Ngata vs Bunkley

[ans4e64]

Strictly looking at the two players, i like bunkley better. As i have said in other posts, i feel that ngata is only a 2 down player and then has to come off the field on third down and i dont see paying a guy top 10 money to come off the field on the most crucial down. He has injury concerns and i find it odd that nobody was talking about him during the season.

 

However, since Bunkley is a lot smaller of a body, i worry how it would affect the make up of our team. We would have 2 smallish DT's in Tripplett and Bunkley along with a MLB that is 5'9''. Im thinking that it would be easy to run on us up the middle still, and wonder if Ngata being able to take up blockers so that fletcher can get free actually benefits our team more than Bunkley, even though as i said before i think he is the overall better player. I just worry about 3 small guys in the heart of our defense.

 

Does this problem of the 3 small guys lead us to favor ngata? or should you just take the better player in Bunkley?

[ch19079]

i thaught the better player was ngata, and thats why he is said to be a top 10 pick.

[stevewin]

From Kollar's quotes in the BB.com def coaches interview:

 

 

Are you looking for some bulk inside to complete the guys you have?

 

BK: How our scheme is set up I don't think you need a guy that is 350 or 400 pounds to stop the run. In St. Louis we had a guy that was 280 pounds and they didn't run on him. You've got to play with leverage and you've got to run to the ball. It takes all 11 guys to stop the run. The defensive tackles get blamed for getting ripped but you've got linebackers behind them and you've got safeties behind them. It takes everybody to be in the right gaps, playing the correct technique and running to the football. If somebody does break out you want somebody there to track him down. But some teams feel opposite and want that guy there that is 350 or 375. We don't feel that way. We want our guys in good condition where they can play an entire game and run to the ball every snap.

 

 

def coaches interview

[Acantha]

Strictly looking at the two players, i like bunkley better. As i have said in other posts, i feel that ngata is only a 2 down player and then has to come off the field on third down and i dont see paying a guy top 10 money to come off the field on the most crucial down. He has injury concerns and i find it odd that nobody was talking about him during the season.

 

However, since Bunkley is a lot smaller of a body, i worry how it would affect the make up of our team. We would have 2 smallish DT's in Tripplett and Bunkley along with a MLB that is 5'9''. Im thinking that it would be easy to run on us up the middle still, and wonder if Ngata being able to take up blockers so that fletcher can get free actually benefits our team more than Bunkley, even though as i said before i think he is the overall better player. I just worry about 3 small guys in the heart of our defense.

 

Does this problem of the 3 small guys lead us to favor ngata? or should you just take the better player in Bunkley?

639196[/snapback]

Why do you think he is a 2 down player? Because he is big? Did he come off the field on 3rd down in Oregon?

What is his injury concern? Did he have any injuries last season?

Nobody was talking about him during the season becuase he was a junior who was expected to stay in school. It wasn't until he had family problems that he decided to play pro. As soon as he did, he jumped to the top of draft charts.

 

Why do you feel Bunkley is a better player? Due to his combine 40 time? Anything else?

[tennesseeboy]

hey..what the hell. If the defensive tackle can't stop the run there are linebackers behind him and safeties behind them. Besides...the runner might bang into the goal posts on the first touchdown.

Seriously we need to stop the run. The best way to defeat the cover 2 is a strong inside running game...which draws the linebackers and safeties up and opens up...you guessed it..the long pass. We need a run stopper.

[BUFFALOTONE]

Why do you think he is a 2 down player?  Because he is big?  Did he come off the field on 3rd down in Oregon?

What is his injury concern?  Did he have any injuries last season? 

Nobody was talking about him during the season becuase he was a junior who was expected to stay in school.  It wasn't until he had family problems that he decided to play pro.  As soon as he did, he jumped to the top of draft charts.

 

Why do you feel Bunkley is a better player?  Due to his combine 40 time?  Anything else?

639214[/snapback]

 

Uh lets see he had 44 reps of 225, he is a chiseled 300lbs, not a lump of fat and he is perfect for our scheme. Why chose a guy that is 350 and will balloon in the offseason.Bunkley all the way.

