eball Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 I have to believe you've never bought a house. If I'm wrong, then I apologize and am quite frankly a bit more than a little surprised. Buy a house. Let us know how simple it is to make the offer. Then the counter offer. Then the counter to their counter. Then the forms when you agree to a price, and the contingencies. Then the escrow docs. Then the closing docs. And then all the docs required for selling your house before you buy the new one. The offer on your house and the counteroffer to the buyers, etc., etc., etc. I have a pile of paperwork from my last sale and purchase that stands eight inches tall. 643704[/snapback] My point is at least partially sarcastic. I recognize the NEED for someone to assist with the process; I'm simply wholly dissatisfied with the group of "professionals" who purport to fill that need. And again, I don't expect a realtor to explain all of the closing documents and find my mortgage. I DO expect that they will serve my best interests and not their own. In answer to your somewhat condescending "suggestion" -- I've bought four homes and sold three. I never hired a realtor, for a couple of reasons: first, I've worked as a real estate attorney and personally closed several hundred real estate transactions. Second, my wife has worked as an agent and is very familiar with the process. You would all be so lucky to have her represent you. But I've been to real estate office cocktail parties and heard these "professionals" talk about their deals; I've witnessed the unethical behavior firsthand. I took great joy in negotiating the pants off the realtor representing the buyers who bought my last house. His "professional" advice to his clients ended up costing them thousands of dollars. Look, I'm glad if realtors have done good jobs for people; there are ethical, professional folks in the industry. Unfortunately, there's really no good way to research the integrity of an agent and you have to go by word of mouth. If the people referring the agent to you don't know any better, you could be in trouble. Like I said, the industry sucks.
Chef Jim Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Bad example, Chef. The car salesman doesn't belong to an "association" that purports to adhere to the highest standards of ethical behavior...and more importantly, the car salesman doesn't purport to act in the BUYER'S best interests. Realtors do both, but the "two-way" transactions rife with conflicts of interest described by Paul happen routinely. I will always agree that a person should do as much research as possible when making any large purchasing decision, but if you have to do all the work, what is the need for the Realtor? Shouldn't you be justified in relying upon the supposed expertise of a "professional" you have hired? 643690[/snapback] The example was more for the dollar amount of the transactions. In the original post the seller was told his house was worth the same as a house that was 1000 sf larger and took her word for it. Anyone who owns a house should know exactly what they can get for it. Just pay attention to the comps in the area. We actually got our house for less than the listing 4 years ago. You think the market is hot now, it was smoking then. How did I do that. Research and made an offer. Also we were in the perfect situation for them. We were renting, they were building a new house and needed flexible buyers. Oh and by the way, if you don't trust realtors...........do it yourself.
plenzmd1 Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 The example was more for the dollar amount of the transactions. In the original post the seller was told his house was worth the same as a house that was 1000 sf larger and took her word for it. Anyone who owns a house should know exactly what they can get for it. Just pay attention to the comps in the area. We actually got our house for less than the listing 4 years ago. You think the market is hot now, it was smoking then. How did I do that. Research and made an offer. Also we were in the perfect situation for them. We were renting, they were building a new house and needed flexible buyers. Oh and by the way, if you don't trust realtors...........do it yourself. 643766[/snapback] Chef, I think ya nailed it with this one. I think as Eball and I have said, and as you just articulted, why trust the realtor? If they bring nothing mote to the table than the ability to fill out forms and they intimidate you, use a real estate lawyer, hell of a lot cheaper than paying 5% commision. I really think that was my only point. Most people who have not done several real estate tansactions look to "Realtors" to be their their guide, and trust their advice. What i am saying is that nine times out of ten, that advice will benefit them much more than you. And BTW, have bought 5 homes and sold 4, the last two sales without agents. In other words, I think we are saying the same thing. Why pay the 5% when you need to do all your own research anyway. As a last note, the one benefit of that %%, getting listed in the MLS, is now possible using the various"help You Sell" outfits now operating
