Up the Bills gut.

[DeLuca1967]

I know there is time left. June 1st cuts and the Draft are still avenues for the Bills to improve. Next to the offensive line I would like to see the Bills address the gut of the defense.

 

Tripplet 6' 1" 295 lbs

Fletcher 5' 10" 245 lbs

Bowen 6' 1' 203 lbs (biggest of the Safeties)

 

That's not a lot of size right up the gut of the defense. Haloti Ngata is a player who can bring instant size. 6' 4" 340 lbs. I can't see the Bills going in another direction which such a huge hole in the center of the defense.

[Max Fischer]

I know there is time left. June 1st cuts and the Draft are still avenues for the Bills to improve. Next to the offensive line I would like to see the Bills address the gut of the defense.

 

Tripplet  6' 1" 295 lbs

Fletcher 5' 10" 245 lbs

Bowen 6' 1' 203 lbs (biggest of the Safeties)

 

That's not a lot of size right up the gut of the defense. Haloti Ngata is a player who can bring instant size. 6' 4"  340 lbs. I can't see the Bills going in another direction which such a huge hole in the center of the defense.

643162[/snapback]

 

How do they compare to other teams? For all I know this makes no difference at all. We've had plenty of big players who couldn't stop a turtle.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

OK. Let's try this again, since you've obviously had a hard time getting a straight answer from this bunch the first time.

 

I don't know the responsibilities of the 'other' DT in the Dungy/Kiffin Tampa Bay cover-2 (TBC2) defensive scheme. I remember they had DT Warren Sapp playing alot of 1-gap - either a 1 technique (shade off the C), 2i tech (shade inside the OG), or the 3-tech (shade outside the OG). This made the interior O linemen reset their 'base' after the snap to get a piece of the undersized, but quick, Sapp (6'2" - 300lb). I'd say that Triplett (6'2" - 295lb) and Anderson (6'3" - 304lb) will be used much the same way as Sapp.

 

I'm assuming (yeah, I know ) that the 'other' DT in this D would have to be an aggressive 2-gapper who can demand double-teams. That guy's not on the roster yet. Our heftiest guy is 310lb. I can't see Fewell(?) starting the season with two relatively small DTs in the front four, but he better convince Marv to get him some beef to anchor the middle or as you say, Fletcher will see alot of guys getting to him off combo blocks (C or OG chips the DT, then heads upfield for a LB) because the DTs can both be handled.

 

Also, something else for Fewell to lose sleep about.... Whose his Simeon Rice?

Schobel, Kelsay?

Whose his Derrick Brooks or Shelton Quarles?

Kiffin still run s the TBC2 for Gruden and he's got 7 out of 8 LBs on the roster who are 235 or lighter. I'm thinking they're fast. Fewell currently has 7 out of 8 LBs who are 235 or heavier!

 

Our entire D roster needs an overhaul. Getting faster at SS is a start. I've never seen Bowen play, but I hear he's faster than Milloy. Vincent's a converted CB, so he can handle his side. But who is Fewell gonna drop back into the deep middle of the TBC2? We don't have LB's that match up well in what's basically a cover-3 using an LB with the safeties. Spikes is probably our most athletic LB and he's coming off a bad wheel.

 

It's gonna be interesting.

[DeLuca1967]

OK. Let's try this again, since you've obviously had a hard time getting a straight answer from this bunch the first time. 

 

I don't know the responsibilities of the 'other' DT in the Dungy/Kiffin Tampa Bay cover-2 (TBC2) defensive scheme. I remember they had DT Warren Sapp playing alot of 1-gap - either a 1 technique (shade off the C), 2i tech (shade inside the OG), or the 3-tech (shade outside the OG). This made the interior O linemen reset their 'base' after the snap to get a piece of the undersized, but quick, Sapp (6'2" - 300lb). I'd say that Triplett (6'2" - 295lb) and Anderson (6'3" - 304lb) will be used much the same way as Sapp.

 

I'm assuming (yeah, I know  ) that the 'other' DT in this D would have to be an aggressive 2-gapper who can demand double-teams. That guy's not on the roster yet. Our heftiest guy is 310lb. I can't see Fewell(?) starting the season with two relatively small DTs in the front four, but he better convince Marv to get him some beef to anchor the middle or as you say, Fletcher will see alot of guys getting to him off combo blocks (C or OG chips the DT, then heads upfield for a LB) because the DTs can both be handled.

