ICE Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 Yesterday and it was very intesting listening to those that are not common posters on this board (*) The general concensus is this.... 1) Bledsoe is done. They, like me, are tired of excuses. As all know I feel this team has the talent and coaching to still go 10-6. Look at yesterdays games folks. Other than Philly there are NO dominate teams....not even NE. If Philly and NE played right now, Philly would B!tch slap NE all over the field. I posted about the OL's how the top two OL's in football are struggleing. Esp the percieved #1 OL in KC that is 0-3 on the season. Enough blaming the OL. It is average to above average. We are 6 weeks into McNally REALLY working with a starting lineup. After going back and watching tape of BOTH games....Bledsoe is done. It honestly pains me to say it. and Yeah I am gonna take some heat for saying it, but that doesn't change Fact. This guy is done. When ANY player has to tell the press "I am the man...deal with it" He is done. My two cents would be to bench bledsoe, start our backup and the minute Losman can play...he plays. 2) Start McGahee. I am sick of the "His knee needs time" bull stevestojan. I have had a knee injury that orthopedists say was WORSE than his. I was back on the HG Field in 18 months. ( and yes folks take a video of the HG's to an orthopedist and he will easilly say the HG's are as hard if not HARDER on the body than football). That aside, I see other players making it back in the same to less time. The ONLY Way this guy gets better is to PLAY. Hey Tefflon Tom drafted this guy instead of an offensive linemen. PLAY HIM! You spend a 1st on the guy...PLAY HIM! I call up Tampa and Oakland and say "Your 1st next year for Travis Henry". I bet we have a trade in 48 hours tops. We have backups, do the trade NOW and let WM get some time in. 3) trade Moulds. YES trade moulds. "But ICE he is our best Offensive weapon". Bull Crap he is! EM is a shell of his former self. He will NEVER be "Eric Moulds" again after that groin. Just like Andre Reed was never "Andre Reed" again. Let Evans and Reed develop together. Why waste any more time? New coaching staff, new system...play your "Future" NOW! Enough waiting around. We have wasted enough time trying to plug fingers in the dam. Tear the SOB down and put the new on up and let it get to work. Some will say "but what about the defense"? I say What about it? They are getting paid. So what if they have to wait one friggin season for our new QB, RB and WR to develop. When DO they want to win? If we did this NOW, right now...we would be prime to do some REAL Damage next year! But you know what? It makes too much sense. Why didn't we do this in the offseason? Why not cut bledsoe, trade Henry and moulds. Use that cap to outbid Detroit for Damien Woody for Center. Keep teague as a backup then his contract would expire this offseason. SIGN a decent LG, re-sign Jennings and NOW....NOW you have some serious talent for McNally to work with. We could have signed a much better backup/mentor to Losman. As for RB I know Eddie George would be sitting there if we had made Henry part of our trade to Dallas instead of next years 1st rounder. Hell Antoine Smith could have been a backup for God's sake. WR? PLENTY of vets to act as a backup there. I guess the thing that bothers me the most is how a little common sense in upper management would have had this ship in much better shape in just this last offseason. As is, we wait....and wait.....and wait....and wait. It's too bad. A few simple LOGICAL moves and we are contending for the AFC Title by the end of next year. Am I off the band wagon? Nope, never will be. But it gets to a point when you look at something and say "Damn man...how hard is it?" I think this management out thinks it's self. 0-2 is one thing. If we go 0-3 and don't put up more than 17 on the Patsies...we are done. No more wishing, hoping nothing. Logic and history dictates we are finished for this season. I know this bucks what I have said before...but if we do and we do it ugly....Tom Donahoe must be fired and Tom Modrak needs to take the reigns.
