Bullets and Bits

[Mile High]

Article

 

Here’s something you may or may not know.

 

Over the last ten years, of the twenty quarterbacks that have lined up under center for the Super Bowl, fifteen were selected to the Pro Bowl that same season.

 

Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady (three times), Donavan McNab, Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner (twice), John Elway (twice), Bret Favre (twice), Chris Chandler and Drew Bledsoe were all Pro Bowl quarterbacks the year they led their respective teams to the Super Bowl.

 

Only five of the past twenty signal callers who participated on Super Sunday weren’t Pro Bowlers that very year. Ben Roethlisberger missed three games this past year, costing him a trip to Hawaii. Jake Delhomme was a first-time starter in 2003 and has been to the Pro Bowl this past season. Kerry Collins didn’t make the Pro Bowl in 2000 but had the best season of his career for the Giants. He was invited to Hawaii previously in 1996. Steve McNair didn’t make the team in 1999 only because he missed five games. He’s a two-time Pro Bowler and former league MVP.

 

Only Trent Dilfer in 2000 with Baltimore failed to make the Pro Bowl without a legitimate excuse. He also happened to quarterback arguably one of the greatest defenses in NFL history.

 

That’s seventy-five percent of the time over the last ten years the quarterback on a Super Bowl team also was voted to the Pro Bowl. Ninety-five percent of the time that quarterback has been to at least one Pro Bowl prior or after their team making it all the way. The lone exception is Roethlisberger and that won’t last for long.

 

What’ the morale of the story? If you really want to go to the Super Bowl, you better have a Hawaii-bound quarterback.

 

For the Buffalo Bills, this may lead general manager Marv Levy to take a longer look at quarterback come April 29.

 

The first thing he needs to ask himself is if JP Losman is a Pro Bowl caliber quarterback. Although it would be extremely unjust to base his career on 2005, the fact is he’s yet to establish he’s even worthy of being a starter. His liability or not, Losman was 1-7 in games he started and the majority of them weren’t pretty.

 

With Kelly Holcomb, what you see is what you get; and what you get is someone who isn’t booking any trips to Hawaii unless it’s a family vacation at season’s end.

 

The Bills did sign Craig Nall, former third-stringer from Green Bay and Levy pledged top him an opportunity to start. Sure, it’s viable he could win the job and go on to big things, but there’s a lot more Jim Druckenmiller’s roaming the league than Jim Kelly’s. Nall has thrown all of 33 passes in his two-year Packer career. None of those throws came last year.

 

There are three top-ten locks at quarterback in the draft and only Matt Leinart is sure to be gone before Buffalo picks at eight. There’s a fine chance either Jay Cutler or Vince Young could still be on the board.

 

If reports and projections on these quarterback prospects turn out accurate, Levy may regret not taking whichever one is left.

 

Rob Rang, senior editor for nfldraftscout.com, calls this trio of quarterbacks one of the finest since 1983 when Elway, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino entered the league.

 

Having coached Kelly, Levy grasps the magnitude of having a franchise Pro Bowl quarterback. The Bills went to four straight Super Bowls for a lot of reasons, but none were bigger than that of Kelly’s arm.

 

At 6’4" and 225 pounds, Cutler poses model size for a quarterback and has proven he can make all the throws a quality quarterback needs to be successful in this league.

 

"He’s impressive with all his throws but is especially impressive with his deep outs and squeezing the ball through small openings," said NFL.com’s national editor Vic Carucci. "He has great intelligence and patience in the pocket."

 

NFL Draft Almanac’s Matt Miller is awed with his toughness as well as his physical ability.

 

"He is an extremely tough individual, playing hard despite leaky pass protection, and that's being generous," Miller said. "He rises to the occasion, nearly upsetting Florida almost on his own, and leading Vanderbilt to victory over hated rival Tennessee."

 

Young is not the traditional quarterback Cutler is, but he proved in college he’s one of the greatest winners the sport’s ever seen, and his Rose Bowl performances were legendary.

 

"Young has an exception combination of size (He’s 6’5"/230) and off-the-charts athleticism that makes him an extremely rare talent," Carucci said. "He showed tremendous poise in leading the Longhorns and scoring his winning touchdown run for the national championship in the Rose Bowl, the biggest football stage this side of the Super Bowl."

 

Miller says many will compare Young to Michael Vick, but doing so would be a mistake.

 

"Young has the rare ability to make defenders miss and also punish them with this strength," said Miller. "Many people will compare him to Michael Vick, but Young is easily 6'5 and weighs around 230lbs right now. Vick is under 6' and weighs around 200lbs, so there is a visible difference when looking at the two of them."

