MRW Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Marv cut Parella, a 2nd round pick after 1 season & 1 camp to keep undrafted Ed Philion (bad mistake but...), he's not afraid of bad PR for cutting a Donahoe pick. 636696[/snapback] This really isn't relevant to your larger point, but didn't Parella have a little meltdown and quit on the team?
Risin Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 I love it how completely off-base and unfounded speculation from out of town papers and sports talk hosts saying that JP Losman could be cut has led to fans here as seeing this as a real possibility. Even the most ardent of the JP haters has to admit the guy has proven he can get the long ball to Lee Evans and he's also made the most of Josh Reed since his first season. JP's also proven he can avoid the rush and not pout when he gets benched. These are all traits that I saw from JP, and I'm as amatuer as it gets when it comes to player evaluations. I'm sure Marv and Dick saw them too, he aint going anywhere but under center as a starter this season. Marv said he was going to bring in another QB to compete with JP and Kelly. Please don't buy into this fantasy that JP could be cut. It's just plan silly. 636729[/snapback] Two best posts I've seen in awhile. Thanks for articulating what I'd say, better then I ever could. Yet they named a guy the starter for the 05 season after seeing Eli go 1-6 in his 2004 starts and 1-7 overall. He had a QB rating of 55.4 and a 48.2 completion%, 6 TDs and 9 INTs. WOW, I can't believe that they didn't write him off! Good thing for the Giants that their front office and coaches don't judge too quickly! 636730[/snapback]
PromoTheRobot Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Very good thread...I agree completely! He's had plenty of time to mature and get his sh-- together. If he doesn't have it, then i'm sure the Bills front office will let the axe fall. I still don't understand people's "connection" to JP. He's had 2 great quarters so far...and countless horrible others. I hope he does get it together but if not...Please give it up...another TD disaster. 636683[/snapback] Don't use the word "horrible" to someone who had to watch Billy Joe Hobert, Bruce Matheson, and Vince Ferrigamo QB the Bills. This thread is nonsense. You can't judge an NFL QB in 8 games. Period. That's not saying JP is the next Joe Montana. Just that he never got a fair shot. PTR
VABills Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Joey never got a real fair shot in Detroit, and was pretty much benched last year and now cut after only three seasons. Joey as bad as he was, never had the nagging lockerroom cancer issues. In addition, as bad as Joey was, he has always been better then JP. Sad isn't it. Also, Andre Ware, only ever played in 14 games and was the 7th pick in his draft. Kelly Stouffer Lawrence Phillips Soward John Michels Jamal Reynolds Gabe Rivera Reggie Mcgrew Brian Bosworth It happens all the time.
Tom Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 While I agree with you & Jim Kelly, Marv may not. When he was asked about playing unproven players in games one morning on his WGR gig this season, Marv said you play the players who give you the best chance of winning on Sunday & develop players in practice during the week. Remember how few rookies got major playing time with Marv? A lot of top picks like H. Jones, Fina & Moulds were practically invisible in their rookie years due to Marv's philosophy (and team depth). JP may never get a shot at another 7 games unless Jauron/Levy think he's the best QB this season among the 3 guys battling for the starting job. That was a different, pre Salary Cap Era..... Lots of Rooks start in this NFL.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 There is a complete difference between the quarterback position and all other positions in not only football but all other professional sports. It takes by far the longest learning curve. Furthermore, it doesn't matter whether the current brass has anything invested in Losman or not. 1] Ralph Wilson has a lot invested in him, and 2] He was a first round pick not because Mike Mularkey and Tom Clements and Tom Donohoe were here but because he has first round talent and first round potential. and 3] Everyone knew and everyone reported that Losman needed even more time than other first year quarterbacks because he was "raw". That came from being in a bad program and only playing two years as a starter. So he should be given more time to develop than others.
1billsfan Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Joey never got a real fair shot in Detroit, and was pretty much benched last year and now cut after only three seasons. Joey as bad as he was, never had the nagging lockerroom cancer issues. In addition, as bad as Joey was, he has always been better then JP. Sad isn't it. 636744[/snapback] Joey has had 55 NFL starts. JP has had 8 NFL starts. What's sad is your weeping for Harrington as not having had a fair shot and then throwing Losman under the bus when he's had only half a season starting under center. Every statement in your paragraph was bogus, all the way down to JP's 64.9 and Joey's 59.9 first year starter QB rating.
JDG Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 I guess the giants should have cut Eli Manning before this season then, huh? I'm just following your criteria. 636701[/snapback] Sorry, dude, but Eli Manning has put up better numbers than Losman.