DeeRay Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 So now you're jumping over to my "Dump Drew" club? You're finally agreeing that stevestojan and I were right all along?
gantrules Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 Holy crap.......trade EM? Why not keep him and let him groom the young guys?
ganesh Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 Ice, Good post....You have some valid points and some a little off base....The truth lies somewhere in between.....Look at Jax, Oakland, Giants.....If they can win with the kind of offense they have, then if the breaks fall in our favor a little, we can too.... Hopefully with some more cohesiveness, this Offense will come together and produce the way they are expected too....Wins breed confidence....What we need is a damn WIN now.
ICE Posted September 27, 2004 Author Posted September 27, 2004 Dee here is the deal, I am NOT a Quitter. But after a long time it isn't quitting to admit the truth. I have stood behind bledsoe moreso than most. But when I see an 800 year old Kurt Warner RUN for a TD and move in the pocket enough to get a win....It is hammered home. The main theme among us fans yesterday watching all of the games is "Statue" QB's are done in this league. I mean the old drop back passers are done. EVEN Peyton Manning moves up, in, out of the pocket. The Raiders told us all we need to know. They honestly were not bashing us as a team. But Drew Bledsoe will take a 3, 5, 7 step drop and be in the same place EVERY TIME. Every damn time. He also locks on to Moulds when he has others wide open. Yes Dee you are correct, Drew is done. When he comes out to the press and states he is the man and for us to deal with it...it's time to bench him.
ICE Posted September 27, 2004 Author Posted September 27, 2004 Money my brother. EM is not EM of old. He is not the EM that earned (and rightfully so) the contract he got. If I am correct this is year 4 of a 6 year deal. His cap number will be HIGH the next two years. He simply isn't worth the money. And I actually have to agree with Opiewannabe...a guy like moulds with declining skills is NOT worth extending again and getting into more cap hell later on. We drafted Evans for a reason. Let him play. All the WR's have said Shaw really helps them. Keep him around for that reason.
zow2 Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 IS there any other QB who would still have a starting job after 20+ games of offensive futility like this? I wanted Drew gone at the end of last season. Oh, he might throw up a nice game or two in the next few weeks and people will say "ha, i told ya the old Drew still has it....#11 can take us to where we want to go!" I'm actually sick of hearing that last line from our players. We just need a QB right now that can avoid the big sack or int and be accurate with the 10-15 yd pass. Seems like Matthews is better suited for that role. It's really sad when our Offensive geniuses have to dumb down the playbook and tailor make a gameplan to minimize Drew's chances of screwing up for us. With Losman someday you can really open up the playbook...with Drew your hands are tied because he has no possibility of doing anything positive on a broken play. Speaking of Money, Moulds is money. He's still the only Bills players whose really a homerun threat. You gotta keep him.
shagmago Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 Don`t forget about the colts they could probably beat both eagles and N.E right now.....and your right about Drew, he`s as done as any football player could be, He`s the Joe Paterno of the NFL, he`s hanging around WAY to long embarrassing himself each week....Someone should just say....DREW!TAKE YOUR HARLEY INTO THE SUNSET!...ITS OVER!!!!!