 

Leinart is hardly even pointed out as a draft candidate and with good reason; the Bills simply aren’t getting him unless they’re willing to trade up. On a team with so many interior needs trading up wouldn’t appear to make much sense.

 

Still, Miller sees things in Leinart that make him worth it.

 

"He's the definition of a leader, a poised and field-tested general of his team," Miller said. "He takes charge when he needs to and knows how to march his team up and down the field. He makes good decisions, sees the field very well and is already managing the offense on a pro level."

 

Yes, it’s truthful the Bills desperately need to fix their offensive and defensive lines. Tom Donahoe’s rule as general manager proved a band-aid here and there won’t cover this wound. But reality is no single draft will fix both sides of the line.

 

The Bills are going nowhere in 2006, part of the reason you’ve seen an oversupply of younger players brought in as free agents. This team is looking to build a foundation for the future, and that’s both respectable and logical.

 

Based on what the past ten years have showed us, if they want their future to include a Super Bowl appearance, they ought to have a Pro Bowl quarterback, whether he’s already on the roster or waiting to get his name called in a few short weeks.

 

Naturally, a quarterback is only as good as his offensive line. The Bills will have plenty of draft picks to address this problem, one more if Losman is traded. They also have the ability to sign more free agents after June 1.

[Acantha]

Rob Rang, senior editor for nfldraftscout.com, calls this trio of quarterbacks one of the finest since 1983 when Elway, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino entered the league.

 

I stopped reading after that. Anyone who has the balls to say this (not to mention repeat it) can not be taken seriously.

[eSJayDee]

Interesting fact, but I think an argument could be made that it's incorrectly assuming cause and effect.

Often the reason those guys made the PB was that their teams were very good which in turn made them look good.

I will concede that it is difficult to make the SB w/o 'decent' QBing, but I think w/ an adequate support either Holcolm &/or JP would fit that bill. (I don't recall seeing Nall at all so I reserve judgement on him.)

[Max Fischer]

How many people accurately predicted the career path to the Pro Bowl for these players through their first 9 starts?

 

Farve - please

Hasselback - nope

Brad Johnson?

Rich Gannon? (after which comeback?)

Certainly not Tom "F'in" Brady

Kurt Warner? (before or after he bagged groceries)

Chandler?

Delhomme? Who?

 

Those who took a while to jell after high expectations: Kerry Collins, McNabb.

 

Only JR and Bledsoe paid immediate dividends (even Elway had to get a good team around him), all the others had to develop and their careers we're unpredictable at best. All benefited from playing on good teams (some more than others), good coaching, patience and playing time.

 

To predict JP's career is a crapshoot at best; and the only way to know if he can play is to put together a half-decent team and LET HIM PLAY.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Another idiot beating the drum to draft a QB.

[VABills]

To predict JP's career is a crapshoot at best; and the only way to know if he can play is to put together a half-decent team and LET HIM PLAY.

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We were 4-4 with another QB as the starter.

 

We had less sacks with a career backup as the starter, a guy who wears cement shoes.

 

Again, I don't know the answer, I just know what the answer isn't. Right now that includes two of the guys on our roster.

[scribo]

The Bills drafting a QB = dumbest thing anyone could do this draft.

 

The Bills have three QBs who could start in the NFL today. The Bills have good chunk of change tied up in these three. The Bills invested a lot of picks in one of these QBs. The Bills do not really know how good two of these QBs may be, and they may be very good.

[VABills]

The Bills drafting a QB = dumbest thing anyone could do this draft.

 

The Bills have three QBs who could start in the NFL today. The Bills have good chunk of change tied up in these three. The Bills invested a lot of picks in one of these QBs. The Bills do not really know how good two of these QBs may be, and they may be very good.

643084[/snapback]

 

Name one?

 

We have a 3rd stringer from GB, a 1-7 guy who looks like a blind epileptic squirrel, and a career backup who had about 7 starts before last year.

 

Be realistic, none of these guys would start elsewhere in the NFL>

[Max Fischer]

We were 4-4 with another QB as the starter.

 

We had less sacks with a career backup as the starter, a guy who wears cement shoes. 

 

Again, I don't know the answer, I just know what the answer isn't.  Right now that includes two of the guys on our roster.

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Remember JP won the KC game Kelly started. Going into last season, JP had 5 career pass attempts, Kelly had over 800.

 

Bottomline: we don't know what we have in JP. To say otherwise is either being a wuss and/or a crusader.

 

Moreover, you cannot say that JP can't be the guy if you also say we had a horrible OLine, bad playcalling, no run game, a sieve for a defense which meant playing from behind, or recievers who didn't get open.

