Rubes Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 When TD arrived, he inherited what most of us would agree is a mess. I, and most of us, seemed willing to cut him some slack on his three-year plan to get us back on track. In the first couple of years, he dealt with the salary cap problem and with Gregggg's coaching we were poised to make some noise in year 3. For many reasons that didn't happen, and another failed coaching attempt later we're back essentially where we started. We don't have the huge salary cap burden that we did when TD started, but the team as a whole has a lot of problems that need to be addressed. Marv's not starting with a blank slate, but this lump of clay needs a lot of shaping before it can get back to being a solid contender. Yet there seems to be a tremendous amount of impatience this time. Sure, it's now been that many more years since we've been in the playoffs, but don't Marv (and Dick) deserve the same chance we gave TD (and Gregggg) when they arrived? It seems to me a number of the moves made so far this offseason were made with the next few years in mind, rather than a quick expensive fix. If we give a draft class a few years before we determine if they worked out, doesn't Marv deserve the same?
Max Fischer Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 How about at least through the draft? Perhaps give him an extension through training camp but the first game we lose he's gone.
Buftex Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 Yet there seems to be a tremendous amount of impatience this time. Sure, it's now been that many more years since we've been in the playoffs, but don't Marv (and Dick) deserve the same chance we gave TD (and Gregggg) when they arrived? It seems to me a number of the moves made so far this offseason were made with the next few years in mind, rather than a quick expensive fix. If we give a draft class a few years before we determine if they worked out, doesn't Marv deserve the same? 644878[/snapback] I agree that Marv deserves some time and patientce, but you can't really think that fans who have followed this team for as long as they can remember, don't deserve the right to say "huh?" or "okay we have seen this before!" It is part of the fun of being a sports fan, the bitching. Since the Bills don't want to let us participate in the other fun parts of sports fandom (y'know, winning games, rooting for good teams), let us have our fun!
Realist Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 You mean giving Marv three days wasn't long enough?
Tortured Soul Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I agree that Marv deserves some time and patientce, but you can't really think that fans who have followed this team for as long as they can remember, don't deserve the right to say "huh?" or "okay we have seen this before!" It is part of the fun of being a sports fan, the bitching. Since the Bills don't want to let us participate in the other fun parts of sports (y'know, winning games!), let us have our fun! 644886[/snapback] Well said. I'd add because this message board exists and eight hours is a lot of time to sit in a cubicle.
SDS Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 Yet there seems to be a tremendous amount of impatience this time. Sure, it's now been that many more years since we've been in the playoffs, but don't Marv (and Dick) deserve the same chance we gave TD (and Gregggg) when they arrived? It seems to me a number of the moves made so far this offseason were made with the next few years in mind, rather than a quick expensive fix. If we give a draft class a few years before we determine if they worked out, doesn't Marv deserve the same? 644878[/snapback] the problem lies with the perception by many fans, myself included, that Levy WAS the quick fix. I have no confidence that any "foundation" has been laid at OBD. Nevermind OL's and DL's - the merry-go-round that is the coaching staff/GM only means the players chosen today will be shown the door tomorrow. It is hard to be patient when you get the feeling there is some clock with a quick alarm ready to buzz again in the near future...
mead107 Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 got to give him till he hits 100 . he is old and slow .
drnykterstein Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I give Levy 4 years, maybe even I'd give him 5 if he asked nicely.
Lurker Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I give him as much time as he needs, now that I no longer have my season tix!
mead107 Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I give him as much time as he needs, now that I no longer have my season tix! 644900[/snapback] your season tickets ?? did you trade them ?
todd Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I think 3 years is fine, however I think we should expect playoffs in year 2. No playoffs in year 2 is quite poor, with no playoffs in year 3 grouds for firing unless there are extenuating circumstances - like a meteor or something.
Simon Posted March 29, 2006 Posted March 29, 2006 I think 3 years is fine, however I think we should expect playoffs in year 2. No playoffs in year 2 is quite poor, with no playoffs in year 3 grouds for firing unless there are extenuating circumstances - like a meteor or something. 644952[/snapback] That is the perfect business plan for a franchise that seeks to be a perpetual loser.
todd Posted March 29, 2006 Posted March 29, 2006 That is the perfect groundwork for a franchise that seeks to be a perpetual loser. 644961[/snapback] ?? Please explain. I happen to be a logical realist, so I'm not quite sure of the objection here. Anyway, the meteor comment was meant to illustrate a point. If you think about it, you might get it.