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 I love those old houses. There are some very solid craftsman homes here that they just don't make anymore. Our home was built about 7 years ago. I'm afraid to sneeze too hard sometimes. The first rumblings of the next big one and I'm out the window. 643688[/snapback] Yeah, you should have seen some of the nonsense we saw. We saw one new construction, "ready to move in", where none of the doors were hung square (one door to the back deck had actually carved a gouge in the floor), the windows were friggin' painted shut, the carpet had paint drops all over it, and whatever yahoo finished the deck didn't bother to cover anything, so there's overspray all over the siding and windows!!! The wife does settlements for new constructions; some of the stories about construction quality she has are ridiculous...like the luxury condos a developer built, forgetting to install the ductwork. The lawsuits drove them out of business in short order. Personally, I'm happy to own something from an era when they valued craftsmanship and took pride in their work.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 The example was more for the dollar amount of the transactions. In the original post the seller was told his house was worth the same as a house that was 1000 sf larger and took her word for it. Anyone who owns a house should know exactly what they can get for it. Just pay attention to the comps in the area. We actually got our house for less than the listing 4 years ago. You think the market is hot now, it was smoking then. How did I do that. Research and made an offer. Also we were in the perfect situation for them. We were renting, they were building a new house and needed flexible buyers. Oh and by the way, if you don't trust realtors...........do it yourself. 643766[/snapback] Like what we did. This house is in line with the comps in the area...a little over, actually, but it's a bit of a nicer house as well, and could probably have gone for more (one couple I overheard looking at it was talking about offerring $25k more than us...but the owner liked us better. )
IDBillzFan Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 In answer to your somewhat condescending "suggestion" -- I've bought four homes and sold three. I never hired a realtor, for a couple of reasons: first, I've worked as a real estate attorney and personally closed several hundred real estate transactions.643759[/snapback] I had not intention on coming across as condescending, but I will admit I'm stunned to read that you closed hundreds of real estate transactions, and then ask the question "...but if you have to do all the work, what is the need for the Realtor?" Your experience makes you the exception to the general rule of home buying in that you clearly know everything there is to know about buying and selling a home, legally and logistically. Most people don't know what you know so to assume they do makes my condescension pale in comparison to your assumptions about the average buyer. Most people -- the people who haven't closed several hundred real estate deals and are married to a realtor -- rely on a realtor to get them through the process, and it's on the customer to find the right realtor. Yes, most realtors are unethical, if for no other reason than because any moron with the ability to scribble their name with a pencil can be a realtor. But the customer has to find the one they can trust, be it by interviewing them or getting references, etc. Personally I think the bigger problem lies with the mortgage brokers and their "bread-and-butter" no interest loans.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 In answer to your somewhat condescending "suggestion" -- I've bought four homes and sold three. I never hired a realtor, for a couple of reasons: first, I've worked as a real estate attorney and personally closed several hundred real estate transactions. Second, my wife has worked as an agent and is very familiar with the process. You would all be so lucky to have her represent you. 643759[/snapback] And LA's condescending? Hello, pot? This is kettle...you're black.
Chef Jim Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Chef, I think ya nailed it with this one. I think as Eball and I have said, and as you just articulted, why trust the realtor? If they bring nothing mote to the table than the ability to fill out forms and they intimidate you, use a real estate lawyer, hell of a lot cheaper than paying 5% commision. I really think that was my only point. Most people who have not done several real estate tansactions look to "Realtors" to be their their guide, and trust their advice. What i am saying is that nine times out of ten, that advice will benefit them much more than you. And BTW, have bought 5 homes and sold 4, the last two sales without agents. In other words, I think we are saying the same thing. Why pay the 5% when you need to do all your own research anyway. As a last note, the one benefit of that %%, getting listed in the MLS, is now possible using the various"help You Sell" outfits now operating 643779[/snapback] Actually I think you took it the wrong way. means sarcasm. I pay a realtor, one I trust, one that came highly referred so I can do what I do for a living. The time I would spend doing the realtors job could be spent doing my job which pays me quite well so I will come out better in the long run hiring the realtor to do it. Just an FYI, in case you didn't know, I'm in the finacial services industry so when I get a good referral to a realtor or mortgage broker, I know I'm getting a good one.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Personally I think the bigger problem lies with the mortgage brokers and their "bread-and-butter" no interest loans. 643824[/snapback] Actually, having seen it from many different angles, I suspect the bigger problem lies in your typical transaction involves knowledge of: real estate sales, real estate law, construction, land recordation (which gets screwed up alarmingly frequently), finance including financial planning and mortgage banking, and an alarming shitload of administrata that has to be handled by someone. Expecting any one person to be knowledgable in all that is unrealistic; it is SO friggin' easy for things to get screwed up, with that many people involved. Between me and my wife, we've got about all of those topics covered (I can run comps, do an inspection, title work, finance and financial planning - when my wife doesn't max out her federal deductions . She's more up on process and law than most of the lawyers in her firm - she actually gets paid more for her expertise than they do for theirs.) And we're both still intimidated by this; it's far too easy to miss something because you didn't ask someone the right question.