CosmicBills Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 Yesterday and it was very intesting listening to those that are not common posters on this board (*) The general concensus is this.... 1) Bledsoe is done. They, like me, are tired of excuses. As all know I feel this team has the talent and coaching to still go 10-6. Look at yesterdays games folks. Other than Philly there are NO dominate teams....not even NE. If Philly and NE played right now, Philly would B!tch slap NE all over the field. I posted about the OL's how the top two OL's in football are struggleing. Esp the percieved #1 OL in KC that is 0-3 on the season. Enough blaming the OL. It is average to above average. We are 6 weeks into McNally REALLY working with a starting lineup. After going back and watching tape of BOTH games....Bledsoe is done. It honestly pains me to say it. and Yeah I am gonna take some heat for saying it, but that doesn't change Fact. This guy is done. When ANY player has to tell the press "I am the man...deal with it" He is done. My two cents would be to bench bledsoe, start our backup and the minute Losman can play...he plays. 2) Start McGahee. I am sick of the "His knee needs time" bull stevestojan. I have had a knee injury that orthopedists say was WORSE than his. I was back on the HG Field in 18 months. ( and yes folks take a video of the HG's to an orthopedist and he will easilly say the HG's are as hard if not HARDER on the body than football). That aside, I see other players making it back in the same to less time. The ONLY Way this guy gets better is to PLAY. Hey Tefflon Tom drafted this guy instead of an offensive linemen. PLAY HIM! You spend a 1st on the guy...PLAY HIM! I call up Tampa and Oakland and say "Your 1st next year for Travis Henry". I bet we have a trade in 48 hours tops. We have backups, do the trade NOW and let WM get some time in. 3) trade Moulds. YES trade moulds. "But ICE he is our best Offensive weapon". Bull Crap he is! EM is a shell of his former self. He will NEVER be "Eric Moulds" again after that groin. Just like Andre Reed was never "Andre Reed" again. Let Evans and Reed develop together. Why waste any more time? New coaching staff, new system...play your "Future" NOW! Enough waiting around. We have wasted enough time trying to plug fingers in the dam. Tear the SOB down and put the new on up and let it get to work. Some will say "but what about the defense"? I say What about it? They are getting paid. So what if they have to wait one friggin season for our new QB, RB and WR to develop. When DO they want to win? If we did this NOW, right now...we would be prime to do some REAL Damage next year! But you know what? It makes too much sense. Why didn't we do this in the offseason? Why not cut bledsoe, trade Henry and moulds. Use that cap to outbid Detroit for Damien Woody for Center. Keep teague as a backup then his contract would expire this offseason. SIGN a decent LG, re-sign Jennings and NOW....NOW you have some serious talent for McNally to work with. We could have signed a much better backup/mentor to Losman. As for RB I know Eddie George would be sitting there if we had made Henry part of our trade to Dallas instead of next years 1st rounder. Hell Antoine Smith could have been a backup for God's sake. WR? PLENTY of vets to act as a backup there. I guess the thing that bothers me the most is how a little common sense in upper management would have had this ship in much better shape in just this last offseason. As is, we wait....and wait.....and wait....and wait. It's too bad. A few simple LOGICAL moves and we are contending for the AFC Title by the end of next year. Am I off the band wagon? Nope, never will be. But it gets to a point when you look at something and say "Damn man...how hard is it?" I think this management out thinks it's self. 0-2 is one thing. If we go 0-3 and don't put up more than 17 on the Patsies...we are done. No more wishing, hoping nothing. Logic and history dictates we are finished for this season. I know this bucks what I have said before...but if we do and we do it ugly....Tom Donahoe must be fired and Tom Modrak needs to take the reigns. 46694[/snapback] If you think the offense is bad now...imagine what it would be like without EM, Henry and DB Lossman is out till week 12. And when he comes back, they aren't going to throw him into the fire. Only a total maroon would do so. He is your franchise's future and he is recovering from a broken leg...you don't throw him in behind a suspect OLine just to "groom him". If he were healthy, it would be different. But he's not. He won't see the field this year, mark it down. So where does that leave us? Oh yeah, with Shane Mathews . He has never been a winner in this league so he is a step down from Drew (maybe a small one, but still a step down). Then you want to move Henry too? Willis does not have his burst back yet. It may never come back...and while he is a capable runner right now, he is not nearly as explosive as Henry at the moment. So with Henry gone, we would have virtually no running game and be forced to rely on our passing attack. Oh, but you traded Moulds, which means that Evans has to be the man. Too bad WRs take 3 years to develop. Right now DBs are reading ALL of Evans routes faster than you can read a fortune cookie. So with no EM and Evans locked up, we have Shaw, Reed and our stellar TE's to carry the passing load. And you think Tampa's offense is bad???? Wowzers, that is an 0-16 team in the making right there. Here's the truth of the situation: The Bills aren't as bad as people think. And the Bills aren't as good as some had hoped. The truth lies (as always) in the middle. Face it, this team is a couple breaks away from being 2-0. Does that make it any better? No. They still need to show up on Sunday and play. But the fact that they played tough and lost to two teams that are 5-1 should be a sign that perhaps there is some hope left in this VERY young season. Proposing that the Bills dump their three biggest offensive weapons before the season is even A QUARTER OF THE WAY THROUGH is insane. Why cripple our weakest unit even more when we haven't even seen them play to their full potential yet this season? Please take a deep breath and settle down. Things will be okay.