[Acantha]

Uh lets see he had 44 reps of 225, he is a chiseled 300lbs, not a lump of fat and he is perfect for our scheme. Why chose a guy that is 350 and will balloon in the offseason.Bunkley all the way.

639300[/snapback]

That is still not an example of which one is the better DT. Ngata is not a blob of fat, though just saying so enough MAY make it true if you try really hard. And why will he blow up in the offseason? Cause you say so again?

Why does Bunkley fit our scheme perfectly when we already have Triplett?

 

Everyone wants to say Bunkley is better, but no one knows. No one. It's just the popular thing to say lately. Just another bandwagon. Keep on jumpin people.

[2003Contenders]

I think often there is a misconception about the term "2-down" player. It does not usually mean that the DT lacks the stamina to play 3 downs. It normally means that the player is well suited as a run stuffer -- and likley to be replaced by a pass rusher on obvious passing downs.

[SnakeOiler]

I really like Bunckley! I started watching him at the senior bowl practices....he clearly stood out from the other DTs there, and has gotten nothing but better.

 

However, I wouldn't say that he is better than Ngata.....Ngata did not play in the Sr. bowl (only a Jr), and did not work out at the combine. So you and the 'Mel Kipers' have not had the chance to see him as much.

 

Even tho I like Bunckley, I haven't been able to see Ngata at all, so I can't make a judgement. And, as smart as I am I still am going to rely on the NFL scouts who have been evaluating players professionally for over 20 years!

 

From what I am hearing, NGATA is better than Bunckley....at least that's what the experts say. How can you compare them side by side? (I assume you didn't go to Ngata's pro day?)

[BUFFALOTONE]

That is still not an example of which one is the better DT.  Ngata is not a blob of fat, though just saying so enough MAY make it true if you try really hard.  And why will he blow up in the offseason?  Cause you say so again?

Why does Bunkley fit our scheme perfectly when we already have Triplett?

 

Everyone wants to say Bunkley is better, but no one knows.  No one.  It's just the popular thing to say lately.  Just another bandwagon.  Keep on jumpin people.

639307[/snapback]

 

Are you serious, I dont have anything against Ngata, but from what the coaches say our new scheme is going to be and the type of player we want Bunkley is the right choice. He may not be a top ten but he should be the guy we draft if we go DL. And why are you blowing Ngata he had a horrible showing in the last few games of the year. Compare stats Bunkley is more dominant and he was double teamed also.

[apuszczalowski]

I thin Bunkley fits the mould of what the bills 'D' requires more then Ngata (who has been refered to as being a Sam Adams type Lineman)

 

Not saying he isn't good, I'm just not sure he is what the Bills are looking for in their system. They want quicker, smaller, faster lineman.

[Acantha]

Are you serious, I dont have anything against Ngata, but from what the coaches say our new scheme is going to be and the type of player we want Bunkley is the right choice. He may not be a  top ten but he should be the guy we draft if we go DL. And why are you blowing Ngata he had a horrible showing in the last few games of the year. Compare stats Bunkley is more dominant and he was double teamed also.

639317[/snapback]

Yes, I"m serious.

 

Scheme: We have one coach saying they could use a smaller talented DT, and Levy saying they want a big guy to put next to Triplett. They'll take the best available...which is exactly whay the tried to get Picket.

 

Ngata didn't have a bad showing the last couple of games. He had an average bowl game. And as far as stats go....Ngata takes up blockers so the rest of the line and LB's can do the job. Those kinds of DT's are priceless and don't put up the ever important stats.

 

I would't be dissapointed with Bunkley if we traded down. But I also think it would be a mistake to pass up Ngata if he's there. He can anchor a line and make the guys around him look better. Again, if we had signed Pickett instead of Triplett, I would agree Bunkley would be more desireable.

[Typical TBD Guy]

Uh lets see he had 44 reps of 225, he is a chiseled 300lbs, not a lump of fat and he is perfect for our scheme. Why chose a guy that is 350 and will balloon in the offseason.Bunkley all the way.

639300[/snapback]

 

Remember Erik Flowers?

