Orton's Arm Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Yep.http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=533826 638535[/snapback] There seems to be disagreement about whether being the next Jake Plummer is a good thing or a bad thing. But ten years from now, I doubt there will be much controversy about whether it'd be good to be the next Losman.
colin Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 on a serious tip, jp showed the big upside he was drafted for (great speed with that long run in SD, ability to throw on the move, ability to launch deep accurate bombs to evans) but has not shown the simple basic things you expect from a starting QB. he can't rally the troops, seems to be flustered and out of control, throws passes miles high past open guys, misses obviously open guys, etc. as fans we might not be able to tell if this guy is going to do more of the great things or more of the bad things, but if the front office who is privy to his practice and meeting behaviour think he just might be a bust they prolly have enough data say so. it might take a lot of time to learn if a guy is solid, but you can often find out a dud pretty quickly
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 There seems to be disagreement about whether being the next Jake Plummer is a good thing or a bad thing. But ten years from now, I doubt there will be much controversy about whether it'd be good to be the next Losman. 638551[/snapback] Again, I wish you could accurately predict the Lotto numbers as well as you seem to be able to see JP's future. You might actually have a useful function in life.
apuszczalowski Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 The problems he was having were rookie kind of mistakes and are things he can work on to make better. To Rally the troops he has to show them he is the leader, best way is to go out and win the job rather then just getting it handed to you. The flustered and out of control can only get better with more experience. Over time he will get flustered less and get his control down when he starts seeing wins and some success Throwing passes too deep is really not a huge issue in my opinion (I'd rather see him throw passes way too deep, then way too short) but this can also be fixed when he gets some more experience and gets comfortable in the QB position. Misses obvious open guys, thats something he will have to work on during practises cause he will have to learn to read the field better. I'm not sure weither that is something that is more of a skill then something you can learn. But I'm sure if he had a few seconds more after the snap (so more then the 1/2 second the line gave him last year before the D was in his face) he may be able to read the field a bit better. The worst thing for him and his development happened last year. He was handed a job and expected to be the saviour. The fans had already given the team a pass for last year cause they were willing to consider it a development year for JP. The coaches and GM panicked for their jobs cause they didn't want another losing year, and then thought we had a chance at the playoffs so they scrapped Losmans development to go for a couple of W's. Atleast with a full season as starter under his belt the team could have had a better idea if Losman was a bust or not. Now they go into next season not knowing much more then they did last year. Hopefully they get it right this year and we see an entirely different situation at QB, Stability
justnzane Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Again, I wish you could accurately predict the Lotto numbers as well as you seem to be able to see JP's future. You might actually have a useful function in life. 638697[/snapback] JSP i have to say i usually want to vomit when i read some of your posts (more of your political ones), but you have been spot on as of late.
mead107 Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 JP is going to have his hands full to beat out nall and you know that i am a big JP fan .holcomb will be #3 ,take it to the bank .
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 JSP i have to say i usually want to vomit when i read some of your posts (more of your political ones), but you have been spot on as of late. 638727[/snapback] Well, good. At least what I'm adding to the conversation is making you think, even if it is about vomiting.
tennesseeboy Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Serious post #2. I'm afraid I have to agree with you. He has been really bad to date. Maybe he will turn it around, but I am not optimistic. Happy feet and a rag arm. 638445[/snapback] "rag arm"...I beg to differ. If there is one thing he does have it is a very strong arm. You don't teach that. You have it or you don't. I think the jury should still be out on the guy. I don't think he has shown he is good. I don't think he has shown he is bad. Let's get an offensive line and a tight end into the mix and see what he has. Holcomb doesn't have the arm, nor is he that good a quarterback. Last year ws a rookie year because of JP Losman's injury. We'll see what we need to see in the first half of this year...assuming we get the offensive line fixed. If we don't fix the offensive line, we might as well have Joe Montana or Billy Joe Holbert in there...same result.