ICE Posted September 27, 2004 Author Posted September 27, 2004 What weapons. dude WAKE UP! Bledsoe is DONE. He is NOTHING like his former self. Moulds is NOT a home run threat any longer. He still can't get open one on one. Like Andre Reed...he is NOTHING like his former self. TH? When is he NOT HURT? Both games so far he has been pulled due to some small injury. Folks need to let go of the past and see what is in front of them. As for the OL? It may be BETTER when you can open up your playbook and not be hampered by a WR that can't get open unless it's blown coverage and has a QB That can get rid of the ball.
Mile High Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 Yesterday and it was very intesting listening to those that are not common posters on this board (*) The general concensus is this.... 1) Bledsoe is done. They, like me, are tired of excuses. As all know I feel this team has the talent and coaching to still go 10-6. Look at yesterdays games folks. Other than Philly there are NO dominate teams....not even NE. If Philly and NE played right now, Philly would B!tch slap NE all over the field. I posted about the OL's how the top two OL's in football are struggleing. Esp the percieved #1 OL in KC that is 0-3 on the season. Enough blaming the OL. It is average to above average. We are 6 weeks into McNally REALLY working with a starting lineup. After going back and watching tape of BOTH games....Bledsoe is done. It honestly pains me to say it. and Yeah I am gonna take some heat for saying it, but that doesn't change Fact. This guy is done. When ANY player has to tell the press "I am the man...deal with it" He is done. My two cents would be to bench bledsoe, start our backup and the minute Losman can play...he plays. 2) Start McGahee. I am sick of the "His knee needs time" bull stevestojan. I have had a knee injury that orthopedists say was WORSE than his. I was back on the HG Field in 18 months. ( and yes folks take a video of the HG's to an orthopedist and he will easilly say the HG's are as hard if not HARDER on the body than football). That aside, I see other players making it back in the same to less time. The ONLY Way this guy gets better is to PLAY. Hey Tefflon Tom drafted this guy instead of an offensive linemen. PLAY HIM! You spend a 1st on the guy...PLAY HIM! I call up Tampa and Oakland and say "Your 1st next year for Travis Henry". I bet we have a trade in 48 hours tops. We have backups, do the trade NOW and let WM get some time in. 3) trade Moulds. YES trade moulds. "But ICE he is our best Offensive weapon". Bull Crap he is! EM is a shell of his former self. He will NEVER be "Eric Moulds" again after that groin. Just like Andre Reed was never "Andre Reed" again. Let Evans and Reed develop together. Why waste any more time? New coaching staff, new system...play your "Future" NOW! Enough waiting around. We have wasted enough time trying to plug fingers in the dam. Tear the SOB down and put the new on up and let it get to work. Some will say "but what about the defense"? I say What about it? They are getting paid. So what if they have to wait one friggin season for our new QB, RB and WR to develop. When DO they want to win? If we did this NOW, right now...we would be prime to do some REAL Damage next year! But you know what? It makes too much sense. Why didn't we do this in the offseason? Why not cut bledsoe, trade Henry and moulds. Use that cap to outbid Detroit for Damien Woody for Center. Keep teague as a backup then his contract would expire this offseason. SIGN a decent LG, re-sign Jennings and NOW....NOW you have some serious talent for McNally to work with. We could have signed a much better backup/mentor to Losman. As for RB I know Eddie George would be sitting there if we had made Henry part of our trade to Dallas instead of next years 1st rounder. Hell Antoine Smith could have been a backup for God's sake. WR? PLENTY of vets to act as a backup there. I guess the thing that bothers me the most is how a little common sense in upper management would have had this ship in much better shape in just this last offseason. As is, we wait....and wait.....and wait....and wait. It's too bad. A few simple LOGICAL moves and we are contending for the AFC Title by the end of next year. Am I off the band wagon? Nope, never will be. But it gets to a point when you look at something and say "Damn man...how hard is it?" I think this management out thinks it's self. 0-2 is one thing. If we go 0-3 and don't put up more than 17 on the Patsies...we are done. No more wishing, hoping nothing. Logic and history dictates we are finished for this season. I know this bucks what I have said before...but if we do and we do it ugly....Tom Donahoe must be fired and Tom Modrak needs to take the reigns. 46694[/snapback] yes drew is done. last year done. great post ice couldn't agree with you more on all your points, except for the moulds one.