 

Sorry to pick on you, but I think that when comparing Ngata with Bunkley, we should focus mainly on their performance on the college football field. And from what I've heard about Ngata (I've admittedly never seen him play), he's a 3-down guy who made a bigger impact on the field than Bunkley did in college. Ngata is also fast enough that Oregon even had him drop back in coverage on some plays! So just because he's 50 pounds heavier than Bunkley, that doesn't necessarily mean he's not fast enough to be a 1-gap penetrating DT in a cover-2 D.

 

The problems with Ngata seem to be that he has potential motivation issues and injury issues...but I'm not sure of the validity of these arguments.

 

With Bunkley, over and over again I keep reading how no one thinks he's a blue chip talent (outside of TSW)...more like a late-first round talent. Then again, there's the case of Dwight Freeney....so I won't continue this debate any further!

 

I will say, though, that with a team as devoid of talent as the Bills are, at #8 we can't afford to reach with this pick. We need to find the best player available - defined by most impact with least likelihood to bust. So if someone like AJ Hawk is still there with Ngata and/or Bunkley, my choice would be someone like AJ Hawk.

[Like A Mofo]

Uh lets see he had 44 reps of 225, he is a chiseled 300lbs, not a lump of fat and he is perfect for our scheme. Why chose a guy that is 350 and will balloon in the offseason.Bunkley all the way.

639300[/snapback]

 

Was Big Ted chisled?

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

Sorry to pick on you, but I think that when comparing Ngata with Bunkley, we should focus mainly on their performance on the college football field. And from what I've heard about Ngata (I've admittedly never seen him play), he's a 3-down guy who made a bigger impact on the field than Bunkley did in college. Ngata is also fast enough that Oregon even had him drop back in coverage on some plays! So just because he's 50 pounds heavier than Bunkley, that doesn't necessarily mean he's not fast enough to be a 1-gap penetrating DT in a cover-2 D

.

 

 

 

 

Bunkley led the ncaa in tackles for a loss. Bunkley is the prototypical cover 2 dt. Faster, penetrating, but also very strong, strong enough that even the browns view him as a potential nt for their defense. Ngata meanwhile has had several nagging injuries throuhout college. While he does have decent speed for his size, like most guys that weight he'll have the same problem. Wearing down throughout the course of a game. This defense needs quicker linemen not fat slobs. The biggest problem we've had is the sloths who cant generate an upfield rush. Bunkley would fit the mold that Tommie Harris does in Chicago.

[BUFFALOTONE]

Remember Erik Flowers? 

 

Sorry to pick on you, but I think that when comparing Ngata with Bunkley, we should focus mainly on their performance on the college football field. And from what I've heard about Ngata (I've admittedly never seen him play), he's a 3-down guy who made a bigger impact on the field than Bunkley did in college. Ngata is also fast enough that Oregon even had him drop back in coverage on some plays! So just because he's 50 pounds heavier than Bunkley, that doesn't necessarily mean he's not fast enough to be a 1-gap penetrating DT in a cover-2 D.

 

The problems with Ngata seem to be that he has potential motivation issues and injury issues...but I'm not sure of the validity of these arguments.

 

With Bunkley, over and over again I keep reading how no one thinks he's a blue chip talent (outside of TSW)...more like a late-first round talent. Then again, there's the case of Dwight Freeney....so I won't continue this debate any further!

 

I will say, though, that with a team as devoid of talent as the Bills are, at #8 we can't afford to reach with this pick. We need to find the best player available - defined by most impact with least likelihood to bust. So if someone like AJ Hawk is still there with Ngata and/or Bunkley, my choice would be someone like AJ Hawk.

639344[/snapback]

 

First of all say what you want its your opinion so you dont bother me. Secondly, Ngata simply isnt the guy for the system.Plain and simple. I think our line would be better of with a guy like Bunkley. I have been able to watch all the noles games and he was a factor in everyone.He is a force in the middle.

[frogger]

.

Bunkley led the ncaa in tackles for a loss.  Bunkley is the prototypical cover 2 dt. Faster, penetrating, but also very strong, strong enough that even the browns view him as a potential nt for their defense.  Ngata meanwhile has had several nagging injuries throuhout college.  While he does have decent speed for his size, like most  guys that weight he'll have the same problem. Wearing down throughout the course of a game.  This defense needs quicker linemen not fat slobs.  The biggest problem we've had is the sloths who cant generate an upfield rush.  Bunkley would fit the mold that Tommie Harris does in Chicago.