Tortured Soul Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 A guy like Kelly Holcomb will appear more efficient on paper than McNabb, posting better completion %, higher QB rating, even a higher yards per attempt, but many efficiency stats are actually padded by quarterbacking failures. 638493[/snapback] All McNabb does is rinky-dink passes. That is why his completion percentage is so high. The problems he was having were rookie kind of mistakes and are things he can work on to make better. The worst thing for him and his development happened last year. He was handed a job and expected to be the saviour. 638701[/snapback] Rookie mistakes? That's generous. Accuracy is not a rookie mistake. Misreading defenses is a problem that can be fixed, but is definitely not easily correctable. The team was 9-7 in 2004. Exactly who was he saving? Basically, the reason he replaced Bledsoe was the bar was set so low, the thinkingwas he couldn't possibly be worse.
SnakeOiler Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 I agree that JP made lots of mistakes last year, and played like, well...a 1st year starter, which is what he was. He didn't play well enough to win many games. I do not know if he will be good or bad. He might be great, he might suck. This season, there should be an open QB competition, and if JP is good enough to start, he will win the job. IF he wins the job and starts, he will have a chance to play, and hopefully demonstrate progress. If you said he has a rag arm, you are wrong and I discount your opinion! He was drafted in part because he was so good at throwing the deep ball! Some say he isn't a leader...to this i disagree. He showed some flashes that i liked very much. One example was calling out Reed after he ran the wrong route. The other was, when that security guard went down on a deep TD pass Losman threw to Evans, JP was the 1st to run out onto the field and shake the guys hand. He is a straight shooter, is fiery. He has a personality that people can get behind. Of course, being a young player, and not having a lot of success, you can't expct him to be the vocal leader of the team. That would be a) fake, and b) not well received. He has to be himself 1st, if he has success the others will listen and get behind him.
Fan in San Diego Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 JP's accuracy will improve with time playing the position. The more comfortable he feels back there, the more accurate his throws will become. There is no shortcut for developing a franchise QB. You just have to let him play and grow.
ganesh Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 The team was 9-7 in 2004. Exactly who was he saving? Basically, the reason he replaced Bledsoe was the bar was set so low, the thinkingwas he couldn't possibly be worse. 638853[/snapback] Now...Now...let us not JP for the debacle after the 9-7 reason..... May be the #1 ranked Defense should have shown up and not slipped to #28 against the Run. May be the Coaches who kept preaching about running the ball with McGahee should have stuck to that plan..... May be the #1 WR should have helped his young QB out (like a Hines Ward) May be the HC rather than scared and running for his job security should have played a young QB and try to get him through the learning curve.....
Max Fischer Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 I'm going to keep posting this: I'm constantly amazed that anyone still believes (even in hindsight) that JP, essentially a rookie, should have succeeded last season. Look at what this board said were MAJOR problems and need to be fixed: 1. The offensive line was one of the worst in the league. Many scenarios have nearly an entire new line next year -- only to retain the UFA TE to start at RT. Nearly three seconds of pass protection was a high water mark for any game. No wonder JP had "happy feet" b/c he had less than three seconds to find a receiver who wasn't open in the first place. Damn right he's thinking "RUN!" - the good thing is he CAN run. Not many accuse other mobile QBs of taking off when the pocket quickly collapses. The alternative was a sack or ill-advised throw. Holcomb didn't have happy feet b/c he wasn't going to get away no matter what; and as for Kelly's "accuracy" it doesn't really matter if we're throwing 2 yard passes that have little chance for YAC. (See countless passes, but esp. NE game on 4 and 6 - would have preferred JP trying to run for the first). 2. Below average play at TE (likely a must for young QBs). Moreover, lack of a pass catching RB or FB. In other words, no worthy safety valve. How many times do we have to see brady, big ben, palmer or even the "average" team QBs find the safety receiver wide open? 3. At best, an inconsistant run game AND/OR constantly playing from behind due to the seive for a defense. If the opposing team knew the Bills HAD to pass it was tee-time. 4. A #1 WR who rarely played like one and certainly left the fireworks for off the field. 5. Recievers who never appeared to be open. How many catches do you recall where the Bills receiver was OPEN? I'm still shocked when I see another team's reciever with more than a yard of space. It seemed JP or KH had to thread the needle on every pass. 6. At times atrocious and at best unimaginative/dumbfounding play calling. If you agree that just a few of these things occured, how can you not give JP the benefit of a mulligan and a chance to play well on a decently run team? Does anyone really think any other QB could have pulled his team along to more than one more win?