IndyJay1234 Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 Money my brother. EM is not EM of old. He is not the EM that earned (and rightfully so) the contract he got. If I am correct this is year 4 of a 6 year deal. His cap number will be HIGH the next two years. He simply isn't worth the money. And I actually have to agree with Opiewannabe...a guy like moulds with declining skills is NOT worth extending again and getting into more cap hell later on. We drafted Evans for a reason. Let him play. All the WR's have said Shaw really helps them. Keep him around for that reason. 46723[/snapback] But ICE.... Eric Moulds is a Top 5 WR. He just needs a perfect system to show that... I mean he has to be better than Hines Ward who had a rookie QB throwing to him in a hurricane 9 times for 96 yards against a stout Miami D... Oh wait... I dont think Eric is Top 5... I forgot.. I would not trade Eric yet... I would make him redo his deal. The travis henry deal. I agree but you will not get a numero uno unless you trade to Miami....
ICE Posted September 27, 2004 Author Posted September 27, 2004 Let me add this...fans are looking for "Breaks". I don't, I look for performance. Maybe with someone else in there we wouldn't need to always be looking for "Breaks". As for the truth being in the middle? That is a fan hoping against hope and whistling though the grave yard. Is the TEAM that Bad? No. but we are wasting time on players on the offensive side of the ball. replace them and THERE are your "breaks"
CosmicBills Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 What weapons. dude WAKE UP! Bledsoe is DONE. He is NOTHING like his former self. Moulds is NOT a home run threat any longer. He still can't get open one on one. Like Andre Reed...he is NOTHING like his former self. TH? When is he NOT HURT? Both games so far he has been pulled due to some small injury. Folks need to let go of the past and see what is in front of them. As for the OL? It may be BETTER when you can open up your playbook and not be hampered by a WR that can't get open unless it's blown coverage and has a QB That can get rid of the ball. 46744[/snapback] I hear what you are saying, I do. But do you think there are gems on the bench that can do better than these three guys? There isn't. If you lose one, okay maybe you can get by. You lose two, you are screwed. You lose all three, you will have no weapons at all left to use. You would be forfiting the season by doing those moves. And I am not ready to give up on the season when there are 14 games left...
ICE Posted September 27, 2004 Author Posted September 27, 2004 I think Tampa, Arizona and maybe Oakland do the TH Deal. Yeah I agree on Moulds LOL Top 5 my ass. Sorry folks 3-4 years ago I agree. Now....no way in hell is he even close. I do not redo a WR's deal who is on the decline and over 30. Sorry man no way. We drafted our guy, we have Reed, shaw etc...time to move on.
ICE Posted September 27, 2004 Author Posted September 27, 2004 Forfiting the season? Ok IF we were doing that then why not to gain the future? Why not salvage this ONE season to get Losman, McGahee and Evans the exp they need to hit the field running next year? Personally I would like to know what you have seen from a 1)Bledsoe that will never change and is getting WORSE, 2)A Moulds that is in decline and will never be an EM again, 3)and A TH who is getting pulled EVERY GAME due to being banged up... That gives you any hope this team will finish over .500? The Defense? We went that route last year. Finished #2 in the league and 5th in points allowed. We are right back in the same boat. Wanna know why? Same cast. Same starting QB, WR and RB. Our hands are tied on offense because of Bledsoe and his lack of decision making skills. time to do the right thing and move on.
