exactly well-liked in his first five years. 645784[/snapback] The MOST unintelligent aspect of the whole discussion is even if all the speculation were true the absolute dumbest thing the Bills could do is trade a player when his stock is at its lowest. Lotsa geniuses on this board, lotsa of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 First off, Losman is, dare I say it, a victim of last year's coaching staff. He was named the starter without earning the job, which is something that even he was uncomfortable with it. As a result, I'm sure his teammates, who have all had to fight to earn their starting spot, did not fully buy in to a QB who was inserted into the mix. That certainly didn't help Losman last year as he tried to keep his starting role. It would also account for any rumoured "team doesn't like him" messages... As to where things are now, it's kind of silly to think that the Bills would be ready to shuffle him off without even seeing him make one throw live, just based on tape. They just started the offseason conditioning program last week, so it seems far too early for the coaching staff to have assessed his current capabilities. Does that mean that Marv and company are not "testing the trade waters?" Absolutely not. You have a 3 way competition at QB (as Marv and Dick pretty much had said all along...Dick saying no one will be handed the starting job at any position, that it has to be earned, and Marv saying they'd be picking up a 2nd tier Free agent QB to give us 3 (non-NFL Europe) QB's), which means that there are 2 out of 3 outcomes that result in Losman not getting the starting job. Now this doesn't mean that Losman only has a 33% chance of getting the job, but if he can't beat out two other candidates in a practice scenario, then he's not going to cut it as a #1 QB for this offense during the season. If one of those two situations happen (Nall or Holcomb get the starting nod), you need to be ready for plan B. Plan B cannot (or at least shouldn't) include keeping Losman as a number 2 so you have to determine what your other options are. A trade is the best overall option because you get something for him. So where people are complaining that Levy won't get anything for Moulds because it's already clear the Bills will release Moulds, he's taking the opposite tack of looking for trade partners first in case he needs to dump Losman. This rumored "trade scenario" is not about Losman losing the team's confidence before he even steps out on the practice field, it's not about dumping a "TD guy," it's talking hypothetically with other teams to guage interest in anticipation of a possible outcome. This scenario would be completely consistent with everything we've heard from the coaching staff and front office, and I haven't seen them do anything that's inconsistent with what they've said they were going to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Because this new management has seen no practices and has been around for all of three months? You're kidding, right? Right? 646659[/snapback] they still have staff held over from the old regime and have access to all the tape they need. modrak will have a well formed opinion of JP. they may well have seen something in nall to think he is a better prospect than losman. marv and jouron might be new in their current roles, but plenty of other people have been around for a while will tell marv and co all they need. gms and scouts can watch ncaa players on tape and project their quality with great accuracy (sure there are busts, but there not many 5th round guys who are of the quality of 1st round guys and teams can see this). just because we as fans think we might not have seen concrete evidence to say that jp will never be good does not mean that he ever will be good, or that there aren't other players who are better prospects as the bills QB. jp losman is also somewhat frail for an NFL QB and has been hurt several times (school, last year, 2 years ago). all he has going for him is his speed, 2 or 3 good quarters and hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Not for a 1st round QB it isn't, even if he's peeping in the cheerleader's dressing room and and pissing in the Gatorade jugs. 646648[/snapback] LOL....but you are right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 The Stadium Wall has changed since the late 90's. I'm sure the Bills losing so much, has a lot to do with it. 645898[/snapback] Geez....ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Jesus Christ.... - JP LOSMAN WAS INJURED HIS FIRST YEAR - HE CAME FROM A SMALL SCHOOL TO BEGIN WITH....WE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME - He come in and sits behind an offensive line that Payton Manning would get killed behind...and despite all that shows flashes of promise...he shows spurts where he goes off with talent...he showes arm strength...mobility...etc etc...when his line game him time to set his feet he was accurate...... - Oh but there WERE those times when he showed to be a rookie BECAUSE HE WAS ONE There are times when I just dont understand people on this board........ 645922[/snapback] I'll make it simple. We shouldn't have drafted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I think he was an excellent draft pick..... I just think that maybe we should have handled it differently.....there should have been a competition....we should have brought in another vet qb to challenge I wouldn't have been against Losman sitting another year to work on his mechanics.....if we brought in a capable vet QB..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I think he was an excellent draft pick..... I just think that maybe we should have handled it differently.....there should have been a competition....we should have brought in another vet qb to challenge I wouldn't have been against Losman sitting another year to work on his mechanics.....if we brought in a capable vet QB..... 647175[/snapback] I agee with everything but your last statement. Holcomb's our 'capable vet QB' , he's a downgrade from Bledsoe and shouldn't take time away from developing either Losman or Nall. Holcomb has a large enough body of work in the NFL that justifies this opinion. It may be wrong, but it's based on his 9 uneventful seasons in the NFL. No one knows if Losman or Nall will produce more in Fairchild's O than Holcomb, but unless they're both stumbling around like a couple 8th graders, one of them had better get the reigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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