Orton's Arm Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Losman's highly vocal partisans 638509[/snapback] You might actually have a useful function in life. 638697[/snapback] Thanks for reinforcing my point.
apuszczalowski Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 All McNabb does is rinky-dink passes. That is why his completion percentage is so high.Rookie mistakes? That's generous. Accuracy is not a rookie mistake. Misreading defenses is a problem that can be fixed, but is definitely not easily correctable. The team was 9-7 in 2004. Exactly who was he saving? Basically, the reason he replaced Bledsoe was the bar was set so low, the thinkingwas he couldn't possibly be worse. 638853[/snapback] Giving him some more time before defenders are in his face will help him with accuracy, if he's rushed to through or scrambling, I think its alot harder to hit something accurately. He was supposed to be the next great Buffalo Bills QB. They knew Bledsoe was not the future of this franchise so he was supposed to come right in and lead us to greatness like Rothlesburger did the year before.
Tortured Soul Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 JP was supposed to win 10 games for us, one more than Bledsoe. I'm not sure who was expecting 15 wins or a Superbowl last season. Now...Now...let us not JP for the debacle after the 9-7 reason.....May be the #1 ranked Defense should have shown up and not slipped to #28 against the Run. May be the Coaches who kept preaching about running the ball with McGahee should have stuck to that plan..... May be the #1 WR should have helped his young QB out (like a Hines Ward) May be the HC rather than scared and running for his job security should have played a young QB and try to get him through the learning curve..... 638917[/snapback] Absolutely right. I was just saying that the expectations of him were not unrealistic at the beginning of the seaon. I'm going to keep posting this: I'm constantly amazed that anyone still believes (even in hindsight) that JP, essentially a rookie, should have succeeded last season. Does anyone really think any other QB could have pulled his team along to more than one more win? 638924[/snapback] Yes, plenty of QBs would've won a few more games. There's a piece by kilgore today that points to two plays that would've resulted in wins. Everyone on this board is aware of the circumstances. We know that Big Ben wouldn't have won the Superbowl last year if he QBed the Bills. Still, even with those reduced expectations, JP did not succeed. With everything you listed there, JP was a disappointment.
Orton's Arm Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 as for Kelly's "accuracy" it doesn't really matter if we're throwing 2 yard passes that have little chance for YAC. . . . 2. Below average play at TE (likely a must for young QBs). Moreover, lack of a pass catching RB or FB. In other words, no worthy safety valve. How many times do we have to see brady, big ben, palmer or even the "average" team QBs find the safety receiver wide open? On the one hand, you're saying Holcomb went to his safety valve too often, resulting in a high completion percentage but low yardage. On the other hand, you say Losman didn't have a worthy safety valve to go to. If Holcomb compensated for bad offensive line play by always going to his safety valve, why couldn't Losman do the same?
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 On the one hand, you're saying Holcomb went to his safety valve too often, resulting in a high completion percentage but low yardage. On the other hand, you say Losman didn't have a worthy safety valve to go to. If Holcomb compensated for bad offensive line play by always going to his safety valve, why couldn't Losman do the same? 638980[/snapback] Hi safety valve was a stone-handed Josh Reed.
JDG Posted March 22, 2006 Author Posted March 22, 2006 I agree that JP made lots of mistakes last year, and played like, well...a 1st year starter, which is what he was. He didn't play well enough to win many games. Actually, he statistically played worse than many past NFL 1st Year starters - particularly he played worse than those 1st Year starters who were, like Losman, in their second year. JDG
ricojes Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 In essence he's a young Jake Plummer. 638518[/snapback] Maybe he should strart growing the porn moustache.
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