 

God knows we've heard you go on and on about these problems but it doesn't stop you from declaring JP is not the answer at QB. If we do not fix these problems than no one (especially a rookie QB) can succeed.

 

Stop the useless crusade against JP and start to think about what it will take for him to succeed at QB.

[VABills]

Remember JP won the KC game Kelly started.  Going into last season, JP had 5 career pass attempts, Kelly had over 800. 

 

Bottomline: we don't know what we have in JP.  To say otherwise is either being a wuss and/or a crusader. 

 

Moreover, you cannot say that JP can't be the guy if you also say we had a horrible OLine, bad playcalling, no run game, a sieve for a defense which meant playing from behind, or recievers who didn't get open.

 

God knows we've heard you go on and on about these problems but it doesn't stop you from declaring JP is not the answer at QB.  If we do not fix these problems than no one (especially a rookie QB) can succeed.

 

Stop the useless crusade against JP and start to think about what it will take for him to succeed at QB.

643139[/snapback]

And stop crusading that the blind epileptic retarded squirrel is the answer.

[Max Fischer]

And stop crusading that the blind epileptic retarded squirrel is the answer.

643144[/snapback]

 

Good Lord, VA. You just don't get it, do you?

 

I'm only crusading to get people to see that we don't know what we have in JP and to dismiss him after nine games is pure stupidity. I don't know if he's the answer and neither do you. But the certainty you and others display demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of football, leadership and strategic thinking.

 

You can't possibly say the Bills "suck" everyday, day after day, 10,000 posts after 10,000 posts without coming up with at least one reasonable, rational gameplan. It makes no sense to go on and on about all the problems with the Bills and expect a second year QB to shine but then fully expect the NEXT QB to do well under the same circumstances.

 

It's even more pathetic when you expect a ROOKIE QB to succeed or some imaginary veteran QB who'll come in, go to pro bowl and take us to the promise land without explaning WHY they would be that much different than JP.

 

Grow some balls and stop acting like a 10 year old. No, wait, many 10 years old I know are capable of rational thought.

[VABills]

Good Lord, VA. You just don't get it, do you?

 

I'm only crusading to get people to see that we don't know what we have in JP and to dismiss him after nine games is pure stupidity.  I don't know if he's the answer and neither do you.  But the certainty you and others display demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of football, leadership and strategic thinking.

 

You can't possibly say the Bills "suck" everyday, day after day, 10,000 posts after 10,000 posts without coming up with at least one reasonable, rational gameplan.  It makes no sense to go on and on about all the problems with the Bills and expect a second year QB to shine but then fully expect the NEXT QB to do well under the same circumstances.

 

It's even more pathetic when you expect a ROOKIE QB to succeed or some imaginary veteran QB who'll come in, go to pro bowl and take us to the promise land without explaning WHY they would be that much different than JP.

 

Grow some balls and stop acting like a 10 year old.  No, wait, many 10 years old I know are capable of rational thought.

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No I don't say the Bills suck.

 

But I have eyes, I have friends with some eyes, who do know what they are talking about in regards to NFL skills. All I have heard from those friends is the blind epileptic squirrel doesn't have "it". I didn't "crusade" against JP during the entire season, as I commited to that just before the season started. I commited to giving him every benefit and looking for good things. Well the seasons over, and I have been pretty quiet on the issue. But it's interesting that more and more people are starting to see that he isn't the answer.

 

Again I don't know the solution, but I know what it isn't. I don't know much about Nall so maybe he is, but the other two are not going to get us into the super bowl.

[Max Fischer]

No I don't say the Bills suck. 

 

But I have eyes, I have friends with some eyes, who do know what they are talking about in regards to NFL skills.  All I have heard from those friends is the blind epileptic squirrel doesn't have "it".  I didn't "crusade" against JP during the entire season, as I commited to that just before the season started.  I commited to giving him every benefit and looking for good things.  Well the seasons over, and I have been pretty quiet on the issue.  But it's interesting that more and more people are starting to see that he isn't the answer. 

 

Again I don't know the solution, but I know what it isn't.  I don't know much about Nall so maybe he is, but the other two are not going to get us into the super bowl.

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The way I see it we're not going to win games (let alone the Super Bowl) unless:

 

1. We have a much better OLine with some semblance of a run game and give the QB at least adequate opportunity to make the play.

 

2. Can adequately stop the run and not give up every other 3rd and Long.

 

3. Have an offensive and defensive identity; i.e. gameplan that can improve game to game.

 

I honestly don't know if JP is the answer or not. I just don't think it's possible to write him off or have no hope he can succeed unless we address the broad problems above.