Astrobot Posted March 29, 2006 Posted March 29, 2006 We're going to meet Eeyore, aren't we? When are you taking him out?
Simon Posted March 29, 2006 Posted March 29, 2006 ?? Please explain. I happen to be a logical realist, so I'm not quite sure of the objection here. Anyway, the meteor comment was meant to illustrate a point. If you think about it, you might get it. 644965[/snapback] If you start tearing apart your organization every couple years that you aren't among the league's elite, you will never be able maintain any type of continuity. I think that continuity is a key factor in becoming a succesful club and staying that way. Good personnel people have bad years occasionally and when you start dumping good people every time they run into a bad stretch, you're never going to be able to keep anything together long enough to let it reach its potential. For an example look at the Bills recent decision to cave to their whiny fanbase and lose highly regarded football people like Donahoe, Wyche and Mularkey because a team that had been showing improvement took a single step backwards when they lost their two best defensive players and plugged in a rookie QB. The Bills have a nice base of young talent to work with in a cap friendly situation, but I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that Ralph's idiotic cowardly decision is the beginning of a lengthy stretch of seasons which will find us repeatedly in the basement of the AFC East and stuck in a vicious cycle of tearing it all down every few years. If we could have held on for just one more year I think the front office's work would have manifested itself into more on-field wins and perhaps set the stage for a lengthy run of good competitive football. But instead because of our collective impatience and inability to see things through to thier fruition the Bills have now taken even more steps backwards and are now poised on the verge of becoming an NFL laughingstock for the foreseeable future. Cya
SHOUTBOX MONSTER! Posted March 29, 2006 Posted March 29, 2006 I'm willing to be patient. We will lose games, but the excitement of watching guys like Losman, Everitt, Evans, McGahee, Crowell, and McGee develop into stars will be enough to keep me watching the games. But I must say that if management waits too long, and Ralph passes on, we may regret this rebuilding strategy.
Tortured Soul Posted March 29, 2006 Posted March 29, 2006 If you start tearing apart your organization every couple years that you aren't among the league's elite, you will never be able maintain any type of continuity. 644985[/snapback] You have to acknowledge a middle ground between the leagues elite and where the Bills were. Most people on this board, I think, would view that as the playoffs, and Donahoe, in his five years, didn't even reach that middle ground.
Simon Posted March 29, 2006 Posted March 29, 2006 You have to acknowledge a middle ground between the leagues elite and where the Bills were. Most people on this board, I think, would view that as the playoffs, and Donahoe, in his five years, didn't even reach that middle ground. 645108[/snapback] I'm more inclined to think that the playoffs are where the league's elite wind up and that middle ground is just outside the playoffs, or where the Bills found themselves after Donahoe spent two years cleaning up the NFL's absolute worst cap/roster situation. They were puttting together a good young nucleus, playing competitively in the NFL's toughest division and getting better every year. But one step backwards and everybody flips out and Ralph blows it all up. I'm just afraid we're now going to be rueing that impatience for many many years. Cya
Tortured Soul Posted March 29, 2006 Posted March 29, 2006 12 of 32 teams make the playoffs every year - 38% isn't exactly elite. And falling to 5-11 is a considerable step back - it's like falling off a cliff. We were in the bottom quarter of the league last year. That's with the dregs.
Simon Posted March 29, 2006 Posted March 29, 2006 12 of 32 teams make the playoffs every year - 38% isn't exactly elite. And falling to 5-11 is a considerable step back - it's like falling off a cliff. We were in the bottom quarter of the league last year. That's with the dregs. 645120[/snapback] When you lose your 2 best defensive players, plug in a rookie QB, and suffer a rash of injuries to your OLine, that's to be expected. I hardly think it's a legitimate reason to tear up a stable organization and lose a bunch of front office people who are highly regarded around the league. This is probably going to get worse before it ends badly.......
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