 

Also, something else for Fewell to lose sleep about.... Whose his Simeon Rice?

Schobel, Kelsay?

Whose his Derrick Brooks or Shelton Quarles?

Kiffin still run s the TBC2 for Gruden and he's got 7 out of 8 LBs on the roster who are 235 or lighter. I'm thinking they're fast. Fewell currently has 7 out of 8 LBs who are 235 or heavier!

 

Our entire D roster needs an overhaul. Getting faster at SS is a start. I've never seen Bowen play, but I hear he's faster than Milloy. Vincent's a converted CB, so he can handle his side. But who is Fewell gonna drop back into the deep middle of the TBC2? We don't have LB's that match up well in what's basically a cover-3 using an LB with the safeties. Spikes is probably our most athletic LB and he's coming off a bad wheel.

 

It's gonna be interesting.

643178[/snapback]

 

I saw your first response. Thanks again. On the advice of another poster I started this thread.

[VABills]

I know there is time left. June 1st cuts and the Draft are still avenues for the Bills to improve. Next to the offensive line I would like to see the Bills address the gut of the defense.

 

Tripplet  6' 1" 295 lbs

Fletcher 5' 10" 245 lbs

Bowen 6' 1' 203 lbs (biggest of the Safeties)

 

That's not a lot of size right up the gut of the defense. Haloti Ngata is a player who can bring instant size. 6' 4"  340 lbs. I can't see the Bills going in another direction which such a huge hole in the center of the defense.

643162[/snapback]

Anderson 304 pounds is the other projected DT.

[DeLuca1967]

How do they compare to other teams?  For all I know this makes no difference at all. We've had plenty of big players who couldn't stop a turtle.

643168[/snapback]

 

I'll take the Pats for example since they are the standard in the NFL.

 

Tackle - Wilfolk 6-2 325

Backer - Vrabel 6-4 261

Safety - Harrison 6-1 220

 

I know there is more to it then pounds and height. The Bills are due to play some really good runningbacks this season. I can see teams wearing the Bills out up the middle. I would prefer to have teams forced to run to the outside where Spikes and Fletcher can do what they best. Run side to side. Fletcher can't make plays with a 300 pound gaurd in his chest.

[bobblehead]

I think you are right in a way, but I think the real reason Buffalo is going to go DT early in the draft is not entirely due to size up front, but because they want a someone to challenge Tim Anderson.

 

I really believe the overall theme to the Marv administration is to "challenge the youth that is there now" And the two main people that will be addressed are JP Losman and Tim Anderson. Not that Buffalo hates them, but that these two should not be entitled to their spots on the team.

 

 

Thanks for the thread.

[stuckincincy]

I think you are right in a way, but I think the real reason Buffalo is going to go DT early in the draft is not entirely due to size up front, but because they want a someone to challenge Tim Anderson. 

 

I really believe the overall theme to the Marv administration is to "challenge the youth that is there now"  And the two main people that will be addressed are JP Losman and Tim Anderson.  Not that Buffalo hates them, but that these two should not be entitled to their spots on the team.

Thanks for the thread.

643208[/snapback]

 

Seems a little early to throw in the towel for those two...

[bobblehead]

Seems a little early to throw in the towel for those two...

643220[/snapback]

 

 

I'm sorry, that's not what I meant. I mean that Marv wants to challenge them, not replace them.

[stuckincincy]

I'm sorry, that's not what I meant.  I mean that Marv wants to challenge them, not replace them.

643229[/snapback]

 

Whew!

[Guest BackInDaDay]

I believe the Pats run a 3-4 as their base D so that kind of size is necessary.

 

Our new D will be built for speed. It will take a season or two to get the best personnel, but that's where we're heading.

 

At this moment we're too slow at LB for the TBC2. The LBs have too many coverage responsibilities. Fewell and Jauron may find it necessary to implement a base cover-2 until we get faster. Then he could supplement the pass-rush of our front 4 with a blitzing LB/CB. As good as Schobel has been in pressuring off his corner, he's going to have to step it up. I think Kelsay is a good 'containment' DE in run D, but he's going to have to elevate his game also to off pass-blocks.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

I think you are right in a way, but I think the real reason Buffalo is going to go DT early in the draft is not entirely due to size up front, but because they want a someone to challenge Tim Anderson. 

