Albany,n.y. Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Players are cut in training camp every year with a lot less opportunities than JP has already received in 2+ years in Buffalo. Does that mean that every guy cut is a mistake? JP has been here long enough for Dick Jauron & Marv Levy to at least be able to form some kind of opinion on him from film, talking with him & talking with his teammates. If after pre season ends & Jauron decides he's seen enough to let JP go, nobody should be saying he didn't get a fair shot. 27 players will get cut, many of them with a lot less data than the Bills have on JP. I hope it doesn't come to this, but if JP is cut, and Jauron & Marv agree, it won't be because of an evaluation that was too abrupt. Sometimes, it's easy to spot a bust. If JP is cut, I can guarantee that he'll never be a quality starter in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Players are cut in training camp every year with a lot less opportunities than JP has already received in 2+ years in Buffalo. Does that mean that every guy cut is a mistake? JP has been here long enough for Dick Jauron & Marv Levy to at least be able to form some kind of opinion on him from film, talking with him & talking with his teammates. If after pre season ends & Jauron decides he's seen enough to let JP go, nobody should be saying he didn't get a fair shot. 27 players will get cut, many of them with a lot less data than the Bills have on JP. I hope it doesn't come to this, but if JP is cut, and Jauron & Marv agree, it won't be because of an evaluation that was too abrupt. Sometimes, it's easy to spot a bust. If JP is cut, I can guarantee that he'll never be a quality starter in the NFL. 636669[/snapback] There is a world of difference between cutting a 1st round draft pick and a 7th rounder or UDFA. No one gets cut in the NFL without a battery of data from high school, college, combines, scouts and interviews. Data isn't the problem, talent and potential are more critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art in PNS Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 No one gets cut in camp that was signed as a starting QB with all that Cash tied up in that short of a time. It's all about the Benjamin's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Very good thread...I agree completely! He's had plenty of time to mature and get his sh-- together. If he doesn't have it, then i'm sure the Bills front office will let the axe fall. I still don't understand people's "connection" to JP. He's had 2 great quarters so far...and countless horrible others. I hope he does get it together but if not...Please give it up...another TD disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Avenger Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Players are cut in training camp every year with a lot less opportunities than JP has already received in 2+ years in Buffalo. Does that mean that every guy cut is a mistake? JP has been here long enough for Dick Jauron & Marv Levy to at least be able to form some kind of opinion on him from film, talking with him & talking with his teammates. If after pre season ends & Jauron decides he's seen enough to let JP go, nobody should be saying he didn't get a fair shot. 27 players will get cut, many of them with a lot less data than the Bills have on JP. I hope it doesn't come to this, but if JP is cut, and Jauron & Marv agree, it won't be because of an evaluation that was too abrupt. Sometimes, it's easy to spot a bust. If JP is cut, I can guarantee that he'll never be a quality starter in the NFL. 636669[/snapback] They guys who get cut a couple of weeks into camp are generally guys that were undrafted, drafted late or were brought in to play a certain role. When you're not expecting much from them and/or you are only looking at them to play a ceratin role its easy to tell whether they are what you want or not. JP is in a different category. They guy is a first round pick - a fairly new first round pick. He's also a guy we traded away a 1st round pick for, meaning we've invested quite a bit (we were willing to trade away an unknown 1st round pick for him - what if it had been a top 5?). He was expected to come in and eventually start at the most complex and demanding position on the field. As you can see, much harder to evaluate and much harder to cut ties with until you're absolutely certain the guy can't offer you anything and cutting him actually does more good for your team than harm. Lest that argument not be enough, remember that the Bills have freshly cut ties with a former 1st round pick who was a bust. It would be a PR nightmare for the team to suddenly jettsion another 1st round pick right now - it would essentially show the team was being run be people who didn't know S**t from shinola (that may be true - but the team's never going to admit that). I just don't see Losman going anywhere unless his being on the team is detrimental to the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I bet if we can use JP to move up in the draft or get a player of value, JP will be gone. Otherwise, someone has to be the odd man out... and cutting Holcomb is more cap friendly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 If JP doesn't step up to the plate and wins the job in training camp and at the same time Nall is impressive, I don't think it would matter if Holcomb or Nall is the starter. There is a good chance they would just cut JP loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I still don't understand people's "connection" to JP. 636683[/snapback] ........and I still don't understand people's "disconnection" to JP. Guess that makes us even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfladave Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Players are cut in training camp every year with a lot less opportunities than JP has already received in 2+ years in Buffalo. Does that mean that every guy cut is a mistake? JP has been here long enough for Dick Jauron & Marv Levy to at least be able to form some kind of opinion on him from film, talking with him & talking with his teammates. If after pre season ends & Jauron decides he's seen enough to let JP go, nobody should be saying he didn't get a fair shot. 27 players will get cut, many of them with a lot less data than the Bills have on JP. I hope it doesn't come to this, but if JP is cut, and Jauron & Marv agree, it won't be because of an evaluation that was too abrupt. Sometimes, it's easy to spot a bust. If JP is cut, I can guarantee that he'll never be a quality starter in the NFL. 636669[/snapback] I'm sorry but 7 games is never enough to evaluate any player you have invested a 1st round pick and millions of dollars in. The Bills new management and coaches have 7 games of NFL experience to evaluate JP on....7 games! Even after the preseason they will not have enough information at their disposal to decide if he is a bust or the real deal. They'll have some indications, but no way can they decide anything with any sort of certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 The Bills current management