JDG Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Thats true, but the problem in the NFL is there are 32 teams and about a dozen top QB's. So you need to hang on to someone a little longer at the QB position to make sure they don't come on late as the alternatives are limited. As was pointed out Brees was a total bust after two years, and he played more. Sorry dude, but when Drew Brees was labeled, as you put it, "a total bust" he was putting up numbers that were far superior to Losman's. No comparison. JDG
JDG Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Even the most ardent of the JP haters has to admit the guy has proven he can get the long ball to Lee Evans and he's also made the most of Josh Reed since his first season. This is actually a negative in my book.... as Losman has inexplicably been unable to put the ball in the hands of our best offensive player. When he gets into trouble, he should be looking for Moulds, not for Reed.... JDG
JDG Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 A while back, I cited the number of great quarterbacks that needed 2-3 years to get their bearings. Does that include David Klingler, Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, Cade McNown, and Joey Harrington? Yes, QB X was very bad in his first few years and became good, but in a lot of cases QB X was very bad in his first few years and *was* just plain really, really, bad. JDG
JDG Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 This thread is nonsense. You can't judge an NFL QB in 8 games. Period. That's not saying JP is the next Joe Montana. Just that he never got a fair shot. How many games and practices *can* you judge an NFL QB in? JDG
SnakeOiler Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Sorry, dude, but Eli Manning has put up better numbers than Losman. 636787[/snapback] Not true -- not over the same amount of playing time JP has had. JP has better numbers than Eli did in Eli's 1st 7 games as a pro. You need to get your facts str8.
JDG Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Joey has had 55 NFL starts. JP has had 8 NFL starts. What's sad is your weeping for Harrington as not having had a fair shot and then throwing Losman under the bus when he's had only half a season starting under center. Every statement in your paragraph was bogus, all the way down to JP's 64.9 and Joey's 59.9 first year starter QB rating. 636785[/snapback] What's bogus is you thinking that five point difference in passer rating actually means something. JDG
JDG Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Furthermore, it doesn't matter whether the current brass has anything invested in Losman or not. 1] Ralph Wilson has a lot invested in him, and 2] He was a first round pick not because Mike Mularkey and Tom Clements and Tom Donohoe were here but because he has first round talent and first round potential. You should know as well as anyone that you can't go chasing your losses. What we invested in Losman is irrelvant - the question is how much more (i.e. in terms of failed NFL starts) do we keep investing? JDG
Astrobot Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 QUOTE(Astrobot @ Mar 20 2006, 06:58 PM)A while back, I cited the number of great quarterbacks that needed 2-3 years to get their bearings. Does that include David Klingler, Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, Cade McNown, and Joey Harrington? Yes, QB X was very bad in his first few years and became good, but in a lot of cases QB X was very bad in his first few years and *was* just plain really, really, bad. JDG Please. We'll make this simple. Quarterbacks (1) Click on any QB who has made 2000 completions. (2) Note their 1st year passing percentage. (3) Write down the number of seasons until they got into the 60% range. (4) The answer is usually 3 years, and almost never 1-2.
SnakeOiler Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 JP wasn't Tom Donahoe's 1st round draft pick....he was the Bills 1st round draft pick. Big difference...
Ghost of BiB Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 What's bogus is you thinking that five point difference in passer rating actually means something. JDG 636801[/snapback] It would if it supported your POV. That's what statistics are for.
VABills Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Joey has had 55 NFL starts. JP has had 8 NFL starts. What's sad is your weeping for Harrington as not having had a fair shot and then throwing Losman under the bus when he's had only half a season starting under center. Every statement in your paragraph was bogus, all the way down to JP's 64.9 and Joey's 59.9 first year starter QB rating. 636785[/snapback] Yeah but as bad as Joey was, his line sucked, his receivers sucked, he had no running backs, and yet he was able to comlete at least 50% of his passes, in what was truely his rookie season.
JDG Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Not true -- not over the same amount of playing time JP has had. JP has better numbers than Eli did in Eli's 1st 7 games as a pro. You need to get your facts str8. 636800[/snapback] Sorry, but take a look at the defenses played against vs. the defense JP Losman played against. Moreover, consider that Eli Manning was a rookie and JP Losman was a second-year pro. Finally, consider that Eli Manning put together two solid starts in those first seven games, each with greater than 65% completion percentage. Losman has topped 60% completion just once - at home against the worst team in football. If you dismiss Losman's performance against KC as the "well-documented Alex Van Pelt effect", then that game against Houston is Losman's only solid start. JDG
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