643208[/snapback]

 

I though Anderson did well last year. He's pretty quick, and gets into the backfield when playing as a 1-gap defender. No way he was going to replace Fat Pat as a 2-gapper while Adams played as a 1. That's why Mularkey and Gray had problems with Adams. When Anderson or Edwards were given the 1-gap responsibility and Adams the 2-gap, he would free-lance, trying to make plays and letting OL get to his LBs.

 

My intuition tells me that you need to have a larger, stronger man next to your smaller, quicker man to keep the O from blasting the DTs off the line. With that in mind, Triplett and Anderson will rotate as the 1-gap defender. So where's our big guy? If we don't trade down, Ngata.

[DeLuca1967]

With Clements and McGee being great tacklers on the corners is a Bills defensive strength. Forceing teams to the outside, IMO, is a must. If Fewell and Jauron feel Anderson is up to the task and they go elsewhere in the draft? Any chance of them toying with the idea of moving Spikes inside? Fletcher is good, don't get me wrong, but a year older and a step slower. Having him play weakside gives him less ground to cover. I think it would make him more effective. Then you're looking at an inside of Anderseon, Tripplett and Spikes. Then add the speed of Huff at safety?

 

It's way too early. But's it's going to be a lot of fun going over all the possible combinations.

[crackur]

we were lucky that sam and pat did good

 

but look at the raiders when they had ted and sapp...................ewwww they didnt do anything with those monsters......haha I know, because thats my fiancee fav team........every sunday it was "get ur fatass moving and stop somebody" "Geez just fall and block that route"

 

haha

 

big is not always better lol

[The Jokeman]

I know there is time left. June 1st cuts and the Draft are still avenues for the Bills to improve. Next to the offensive line I would like to see the Bills address the gut of the defense.

 

Tripplet  6' 1" 295 lbs

Fletcher 5' 10" 245 lbs

Bowen 6' 1' 203 lbs (biggest of the Safeties)

 

That's not a lot of size right up the gut of the defense. Haloti Ngata is a player who can bring instant size. 6' 4"  340 lbs. I can't see the Bills going in another direction which such a huge hole in the center of the defense.

643162[/snapback]

Let's look at the three other teams guts that run the Cover 2.

 

The #1 ranked D (according to yards allowed) was the Tampa Bay Bucs. He's the got of their defense:

 

Chris Hoven 6'2" 298 lbs and Booger McFarland 6'0" 300 lbs.

Shelton Quarles 6'1" 225 lbs.

Jermaine Phillips 6'1" 214 lbs and Will Allen 6'1" 200 lbs.

 

Now let's look at the roots of the Bills defense and the Chicago Bears, who ranked #2 in the leage in yards allowed.

 

Tommie Harris 6'3" 300 lbs and Ian Scott 6'3" 302 lbs.

Brian Urlacher 6'4" 258 lbs

Mike Brown 5'10" 207 lbs and Chris Harris 6'0" 200 lbs.

 

and finally the Colts, where Triplett came from from who ranked 11th overall in yards against.

 

Corey Simon 6'2" 293 lbs and Monte Reager 6'3" 285 lbs.

Rob Morris 6'2" 243 lbs.

Mike Doss 5-10 207 lbs and Bob Sanders 5'8: 207 lbs.

 

Size isn't shown to be needed with these other teams, that again all run a scheme similar to the one we're planning in implenting. So while we could take Ngata with our first pick we might be better off taking another player (right now I say Huff) and getting a quality DT later in the draft.

[stuckincincy]

May I suggest that teaching and insisting on good tackling technique - and results - trumps "1-gap, 2-gap, stand up and holler!, Cover 2, Cover Me, Cover that fellow behind that tree" ?

 

[DeLuca1967]

Let's look at the three other teams guts that run the Cover 2.

 

The #1 ranked D (according to yards allowed) was the Tampa Bay Bucs. He's the got of their defense:

 

Chris Hoven 6'2" 298 lbs and Booger McFarland 6'0" 300 lbs.

Shelton Quarles 6'1" 225 lbs.

Jermaine Phillips 6'1" 214 lbs and Will Allen 6'1" 200 lbs.

 

Now let's look at the roots of the Bills defense and the Chicago Bears, who ranked #2 in the leage in yards allowed.

 

Tommie Harris 6'3" 300 lbs and Ian Scott 6'3" 302 lbs.

Brian Urlacher 6'4" 258 lbs

Mike Brown 5'10" 207 lbs and Chris Harris 6'0" 200 lbs.