has no ties to any player brought in by Donahoe. Therefore, no matter where TD drafted him, if Marv/Jauron don't think a guy can play-he's gone. Marv cut Parella, a 2nd round pick after 1 season & 1 camp to keep undrafted Ed Philion (bad mistake but...), he's not afraid of bad PR for cutting a Donahoe pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 According to Jim Kelly, because of the musical QB's last year, the jury is still out on JP. They just don't know for sure & unless he plays.... they won't know. Mularkey coached for his job, not the team. Were the Chargers able to evaluate Brees after 7 games??? Uh, I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 The Bills current management has no ties to any player brought in by Donahoe. Therefore, no matter where TD drafted him, if Marv/Jauron don't think a guy can play-he's gone. Marv cut Parella, a 2nd round pick after 1 season & 1 camp to keep undrafted Ed Philion (bad mistake but...), he's not afraid of bad PR for cutting a Donahoe pick. 636696[/snapback] I guess the giants should have cut Eli Manning before this season then, huh? I'm just following your criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 I guess the giants should have cut Eli Manning before this season then, huh? I'm just following your criteria. 636701[/snapback] No, Acorsi & Coughlin both had a hand in drafting Manning & had seen enough of him to name him the starter. My criteria is that if a new coach & GM determine that a guy who was drafted high by a prior coach & GM is a bust, they have no vested interest in keeping him around. How many times was TD accused of keeping players around just to prove he was right? On the other hand, they have no business cutting a guy with talent just because they didn't draft him. That's why Clements was franchised. M. Williams would have been cut regardless, because his time ran out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Thats true, but the problem in the NFL is there are 32 teams and about a dozen top QB's. So you need to hang on to someone a little longer at the QB position to make sure they don't come on late as the alternatives are limited. As was pointed out Brees was a total bust after two years, and he played more. At least this new guy, Nall is it? also has upside. With Holcombe he's as good as he's ever going to be. He's smart, but no arm. JP needs to make better decisions, but it's tough to do whe nrunning for your life. The Bills current management has no ties to any player brought in by Donahoe. Therefore, no matter where TD drafted him, if Marv/Jauron don't think a guy can play-he's gone. Marv cut Parella, a 2nd round pick after 1 season & 1 camp to keep undrafted Ed Philion (bad mistake but...), he's not afraid of bad PR for cutting a Donahoe pick. 636696[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I'd at least like to see everyone play with a real live gameplan once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 According to Jim Kelly, because of the musical QB's last year, the jury is still out on JP. They just don't know for sure & unless he plays.... they won't know. Mularkey coached for his job, not the team. Were the Chargers able to evaluate Brees after 7 games??? Uh, I don't think so. 636699[/snapback] While I agree with you & Jim Kelly, Marv may not. When he was asked about playing unproven players in games one morning on his WGR gig this season, Marv said you play the players who give you the best chance of winning on Sunday & develop players in practice during the week. Remember how few rookies got major playing time with Marv? A lot of top picks like H. Jones, Fina & Moulds were practically invisible in their rookie years due to Marv's philosophy (and team depth). JP may never get a shot at another 7 games unless Jauron/Levy think he's the best QB this season among the 3 guys battling for the starting job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 I'd at least like to see everyone play with a real live gameplan once. 636712[/snapback] [/quote I've seen plenty of 5th rounders who got to camp & you could tell that they never should have been brought to camp, drafting them was even worse. Look at some of the 5th rounders Marv cut that were never heard from after camp-a real game plan would have never done any good for guys like Shawn Wilbourne and Zeke Gadson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Players are cut in training camp every year with a lot less opportunities than JP has already received in 2+ years in Buffalo. Does that mean that every guy cut is a mistake? JP has been here long enough for Dick Jauron & Marv Levy to at least be able to form some kind of opinion on him from film, talking with him & talking with his teammates. If after pre season ends & Jauron decides he's seen enough to let JP go, nobody should be saying he didn't get a fair shot. 27 players will get cut, many of them with a lot less data than the Bills have on JP. I hope it doesn't come to this, but if JP is cut, and Jauron & Marv agree, it won't be because of an evaluation that was too abrupt. Sometimes, it's easy to spot a bust. If JP is cut, I can guarantee that he'll never be a quality starter in the NFL. 636669[/snapback] I love it how completely off-base and unfounded speculation from out of town papers and sports talk hosts saying that JP Losman could be cut has led to fans here as seeing this as a real possibility. Even the most ardent of the JP haters has to admit the guy has proven he can get the long ball to Lee Evans and he's also made the most of Josh Reed since his first season. JP's also proven he can avoid the rush and not pout when he gets benched. These are all traits that I saw from JP, and I'm as amatuer as it gets when it comes to player evaluations. I'm sure Marv and Dick saw them too, he aint going anywhere but under center as a starter this season. Marv said he was going to bring in another QB to compete with JP and Kelly. Please don't buy into this fantasy that JP could be cut. It's just plan silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfladave Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 No, Acorsi & Coughlin both had a hand in drafting Manning & had seen enough of him to name him the starter. My criteria is that if a new coach & GM determine that a guy who was drafted high by a prior coach & GM is a bust, they have no vested interest in keeping him around. 636708[/snapback] Yet they named a guy the starter for the 05 season after seeing Eli go 1-6 in his 2004 starts and 1-7 overall. He had a QB rating of 55.4 and a 48.2 completion%, 6 TDs and 9 INTs. WOW, I can't believe that they didn't write him off! Good thing for the Giants that their front office and coaches don't judge too quickly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 A while back, I cited the number of great quarterbacks that needed 2-3 years to get their bearings. Very few exceptions. I'll take my chances with JP, Nall, and a QB we get in the draft if we just get ourselves an O-line for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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