 

I see Holcomb as a "safe" choice but not taking us to the SB unless our defense is superb (not likely); Nall is a total question mark, while even the biggest cynic can agree that JP has great potential (or a great bust). I just don't see any legitimate alternative and no reason to draft another QB or bring in another FA because I don't think ANY QB will help the team succeed if we don't build around them.

 

In other words, there is enough "potential" in JP to make him way down the list of problems to address first.

[34-78-83]

The way I see it we're not going to win games (let alone the Super Bowl) unless:

 

1. We have a much better OLine with some semblance of a run game and give the QB at least adequate opportunity to make the play.

 

2. Can adequately stop the run and not give up every other 3rd and Long.

 

3. Have an offensive and defensive identity; i.e. gameplan that can improve game to game. 

 

I honestly don't know if JP is the answer or not.  I just don't think it's possible to write him off or have no hope he can succeed unless we address the broad problems above.

 

I see Holcomb as a "safe" choice but not taking us to the SB unless our defense is superb (not likely); Nall is a total question mark, while even the biggest cynic can agree that JP has great potential (or a great bust).  I just don't see any legitimate alternative and no reason to draft another QB or bring in another FA because I don't think ANY QB will help the team succeed if we don't build around them.

 

In other words, there is enough "potential" in JP to make him way down the list of problems to address first.

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Give it up max. You're not going to convince him otherwise. You can't tell some people that NOBODY here or elsewhere knows right now whether JP has "it" or not. Not until he plays significantly more games. His "friends with eyes" mean much more to him than his friends with eyes who attend games and practices as well.

[VABills]

Give it up max. You're not going to convince him otherwise. You can't tell some people that NOBODY here or elsewhere knows right now whether JP has "it" or not. Not until he plays significantly more games. His "friends with eyes" mean much more to him than his friends with eyes who attend games and practices as well.

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I watch every game, been to games, been to practices. I know what I see. And he doesn't have "it". As I said, it he proves me wrong I will be eating a big old plate of crow, gladly.

[MDH]

We were 4-4 with another QB as the starter.

643081[/snapback]

 

Once again you try to pad Holcomb's win column with the KC game simply because he took the first snap from center.

[34-78-83]

I watch every game, been to games, been to practices.  I know what I see.  And he doesn't have "it".  As I said, it he proves me wrong I will be eating a big old plate of crow, gladly.

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You might know what you see, but you certainly are not seeing whether or not he has "it". Sorry. None of us know this right now, nor does anybody in the Bill's organization. Not until he's given more time.

[Ghost of BiB]

I stopped reading after that.  Anyone who has the balls to say this (not to mention repeat it) can not be taken seriously.

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Pretty much. One will be hard pressed to EVER see a class of '83 again. Besides those three, several others had decent careers.

[Lurker]

Interesting fact, but I think an argument could be made that it's incorrectly assuming cause and effect.

Often the reason those guys made the PB was that their teams were very good which in turn made them look good.

643012[/snapback]

 

How could reporters ever mix those two factors up?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

You have friends with eyes that are saying what you want to hear, so therefore they know what they're talking about. For every person who supposedly know what they're talking about, there's another person who states as I believe, "we don't know what we have in JP. 8 games isn't enough to tell!" The odds are in your favor of being right as over 50% of top name QB's never suceed in the NFL. There are 32 teams in the NFL and probably about a dozen top shelf QB's. Considering how hard it is to find one, you don't want to give up on one before you're certain.

 

People are critizing the Bills for not going after Bree's. Funny though how he totally sucked his first two years so bad that San Diago used another #1 pick on a QB. So here you have all the people in their front office couldn't tell that Bree's was going to improve, but you and your friends are alot smarter and can tell over even less time that JP won't succeed. And that was only after SD other first round failure Ryan Leaf. So in less than ten years they've used 3 1st round picks on QB's and next year, they may be worse off than they were last year with a total unknown in Rivers.

 

The article quotes: "there’s a lot more Jim Druckenmiller’s roaming the league than Jim Kelly’s" Well there also are alot more first round flops than Jim Kelly's so who's to say any of those three will be any good. In fact I'll guarentee of those three, Leinhart, Young, Cutler, at least one of them will be a failure. The problem is today, you just don't know which one. For every person stating the Bill's should take Young, someone else states how he's a flop waiting to happen.

 

 

No I don't say the Bills suck. 

 

But I have eyes, I have friends with some eyes, who do know what they are talking about in regards to NFL skills.  All I have heard from those friends is the blind epileptic squirrel doesn't have "it".  I didn't "crusade" against JP during the entire season, as I commited to that just before the season started.  I commited to giving him every benefit and looking for good things.  Well the seasons over, and I have been pretty quiet on the issue.  But it's interesting that more and more people are starting to see that he isn't the answer. 

 

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