 

and finally the Colts, where Triplett came from from who ranked 11th overall in yards against.

 

Corey Simon 6'2" 293 lbs and Monte Reager 6'3" 285 lbs.

Rob Morris 6'2" 243 lbs.

Mike Doss 5-10 207 lbs and Bob Sanders 5'8: 207 lbs.

 

Size isn't shown to be needed with these other teams, that again all run a scheme similar to the one we're planning in implenting. So while we could take Ngata with our first pick we might be better off taking another player (right now I say Huff) and getting a quality DT later in the draft.

643489[/snapback]

 

I see what you're saying. But I'd trade the three I listed for any of the sets you listed. If you have enough talent you can make up for the lack of size.

[bobblehead]

I though Anderson did well last year.  He's pretty quick, and gets into the backfield when playing as a 1-gap defender.  No way he was going to replace Fat Pat as a 2-gapper while Adams played as a 1.  That's why Mularkey and Gray had problems with Adams.  When Anderson or Edwards were given the 1-gap responsibility and Adams the 2-gap, he would free-lance, trying to make plays and letting OL get to his LBs.

 

My intuition tells me that you need to have a larger, stronger man next to your smaller, quicker man to keep the O from blasting the DTs off the line.  With that in mind, Triplett and Anderson will rotate as the 1-gap defender.  So where's our big guy?  If we don't trade down, Ngata.

643253[/snapback]

 

 

I think Anderson was coming on as the year went on, too. Adams spent the year gambling by shooting through hoping he would be in place to make the wow play. I think he was playing for his next contract by always trying for the big highlight. This really did expose our LB's - especially with Spikes having a suspect achilles up until that final hit that put him out. I think Adams really cost us heavily. Reminds me of the time Lawrence Phillips was in San Francisco. I've heard numerous sources claim that it was Phillips' blocking skills that ended Steve Young's career.

 

Still, I really believe that Marv has a problem with players being given spots, rather than earning spots. I really think he wants Anderson to earn it.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

Let's look at the three other teams guts that run the Cover 2.

...

Size isn't shown to be needed with these other teams, that again all run a scheme similar to the one we're planning in implenting. So while we could take Ngata with our first pick we might be better off taking another player (right now I say Huff) and getting a quality DT later in the draft.

643489[/snapback]

 

Bottom line, we need 2 DTs that, combined, will keep opposing O-linemen from taking out our MLB. Also consider that out current tandem of Schobel/Kelsay doesn't compare well to TB's Rice/Spires or Chi's Brown/Ogunleye. Concessions may have to be made to remain strong against the run. Ngata might be that concession, but I rather not have to tie up our 1st round pick on guy who could be a 2-down NFL DT. Our big LBs are our available answer to that problem, but I don't think they're up to the task of chasing guys downfield all day.

 

I'm not sure how the Lovie Smith implements the Bear's version of that now infamous TB cover-2 (sorry Cincy ), but I bet he tries to keep Urlacher from chasing slot receivers and speedy TEs 30 yards downfield. Just as Quarles (TB) often takes that deep 1/3 from his OLB spot, maybe something similar's taking place with the Bears. Like the guy in the commercial says, "It's all about the match-ups". Huff would be a great pick. Hawk may be better because of the options his comination of strength and speed gives Fewell's schemes.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

and finally the Colts, where Triplett came from from who ranked 11th overall in yards against.

 

Corey Simon 6'2" 293 lbs and Monte Reager 6'3" 285 lbs.

Rob Morris 6'2" 243 lbs.

Mike Doss 5-10 207 lbs and Bob Sanders 5'8: 207 lbs.

 

643489[/snapback]

 

As Steve Martin used to say, "Let's get small."

 

Colts MLB was Gary Brackett (5'11" - 235lb)....

 

"Brackett, who moved into the starting linebacker role last season after two seasons as a nickel linebacker/special teams player, started all 16 games after playing in all but one game the previous two seasons. He emerged quickly as one of the top pass-defending linebackers in the league, defending five passes and intercepting three others. " Colt's website discussing their LBs. I should have remembered him - Rutgers grad.

 

Like Quarles and Brooks who can drop back into that deep 1/3 for Kiffin's Bucs, Dungy can use either Cato June (6' - 227lb) or Brackett.

 

Having multiple LB candidates that can assume that deep middle 1/3 is essential.

Where are ours?