IndyJay1234 Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 I think Tampa, Arizona and maybe Oakland do the TH Deal. Yeah I agree on Moulds LOL Top 5 my ass. Sorry folks 3-4 years ago I agree. Now....no way in hell is he even close. I do not redo a WR's deal who is on the decline and over 30. Sorry man no way. We drafted our guy, we have Reed, shaw etc...time to move on. 46758[/snapback] I think Tampa and Arizona both know that they will be picking potentially in the Top 10 so a number 1 would be even harder to grab from them. Arizona is 0-3 and looks like a Top 5 pick. No way for Travis.
CosmicBills Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 Forfiting the season? Ok IF we were doing that then why not to gain the future? Why not salvage this ONE season to get Losman, McGahee and Evans the exp they need to hit the field running next year? Personally I would like to know what you have seen from a 1)Bledsoe that will never change and is getting WORSE, 2)A Moulds that is in decline and will never be an EM again, 3)and A TH who is getting pulled EVERY GAME due to being banged up... That gives you any hope this team will finish over .500? The Defense? We went that route last year. Finished #2 in the league and 5th in points allowed. We are right back in the same boat. Wanna know why? Same cast. Same starting QB, WR and RB. Our hands are tied on offense because of Bledsoe and his lack of decision making skills. time to do the right thing and move on. 46765[/snapback] A couple things you are losing sight of, in all respect Ice. First, it is a brand new coaching staff. Sometimes it takes two years for teams to adjust to the new scheme. With our (mainly) veteran offense, and the fact that MM's system is simply a revision of Gilbrides, I hoped that said adjustment would be faster. I still don't expect it to take the full season, but it seems it will take a couple more games. Moulds (fumbles aside) has been our ONLY weapon and has performed VERY well. He is getting good separation, he is making plays while other WRs (See: Reed) are dropping passes and Evans isn't getting open. EM is a one man show right now. If we lose him, we have ZERO passing game. Drew has played much better than last year. His completion percentage is up (even with an obscene amount of drops) and sacks and turnovers are down. With JP not being an option (at ALL) this season, why even bother with Shane Mathews? You can't trade Drew to get anyone better...so we are stuck with him. And frankly, considering our options, that is okay by me. Henry is a bruiser and does get knicked up. But he also has had over 1300 yards the last two years. He has had the misfortune of playing the two best run defenses in the league to open the season. He will be over 100 yards on the Pats. But even if he's not, we need 2 good backs. If we lose Henry, we have one. Who are you going to turn to if Willis goes down? Williams??? The fact is that its 2 games. Let's not cash in yet. There is a lot of football to be played.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 Let me add this...fans are looking for "Breaks". I don't, I look for performance. Maybe with someone else in there we wouldn't need to always be looking for "Breaks". As for the truth being in the middle? That is a fan hoping against hope and whistling though the grave yard. Is the TEAM that Bad? No. but we are wasting time on players on the offensive side of the ball. replace them and THERE are your "breaks" 46750[/snapback] Screw "breaks." I'm not looking for "breaks," just what's due the Bills. They were fugged-over in Oakland and should be 1-1, despite Bledsoe's 7 sacks (probably would have been half that if the refs weren't blind/corrupt since the Bills probably would have run more with more points), just like the Falcons won despite Vick's performance(s). And as for the Jags game, only a moron would pin anything more than a little blame on Bledsoe for that loss.
Alaska Darin Posted September 27, 2004 Posted September 27, 2004 My wife's, cousin's, best friend's, girlfriend, knew this guy that had a friend who was an orthopedist who said my toe injury was worse than the one that ended Jack Lambert's career. From video. That makes me an expert. The weathervane: more position changes than the Kama Sutra + John Kerry.
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