639357[/snapback]

 

 

Uhmm, Larry triplett is our Tommie harris, LDT, what we are looking for is the Ian Scott, who is a Nose tackle, that is why the choice is Ngata. In tampa it Booger that is the nose, that is why Warren sapp got all of those sacks, in St louis Pickett was the Nose tackle. Prior to this season, how many of you heard of Bunkley? He had a great year, but can you think of another DT from FSU that has proved to be worthy of a first round pick, I really have not looked this up so please let me know.

 

I remember the first time I saw Ngata, it was in the High School all star game, where he dominated. He has played well since, and has been the talk of the Ducks program since he got there.

 

oh and Bunkley had a torn Ligament in his left knee that required surgery in 02, and played with an ihiury to his foot that required surgery after the 05 season. So don't say he has been perfectly healthy, the risk is always the same. look at Takeo, a perfectly heathly player. An injury history tells me that they can come back.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Uhmm, Larry triplett is our Tommie harris, LDT, what we are looking for is the Ian Scott, who is a Nose tackle, that is why the choice is Ngata.  In tampa it Booger that is the nose, that is why Warren sapp got all of those sacks, in St louis Pickett was the Nose tackle.  Prior to this season, how many of you heard of Bunkley?  He had a great year, but can you think of another DT from FSU that has proved to be worthy of a first round pick, I really have not looked this up so please let me know.

 

I remember the first time I saw Ngata, it was in the High School all star game, where he dominated.  He has played well since, and has been the talk of the Ducks program since he got there.

 

oh and Bunkley had a torn Ligament in his left knee that required surgery in 02, and played with an ihiury to his foot that required surgery after the 05 season.  So don't say he has been perfectly healthy, the risk is always the same.  look at Takeo, a perfectly heathly player.  An injury history tells me that they can come back.

639724[/snapback]

Good job ..I still think we take the stuffer Ngata. It will be tough though if Hawk is somehow left. Huff is my second choice after these two. I think they are all going to be bigtime playmakers.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

Uh lets see he had 44 reps of 225, he is a chiseled 300lbs, not a lump of fat and he is perfect for our scheme. Why chose a guy that is 350 and will balloon in the offseason.Bunkley all the way.

639300[/snapback]

Brodrick Bunkley = Eric Flowers.

 

Guys that move up in the draft in the off season and are undersized scare me. Eric Flowers moved ahead of Darren Howard that year... Workout Warriors.. ugh !!

[BUFFALOTONE]

Uhmm, Larry triplett is our Tommie harris, LDT, what we are looking for is the Ian Scott, who is a Nose tackle, that is why the choice is Ngata.  In tampa it Booger that is the nose, that is why Warren sapp got all of those sacks, in St louis Pickett was the Nose tackle.  Prior to this season, how many of you heard of Bunkley?  He had a great year, but can you think of another DT from FSU that has proved to be worthy of a first round pick, I really have not looked this up so please let me know.

 

I remember the first time I saw Ngata, it was in the High School all star game, where he dominated.  He has played well since, and has been the talk of the Ducks program since he got there.

 

oh and Bunkley had a torn Ligament in his left knee that required surgery in 02, and played with an ihiury to his foot that required surgery after the 05 season.  So don't say he has been perfectly healthy, the risk is always the same.  look at Takeo, a perfectly heathly player.  An injury history tells me that they can come back.

639724[/snapback]

Tripplett is not on the same level or even in the ballpark with Harris, also who heard of Ngata before he decided to make himself draft eligable.Maybe because I live on the east coast and cant catch Oregon games but its easy to find a 350+ pounder,its alot harder to find an athlete that can get to the QB. Why not draft some fat slob and keep feeding him til he becomes a 2 gap guy.Ngate would be a great fit if we were a 3-4 team but we are not. The cover 2 is built on speed. And we need guys who can play the run and the pass.By the way Corey Simon, Darnell Dockett, and Travis Johnson were worthy #1 from FSU. As far as Ngata in high school obviously there are players that dominate. I played against and with Antonio Bryant, Nate Webster,Andre Johnson,Dan Morgan and a bunch of others.So high school isnt a barometer to match talent with the NFL.