IDBillzFan Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 it's far too easy to miss something because you didn't ask someone the right question.643833[/snapback] And all anyone has to do is screw up just ONE document, and the repercussions are painful and time-consuming as hell. By the way, not sure of the laws where you live, but I think it's best to hire a licensed and bonded dude to do the inspection so if something is missed, you have something to fall back on. Not questioning your ability to inspect as I'm certain you've inspected and closed several hundred homes ( ), but I always like to cover my ass.
Chef Jim Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 simon ,did you buy the house ?????????????? 643852[/snapback] After reading this thread I would assume not.
mead107 Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 After reading this thread I would assume not. 643880[/snapback] cheap bastard went in 20,000 under .
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 And all anyone has to do is screw up just ONE document, and the repercussions are painful and time-consuming as hell. By the way, not sure of the laws where you live, but I think it's best to hire a licensed and bonded dude to do the inspection so if something is missed, you have something to fall back on. Not questioning your ability to inspect as I'm certain you've inspected and closed several hundred homes ( ), but I always like to cover my ass. 643836[/snapback] As well as the title search, laws, etc...just because I can do something (and I have done a couple hundred title searches, believe it or not. Saved a friend in Amherst a couple hundred thousand on one once) doesn't mean I won't hire a professional. It just means I'll have a better idea of whether or not I'm getting shafted.
eball Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 And LA's condescending? Hello, pot? This is kettle...you're black. 643825[/snapback] I believe LA does just fine answering for himself. But thanks for butting in.
SDS Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I have a pile of paperwork from my last sale and purchase that stands eight inches tall. 643704[/snapback] Well, at least you have something that stands 8" tall...
eball Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I had not intention on coming across as condescending, but I will admit I'm stunned to read that you closed hundreds of real estate transactions, and then ask the question "...but if you have to do all the work, what is the need for the Realtor?" 643824[/snapback] Like it or not, you do often come across as condescending. I don't take it personally, but I also don't think I'm off base. Your experience makes you the exception to the general rule of home buying in that you clearly know everything there is to know about buying and selling a home, legally and logistically. Most people don't know what you know so to assume they do makes my condescension pale in comparison to your assumptions about the average buyer. 643824[/snapback] Now here's where you're wrong. I have made NO assumptions about the average buyer -- I have merely stated my own opinion, shaped by years of experience, that real estate agents are, by and large, a group of schmucks. ANYONE would do well to research his or her own real estate transaction thoroughly before relying upon one of them. Most people -- the people who haven't closed several hundred real estate deals and are married to a realtor -- rely on a realtor to get them through the process, and it's on the customer to find the right realtor. Yes, most realtors are unethical, if for no other reason than because any moron with the ability to scribble their name with a pencil can be a realtor. But the customer has to find the one they can trust, be it by interviewing them or getting references, etc. 643824[/snapback] Oh, my wife is not a realtor -- she wasn't naive enough to think that a 1-hour ethics course and hefty membership dues (the requirements for obtaining that coveted title) make her a better representative. She's simply a licensed agent. She took a job with a national builder and got out of direct sales so she wouldn't have to work weekends. Personally I think the bigger problem lies with the mortgage brokers and their "bread-and-butter" no interest loans. 643824[/snapback] Mortgage brokers are only slightly above realtors on the food chain. Yet another reason why the industry sucks.
Chef Jim Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 Mortgage brokers are only slightly above realtors on the food chain. Yet another reason why the industry sucks. 644080[/snapback] I disagree. Most realtors would like to sell you your next home. Mortgage brokers don't give a chit if they ever see you again. Actually they'd probably prefer you just went away once they got your money. At least realtors send you those really neat note pads.
BillsWatch Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 Yeah, which means instead of watching her from afar, I can hibbity-jibbity her any time I want. 640565[/snapback] Thinking you can hibbity-jibbity her anytime YOU want is leading cause for divorce. You can hibbity-jibbity her whenever SHE wants. I'd go slightly under asking price with normal clauses. Bought both my houses that way and real estate agents recommended I offer asking price. Anything not up to code HAS to be fixed (i.e. wiring) but it is the other things which can catch you. Watch out what comes with property and what doesn't. Local houses are extremely overpriced and being taxed at an even higher rate because they average sales to determine tax rates but there have been a number of newer houses which are part of our tax area which have had skyrocketing resales forcing all of our assessments higher. It is not fair and the neghboorhood group fought it but of course they lost. Oh and tax assessor lives in one of those houses which inflated our assessments.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I believe LA does just fine answering for himself. But thanks for butting in. 644074[/snapback] Butting in? It's a public board, nitwit. You don't want comments from the peanut gallery, take it to PM.
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